2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dolomite on February 21, 2013, 05:20:43 PM
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What's the best semi auto 308??
SCAR 17 heavy barrel or LWRC REPR?
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m-14
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FAL! Go classic
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HK PSG-1
$13k for law enforcement or military, $26+k for private party... Good luck finding one though. I've been looking for quite a few years and haven't even gotten to see one in real life yet.
Make sure to get the real deal and not a crappy modified MSG90...
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M-14 or FAL are about equivalent...unless you're left handed, in which case the M-14 is clearly superior. None of the newer guns have been debugged yet.
Another alternative is the M1 Garand, which can easily be rebarreled to .308. I'd take a 70 year old all steel rifle over something made of plastic any day.
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HK PSG-1
$13k for law enforcement or military, $26+k for private party... Good luck finding one though. I've been looking for quite a few years and haven't even gotten to see one in real life yet.
Make sure to get the real deal and not a crappy modified MSG90...
You can get a PSG-1 for a lot less than $26,000. Should be able to get one for about $15,000.
Law enforcement is going to get a PSG-1 for a lot less than $13,000.
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HK PSG-1
$13k for law enforcement or military, $26+k for private party... Good luck finding one though. I've been looking for quite a few years and haven't even gotten to see one in real life yet.
Make sure to get the real deal and not a crappy modified MSG90...
There is one at X-Ring! 9k
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There is one at X-Ring! 9k
PSG-1 or MSG-90.........and real or a build?
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Best for doing what?
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battle rifle .................FN FAL
match rifle..............worked over M1A
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Another vote(s) for M-1A & FAL. Love the HK91 (G3), good luck reloading the brass, then again my L1A1 beats up the spent cases pretty good as well ;)
Boomah :shaka:
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What will a psg-1 do that makes it cost 26K? I'm pretty sure whatever a psg1 can do, a knights sr-25 can do just as well.
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What will a psg-1 do that makes it cost 26K? I'm pretty sure whatever a psg1 can do, a knights sr-25 can do just as well.
It can be made only by H&K
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Knights armament SR-25 .
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BM-59
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It can be made only by H&K
true
and HK doesn't think you should have one.
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M60... Screw 10 round mags... Go belt fed
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semi auto m60?
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semi auto m60?
Yup, they made 'em
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Depends I guess on use
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Knights armament SR-25 .
This hands down.
SR-25 ECC for a 16" barrel
SR-25 ECR for a 20" barrel
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This hands down.
SR-25 ECC for a 16" barrel
SR-25 ECR for a 20" barrel
You mean one like this
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There is one at X-Ring! 9k
yep, i think that one is a msg-90.
where is x-ring, I'd be intrested to take a look. never heard of xring before. (it didnt even come up on google maps)
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You can get a PSG-1 for a lot less than $26,000. Should be able to get one for about $15,000.
Law enforcement is going to get a PSG-1 for a lot less than $13,000.
when they first came out, they were only 5k a peice. inflation sucks!
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PTR-91, most are 1.5 - 1 MOA out of the box. The only downside is having to deal with Hk parts pricing every now and then.
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You mean one like this
Damn thats a beauty! That would be my top choice for semi 308.
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FAL.......
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This hands down.
SR-25 ECC for a 16" barrel
SR-25 ECR for a 20" barrel
how about Lewis Machine & Tool Company (LMT) .308 Modular Weapon System? much cheaper and I hear they are more accurate?
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yep, i think that one is a msg-90.
where is x-ring, I'd be intrested to take a look. never heard of xring before. (it didnt even come up on google maps)
I remember seeing a SR9T in the store a while back...it could easily be mistaken for a msg90...only reason cause we can't legally own the real deal..
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Anything good below $4k?
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What will a psg-1 do that makes it cost 26K? I'm pretty sure whatever a psg1 can do, a knights sr-25 can do just as well.
Again PSG-1's do not cost $26,000, it's more like $13,000 - $15,000 depending on how complete the kit is.
The PSG-1 is not to be imported and (new) it won't go to non LEO's, so you are dealing with a supply that was basically cut off in the '80's. It was the first of the .308 semi auto's that could truly shoot sub 1moa (almost bolt action accurate) for LEO/military orgs.
Now there are a few auto loaders that can do that, but we are talking about a platform that came out decades before anything else.
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when they first came out, they were only 5k a peice. inflation sucks!
It's not inflation it's an artificial import ban that reduces supply. :grrr: Damn feds.
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Damn thats a beauty! That would be my top choice for semi 308.
You know me . Buy the best thing available when its time to buy. It was between this or the Lwrc reper . I went with the track record of the knights over the popularity of the Lwrc . Haven't really worked it out to farther ranges yet with the 16" but I've heard of some good reviews . Plus the fact that its only a 1 1/2" longer than my Lwrc Spr .
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You know me . Buy the best thing available when its time to buy. It was between this or the Lwrc reper . I went with the track record of the knights over the popularity of the Lwrc . Haven't really worked it out to farther ranges yet with the 16" but I've heard of some good reviews . Plus the fact that its only a 1 1/2" longer than my Lwrc Spr .
I've shot my 20" REPR out to about 900 yards with M1A ammo from OGC. Pretty decent performance (I'm out of angle on my rail and adjustment on my scope). Tried with standard 150 gr FMJ stuff too, the POI shift from the heavier M1A ammo is pretty serious.
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I've shot my 20" REPR out to about 900 yards with M1A ammo from OGC. Pretty decent performance (I'm out of angle on my rail and adjustment on my scope). Tried with standard 150 gr FMJ stuff too, the POI shift from the heavier M1A ammo is pretty serious.
Nice as soon as kr3 is back ill be up there . I'll try and push it to my set-up limits . I'll be running some 175 match thru it and see what happened . What type of mount and scope were you useing ?
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Larue OBR...Have fun waiting though!
You two above...secret location is secret?
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Nice as soon as kr3 is back ill be up there . I'll try and push it to my set-up limits . I'll be running some 175 match thru it and see what happened . What type of mount and scope were you useing ?
LaRue mount, but no angle on it. Leupold Mark IV scope. Since no angle on the mount I had to dial back to 8X just to see splash. I'm also aiming at the lower 1/3 of my post. Way way tapped out on my setup unless I want to get another mount.
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Larue OBR...Have fun waiting though!
You two above...secret location is secret?
KR3 = Schofield.
No targets other than shooting what's already out there once you pass 200 yds. Metal targets, pop ups, rock formations, etc.
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LaRue mount, but no angle on it. Leupold Mark IV scope. Since no angle on the mount I had to dial back to 8X just to see splash. I'm also aiming at the lower 1/3 of my post. Way way tapped out on my setup unless I want to get another mount.
I got an Larue 30moa mount with a NF 3.5-15 on it now same setup I had on my .308 bolt. We pushed that out to 1500yd doubt the SR can make it but won't stop me from trying
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I got an Larue 30moa mount with a NF 3.5-15 on it now same setup I had on my .308 bolt. We pushed that out to 1500yd doubt the SR can make it but won't stop me from trying
It's incredibly difficult to see splash even with a 50cal beyond that 900 yard ridge. 900 ridge is easy because you have that flat face.
My guess is you'll be pretty good out to there, but beyond that it flattens out on the top of the area and you cannot walk your rounds in anymore.
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Larue OBR...Have fun waiting though!
You two above...secret location is secret?
You might want to do some research on larue obr problems before you plop down a load of money for one. I know 2 guys with obr's and both have problems.
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M1a- for classic classiness
Ar-10-for ergos
FAL- for rugged track record
Scar-17-All around badassness
For the record, I own a m1a national match. Cllllaaaaaasssyyyy.
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You might want to do some research on larue obr problems before you plop down a load of money for one. I know 2 guys with obr's and both have problems.
What problems are they having?
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What problems are they having?
Jamming. Not mag related. Sometimes a few per range session, sometimes a lot. They are super accurate though.
One guy sent his rifle in and they changed the barrel and bolt. Now he has problems all the time. His rifle works better with a knights bolt. We measured 3 larue bolts and they were all different by more than .010 in.
I don't mean to bash larue, I just call em like i see em
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It's incredibly difficult to see splash even with a 50cal beyond that 900 yard ridge. 900 ridge is easy because you have that flat face.
My guess is you'll be pretty good out to there, but beyond that it flattens out on the top of the area and you cannot walk your rounds in anymore.
If you look out to the 3 silhouette at 1500 walk down to the right there's a nice dirt face that looks like a pyramid . In the middle there a nice size white rock at 1530 . That where we play at. Got a nice 20-60x80 leuppy mark 4 to help with my bad vision . Next time its open ill bring up the spotter and my iPad adapter . We can all see where we are at .
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Anything good below $4k?
Once again, I'll say it. FAL. Under $2000 from DSARMS. Love mine.
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Once again, I'll say it. FAL. Under $2000 from DSARMS. Love mine.
SR-25 EC 16" just squeak by under 4k but this was 2 weeks before everything went down
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M1A or an Armalite AR-10T Carbine for me....
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Anyone checked out the AR30A1 from armalite?
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Good question. :shaka: I'm weighing an M1a or a FAL. Haven't shot either though. Shot a m1 garand and I love that, would like .308 and something more modern with box mags though. I do wonder on the cleaning aspect of it. I hate cleaning an AR but don't mind an AK. :shake:
Good post and replies so far! :thumbsup:
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I hate cleaning an AR but don't mind an AK
You have to clean an AK?
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Under 4K?
How 'bout a $600 CETME? :D
Not a great gun, if you do your homework and haunt GB for a bit you can find a cast receiver one. Mine is great. Not a tack driver... but also not anywhere near the 4K figure.
For a bit more you can get one of the PTR 91's. Lots of good reviews on the quality, lots of questions about which ammo it can and cannot fire reliably. Get the GI model for more leeway with dirty surplus ammo.
For 4K you can get 1 for yourself, 1 for your wife and 1 for each neighbor on your side of the street.
No gas system. Cleaning is pretty simple. Beats the crap out of your brass so get a snap on port buffer if you reload.
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Good question. :shaka: I'm weighing an M1a or a FAL. Haven't shot either though. Shot a m1 garand and I love that, would like .308 and something more modern with box mags though. I do wonder on the cleaning aspect of it. I hate cleaning an AR but don't mind an AK. :shake:
Good post and replies so far! :thumbsup:
FAL is easy to clean, low maintenance, and super reliable. Not super accurate though. Mags are cheap too. I have one and am happy with it.
M1A is harder to clean and has to be greased. Some guys have problems with the springfield m1a's but if you replace with gi parts, you're good. They can be very accurate too. Mags are pricy, stay away from the chinese made mags. I don't own one but I have a couple of friends with them.
You can't go wrong with either.
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You have to clean an AK?
LMMFAO! :thumbsup:
Well said good sir, well said :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :shaka: :shaka:
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Good info Justin.
Ill have to make sure I fondle both before I pick one. See which one fits :geekdanc:
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Reinforces the phrase, 2 is 1 and 1 is none...
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=329919466 (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=329919466)
If I had the money and lived in a "free" state, this is what I would buy. Why? Just cuz....
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Reinforces the phrase, 2 is 1 and 1 is none...
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=329919466 (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=329919466)
If I had the money and lived in a "free" state, this is what I would buy. Why? Just cuz....
75k is a bit steep . Hell of a combo tho
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Jamming. Not mag related. Sometimes a few per range session, sometimes a lot. They are super accurate though.
One guy sent his rifle in and they changed the barrel and bolt. Now he has problems all the time. His rifle works better with a knights bolt. We measured 3 larue bolts and they were all different by more than .010 in.
I don't mean to bash larue, I just call em like i see em
Weird..Are these all factory rounds or his reloads? Iv'e heard of them jamming do to case length.
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Currently in stock
DSA FAL @ Aim Surplus (http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1DSASA58CP21&name=DSA+SA58+FAL+PARA+.308+21%22+Rifle&groupid=6)
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Locally, I think honolulu firearms has a couple of DSA FALs in stock well
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Yah but it's really expensive at Honolulu firearms.....
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You might want to do some research on larue obr problems before you plop down a load of money for one. I know 2 guys with obr's and both have problems.
I guess I got lucky with mines never had a single failure but then again I've only shot 50 rds or so...friend of mine was having all kinds of problems with his obr from scratch to deform brass but not any reliability problems...larue, having great customer service, practically rebuilt his entire gun...
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May not be the best, but I love my POF 308.
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what about Keltech RFB ?
http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/rifles/rfb/ (http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/rifles/rfb/)
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what about Keltech RFB ?
http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/rifles/rfb/ (http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/rifles/rfb/)
Sweet. Something about bullpups. :D And that's no poodle shooter.
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I've been looking to get a Semi auto 308 too. About a month ago, I checked out Tony at The Gun Source and he really praised on the PWS MK216 that he had on display on his glass counter. He even mentioned that he just received a new one and was selling it for $3999.
What really got me thinking on buying that rifle is what he mentioned about it having a long stroke piston similar to the AK's being very reliable.
Anyone here own a PWS MK216? Reviews? Thoughts?
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I've got the PWS 216. Bought from tony in December . I really like the gun. Very accurate and well constructed long stroke piston gun The only concern I have is that gas pistons are proprietary and its very expensive to keep a spare around in case of breakage. Mine has a tight chamber and worked better with 308 ammo. I paid 2700 for mine in December.
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I don't own one but a friend does.
He likes it a lot but that flimsy looking piston rod concerns me.
I wish they copied the AK beefy piston rod
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The AK is really just an M1 Garand with the action flipped upside down. So if you really want a long piston .308, a Special Grade M1 from the CMP is $995 plus $24.95 shipping.
M1 Garand, CMP Special (.308)
Allow 30-60 days for delivery.
M1 Garand Springfield Armory receiver. This is a completely refurbished rifle consisting of an original M1 Garand Springfield receiver, new production Criterion barrel, new production American Walnut stock and handguards, and new web sling. Receiver and most other parts are refinished USGI, but some parts may be new manufacture. A .308 spacer block is installed to prevent the loading of a .30-06 round into the chamber.
http://www.odcmp.com/Sales/m1garand.htm (http://www.odcmp.com/Sales/m1garand.htm)
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Or just buy a 308 AK and own the most reliable rifle ever conceived.
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I would say everyone has different taste buds . Also comes down to luck of the draw I I seen a REPR shoot an half moa then diff gun same shooter same box match ammo shoot an inch moa . KAC SR25 ec 16" got my vote but some don't care for it . I say when its time to buy do some homework , go to the range and see what guys got . You might get lucky and have a guy talk to you about the rifle you like dang he might even let you send some down range .
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The AK is really just an M1 Garand with the action flipped upside down. So if you really want a long piston .308, a Special Grade M1 from the CMP is $995 plus $24.95 shipping.
M1 Garand, CMP Special (.308)
Allow 30-60 days for delivery.
M1 Garand Springfield Armory receiver. This is a completely refurbished rifle consisting of an original M1 Garand Springfield receiver, new production Criterion barrel, new production American Walnut stock and handguards, and new web sling. Receiver and most other parts are refinished USGI, but some parts may be new manufacture. A .308 spacer block is installed to prevent the loading of a .30-06 round into the chamber.
http://www.odcmp.com/Sales/m1garand.htm (http://www.odcmp.com/Sales/m1garand.htm)
"the greatest battle implement ever devised" by General George S. Patton
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I don't own one but a friend does.
He likes it a lot but that flimsy looking piston rod concerns me.
I wish they copied the AK beefy piston rod
Yeah that's the one thing that scares me about the PWS offering. You step on the op rod and I think your rifle is done for.
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Or just buy a 308 AK and own the most reliable rifle ever conceived.
I'll raise you a 91 so I can shoot your herd of goats from 3X the distance.
(http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/12142/12220873_1.jpg?v=8CED94AF9815A70)
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M60... Screw 10 round mags... Go belt fed
+1. Not a high capacity "magazine" if its on a belt
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Yeah that's the one thing that scares me about the PWS offering. You step on the op rod and I think your rifle is done for.
Just to be clear, I like the mk216. Alot. It's one of my favorite guns to shoot. This is a very innovative product that has recieved rave reviews on the net from people much more knowelgable than I. Do some google searching.
My only complaint is that unlike DI ar15s, these piston systems are not standardized and have expensive parts which are vendor specific. This is not specific to PWS.
I do think he is massively overcharging. Check out the prices on pws's web site - it's msrp is $2600.00.
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Anybody out there own one of those new M&P10? Curious to hear feedback on them. Looks to be a pretty solid rifle for the price.
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Of the 3 semi-a 308 rifles I've owned (M1A EBR, AR-10, SCAR), the SCAR is a mile ahead of the others as a modern battle 308. Its lightweight, heavy duty, and shoots extremely well. The ONLY downside I can think of is its proprietary mags that are near impossible to buy at MSRP. I plan on getting a lower that accepts AR-10 patterned mags eventually.
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I'll raise you a 91 so I can shoot your herd of goats from 3X the distance.
(http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/12142/12220873_1.jpg?v=8CED94AF9815A70)
I did this at 100 yards with my AK, lets see your 100 yard "91" group.
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Great group !
But looks like you missed the goat ! :rofl:
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.
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I've got the PWS 216. Bought from tony in December . I really like the gun. Very accurate and well constructed long stroke piston gun The only concern I have is that gas pistons are proprietary and its very expensive to keep a spare around in case of breakage. Mine has a tight chamber and worked better with 308 ammo. I paid 2700 for mine in December.
Thanks for the reply Tom. Another thing for me to consider of have a spare part around that can be costly as you mentioned. Darn, I should have considered/discovered the PWS MK216 back in December too for that price :'(
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I don't own one but a friend does.
He likes it a lot but that flimsy looking piston rod concerns me.
I wish they copied the AK beefy piston rod
Thanks for the reply Kingkeoni. Agreed about the piston rod looking flimsy. Tony had the piston rod out of the PWS MK216 to view and it felt and jiggled like a couple chopsticks connected together with rubber bands ;D. Nah, just kidding. But yes, agreed it should be beefy like AK's piston. :thumbsup:
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Of the 3 semi-a 308 rifles I've owned (M1A EBR, AR-10, SCAR), the SCAR is a mile ahead of the others as a modern battle 308. Its lightweight, heavy duty, and shoots extremely well. The ONLY downside I can think of is its proprietary mags that are near impossible to buy at MSRP. I plan on getting a lower that accepts AR-10 patterned mags eventually.
I saw a video of a guy modifying his pmag to fit into the SCAR17 (Another 308 I am also considering). Not sure if it is wise to waste a perfectly good pmag to do that, but very cleaver IMHO.
New PMAG Mod Technique (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUr5OIV3s1Y#ws)
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I did this at 100 yards with my AK, lets see your 100 yard "91" group.
Damn KK! :thumbsup: .308 ak? Irons?
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Damn KK! :thumbsup: .308 ak? Irons?
7.62x39 AK, Trijicon Accupoint optic
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I did this at 100 yards with my AK, lets see your 100 yard "91" group.
Hhhmmmm..............we just might have to have a shoot off my friend..............but I'd have to bring my SR9TC. :p
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Hhhmmmm..............we just might have to have a shoot off my friend..............but I'd have to bring my SR9TC. :p
I actually have a PTR32 (7.62x39 ) that I've been meaning to do a comparison with one of my milled AK's.
A good milled AK and ammo that she likes, are a thing of beauty.
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^^^Arsenal?
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You guys should have a non biased person, like myself, who has never shot an AK do the shooting comparison for you fellows. :thumbsup:.
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You guys should have a non biased person, like myself, who has never shot an AK do the shooting comparison for you fellows. :thumbsup:.
Hahaha, true.