2aHawaii
General Topics => Legal and Activism => Recruitment and Advertising => Topic started by: Old Guy on October 10, 2010, 05:54:14 AM
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I have a question for Admin.
How many women are there in THIS forum?
How many are Active participants?
What is being done to attract Women to this forum?
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From the stats, no one has registered as a woman.
Nothing so far has been done to attract women but it would be great to have some on. Do you or anyone else have ideas for attracting women to the forums? Semi-nude men holding big rifles? Does that only work for men?
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I can't recall ever seeing a woman at a gun shop or the range by themselves. They are always with a friend or significant other. I would think it would be difficult to get some on.
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Hey guys,
Now you see what I'm talking about.
This is a Men Only forum, while it is Open to ALL gun owners.
The question that I have for you all is, What are you doing to get your significant other involved?
Most men that the Wife and I have encountered are telling their SO what HE thinks they should shoot or carry.
I think most men are willing to buy what ever gun SHE wants.
It's just that a lot of you are going about it in the wrong way.
Most women show up at the range at the insistance of their man. Most women have absolutely no interest in guns.
The Only women that I have met that have an interest are those that realize that the real world is Not a nice place and is very
dangerous place for women.
Most women kinda don't want to know or see the real dangers.
No matter what we do, until They realize what can happen to them any place will they really get interested.
For example, does your SO have a plan in place when a Bad guy jumps in the car at the mall with a knife and threatens them.
Forces them to drive out of the mall so he can rape and kill her at his leasure?
Does she have a PLAN?
ASK HER, my Wife does. Wife is well AWARE that once He gets her out of the mall parking lot, She's DEAD meat.
Wife has made up her mind that she WILL NOT be an Easy Victim. If she goes, she's taking him with her. Or making sure
he goes first.
What plans does your SO have to Protect the kids from Human predators or dangerous animals? Has she even thought about it?
In case of an Emergency, Can she Handle?
Mine can. She's from Tornado Alley in the midwest. She knows what to do in Hurricane, Tsunami, broken water main, power failure
and almost anything else you can throw at her. Home invasion? You have to get past the very overly protective dogs first. If you get
past them, going further is Not a good idea if you want to keep your good health. She'll make you hurt.....and HURT...in self defense.
I can honestly tell you, it's a relief knowing that in a crisis, she has your back. After all, it's only the 2 of you and the kids(if you have them).
Who's going to protect the kids when you're out on the job or out getting supplies in an emergency?
With things the way they are, these are Real World questions that the Both of you have to face Together. It's not only a Guy thing.
Your Family's ultimate Survival may depend on her holding down the fort until the cavalry comes(if it comes at all).
If you haven't talked to her about this, maybe it's time you did?
Word of warning, Pick the right time to talk to her and she will be receptive, otherwise don't even go there.
And you wonder Why my Wife has "nice" guns. Expensive? Yes. But, when she shoots them at the range, makes other Women
envious of her "toys". Even men come over to look. She can even hit the small hanging plates.
Nice guns are jewelry for my Wife. She has the nice guns, I just supply the "working, go to" guns.
I think this is something you Guys seriously have to look at.
Got questions? Ask. I don't claim to have the answers, I will ask the Wife and see what she thinks.
Wife really wants more women to shoot with for fun and practice. All I do is set up her targets, balloons, water bottles etc.
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That's the thing, a lot of the people in society now days are living in a sugar coated bubble thinking that the world is really a safer place then it really is.
Unfortunately, "forcing" or strongly suggesting this to women will more then likely have the opposite effect of what we're trying to accomplish. We can only be subtle about it and ease them into it slowly to get the best "effect" (least that's the way I've interpreted it). Ultimately it's up to them when they want to take the next step, though it's hard to predict when that may be.
I've also noticed that a lot of influence from media and the gaming industry also sparked some curiosity in women of the younger generation. While this is a good start, it needs a lot of "corrective measures" because of the bad habits they will eventually form by mimicking hollywood/games.
Pertaining to emergency prep, that is another great idea. Start slow. Start off by slowly saving food, water, first aid and other necessary supplies. Then from there you can move onto planning and more efficient prepping. Once they have a survival mindset, then they'll start to realize how protecting themselves will become a priority rather then relying on law enforcement as their primary form of protection.
Another thing to note that they should (as well as we) need to be very well aware of the legal ramifications self defense will produce.
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Hey guys,
Now you see what I'm talking about.
This is a Men Only forum, while it is Open to ALL gun owners.
The question that I have for you all is, What are you doing to get your significant other involved?
Most men that the Wife and I have encountered are telling their SO what HE thinks they should shoot or carry.
I think most men are willing to buy what ever gun SHE wants.
It's just that a lot of you are going about it in the wrong way.
Most women show up at the range at the insistance of their man. Most women have absolutely no interest in guns.
The Only women that I have met that have an interest are those that realize that the real world is Not a nice place and is very
dangerous place for women.
Most women kinda don't want to know or see the real dangers.
No matter what we do, until They realize what can happen to them any place will they really get interested.
For example, does your SO have a plan in place when a Bad guy jumps in the car at the mall with a knife and threatens them.
Forces them to drive out of the mall so he can rape and kill her at his leasure?
Does she have a PLAN?
ASK HER, my Wife does. Wife is well AWARE that once He gets her out of the mall parking lot, She's DEAD meat.
Wife has made up her mind that she WILL NOT be an Easy Victim. If she goes, she's taking him with her. Or making sure
he goes first.
What plans does your SO have to Protect the kids from Human predators or dangerous animals? Has she even thought about it?
In case of an Emergency, Can she Handle?
Mine can. She's from Tornado Alley in the midwest. She knows what to do in Hurricane, Tsunami, broken water main, power failure
and almost anything else you can throw at her. Home invasion? You have to get past the very overly protective dogs first. If you get
past them, going further is Not a good idea if you want to keep your good health. She'll make you hurt.....and HURT...in self defense.
I can honestly tell you, it's a relief knowing that in a crisis, she has your back. After all, it's only the 2 of you and the kids(if you have them).
Who's going to protect the kids when you're out on the job or out getting supplies in an emergency?
With things the way they are, these are Real World questions that the Both of you have to face Together. It's not only a Guy thing.
Your Family's ultimate Survival may depend on her holding down the fort until the cavalry comes(if it comes at all).
If you haven't talked to her about this, maybe it's time you did?
Word of warning, Pick the right time to talk to her and she will be receptive, otherwise don't even go there.
And you wonder Why my Wife has "nice" guns. Expensive? Yes. But, when she shoots them at the range, makes other Women
envious of her "toys". Even men come over to look. She can even hit the small hanging plates.
Nice guns are jewelry for my Wife. She has the nice guns, I just supply the "working, go to" guns.
I think this is something you Guys seriously have to look at.
Got questions? Ask. I don't claim to have the answers, I will ask the Wife and see what she thinks.
Wife really wants more women to shoot with for fun and practice. All I do is set up her targets, balloons, water bottles etc.
Good points, gonna take that into consideration :thumbsup:
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From the stats, no one has registered as a woman.
Lol! I laughed when I read that. I thought there might have at least been a few.
I wonder about the stats for other firearm forums?
I can sort of see where the women are coming from though. I haven't been too interested in guns for most of my life. Even with college friends on the mainland urging me to try shooting, I mostly didn't go. People trying to mug me (on the mainland), a burglar coming into my house with me still in it (over here)...none of these things were enough to cause me to want to learn how to use a gun. But after many years, here I am, after all.
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I have discussed the subject of my wife taking the handgun class, and she seemed enthusiastic at the time. I try to get her to go to the range with me, but most times she doesn't want to go. (I go early in the morning, the range hours and the wait put her off, I suspect)
I have already partially converted her over from a don't really care, middle of the road lib, to conservative, fight for our constitutional rights, lower taxes, work for your keep type of thinking.
I still need to school her on the fact that the world we live in can be an unforgiving place.
No, I'm not brainwashing her, I just encourage her to think about things logically, and be more self sufficient.
I will have to look for a good class for her to go to. The one I attended was not all that great.
Does anyone have a suggestion on a good class that will take the time to introduce a brand new shooter properly, discuss pertinent laws, types an uses of the various handguns? I don't want her to go to one that just throws a gun in her hand, shoot off a few rounds, and then tries to sell her an expensive automatic.
Thanks guys.
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...I will have to look for a good class for her to go to. The one I attended was not all that great.
Does anyone have a suggestion on a good class that will take the time to introduce a brand new shooter properly, discuss pertinent laws, types an uses of the various handguns? I don't want her to go to one that just throws a gun in her hand, shoot off a few rounds, and then tries to sell her an expensive automatic.
Thanks guys.
I don't know what class you went to, but most of the women that take the LIFE class enjoy it...it helps that we have a female instructor that is almost always there. And she tends to really talk up the women and their specific needs in terms of firearms and general self defense.
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Heavies: Have your Wife take the LIFE class
The female instructor (Kerry)is good with women
HiCarry and I are also instructors with LIFE
Let me know and if I can help that day, I will be there for the shooting part.
I always bring guns more suited towards women.
Afterwards, as members of HRA, come out to the fun shoots.
If Kerry is there, Deb(my Wife), Wife will come out too, the 2 of them enjoy each other's company
and they have fun shooting at the balloons that I set up for them.
If the 2 girls are there, your Wife will be very comfortable shooting with them.
As my Wife is also an instructor, she'll be happy to advise your wife.
Women like reactive targets, that way they Know that they're hitting something. More meaningful for them.
BTW, All you other guys with wives who are "shy" about shooting because there are guys, come on out to the
HRA fun shoots(if you're not a member, Join up). The Wife and Kerry love company. I'll bring the balloons.
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Slightly off-topic, but I would be *very* interested in becoming an instructor. Looking for guidance in that direction.
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What kinds of guns are more suited towards women? I'm not a woman, but I'm pretty small, so I'm interested to know how experienced people feel about the subject. What are the important issues (caliber, grip size, etc)?
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What kinds of guns are more suited towards women? I'm not a woman, but I'm pretty small, so I'm interested to know how experienced people feel about the subject. What are the important issues (caliber, grip size, etc)?
I think it all depends on what fits you. For handguns, 9mm is a pretty good starting point IMO as far as caliber goes. My wife shoots that fine but has a little more trouble with .40. To test the grip, you need to go out and feel the gun in your hand. Depending on the purpose and hand size, you may want a smaller or larger frame. So the best thing is to go out and feel guns. Isn't that one of the fun things about shopping :D
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I would imagine anything that is "sub compact" would be beneficial. However, as far as caliber goes, I wouldn't go less then .40. You want enough stopping power to stop an advance, in my opinion. One reason the Navy went to 9mm is because they don't expect it to do as much damage, which why we use ball ammo to. There is a significant amount of force between the rounds though just keep that in mind.
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Ahh, the caliber war starts :P
If you go .40 s&w, you might as well go .45acp. From what I have seen, it is much easier to shoot for women than .40 is. Of course you could always use a 9mm with hollow points or bonded ammunition. Just my opinion.
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FWIW, the Wife has shot a lot of different semi autos in different calibers.
She does not like the 1911s. She does not like the feel of the grip or the torquey recoil.
Plus, I am not willing to put up with the humbug of getting/making a 1911 110% reliable.
Been there, done that and I don't like to waste my time.
The Wife prefers the "feel" of the Beretta in either 9 mm or 40 SW.
Yes, the grip is a bit larger. But, as she says, "If I like the gun, I will ADAPT to shooting it well".
Yes, she has Adapted to the Berettas and does well enough with either 9 mm or 40 SW. She has both.
Personally, the Beretta seem to shoot "softer" than a 1911. Suffice it to say, some people like'em, others don't.
Again, doesn't matter what the caliber is, as long as it's put in the right place. Shot placement wins every time.
A nice series of guns is the Beretta 80 series. Comes in 22, 7.65(30 cal), and 380. 8 shot 22 thru 14 shot 380(except Hawaii).
I feel that the Beretta 80 seris is a perfect size for women. Plus in 380 the recoil is pleasent for women.
Doesn't matter the size of the bullet. Just ask youself, "Would I want to be shot with 9 rounds of 380?"
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Slightly off-topic, but I would be *very* interested in becoming an instructor. Looking for guidance in that direction.
We are looking at the middle of next year for an instructor class...we tend to priortize those folks that can help with LIFE classes, but we will open the class up if the numbers allow....
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HiCarry - Looks like I get to stay on the island instead of deploying overseas and I would like to sign up for the NRA Instructor class to help out in the future. Need thoughts credentials n order to teach on the island. Please keep us posted!
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Hey Guys,
Here's a gun that I got more or less for the girls.
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/P10202451.JPG)
Smith & Wesson Model 15, 38 spl, ex police gun, complete with holster wear.
The original owner must have had small hands because the Magna grips have been
extensively modified. My Wife is comfortable with the smaller grips, now to try it out in a class.
Would have used it long ago, except I forgot I had it, burried in the back of the safe.
Wonder what else is Lost in there.....
Can't knock the caliber, my friend an ex LA Sherriff's Deputy center punched a BG with 3 rounds,
using the stainless version of this.
Sorry to say, the BG didn't make it.
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Here's more guns for the Ladies
Beretta Model 86, cal 380, alunimum frame, frame mounted safety, tip-up barrel.
I got to use in LIFE classes for the Disalbled. I had a Lady who did not have All the fingers on one hand,
Massad Ayoob also likes it for the same reason
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/P10004992.JPG)
Beretta 87, cal 22, aluminum frame, frame mounted safety, DA/SA
(http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/P1000502.JPG)
Same as the 380, except in 22 cal.
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Ahh, the caliber war starts :P
If you go .40 s&w, you might as well go .45acp. From what I have seen, it is much easier to shoot for women than .40 is. Of course you could always use a 9mm with hollow points or bonded ammunition. Just my opinion.
I would have went with a .45. I got such a good deal on my Glock 22C though it was to good to pass up. I paid 395 for the gun, night sights, a rubber grip, two magazines, and a laser max in gun laser =p. Plus 50 bucks for FFL shipping +Transfer from Florida to Georgia. I think anything is better then nothing, even its a .22 pistol, I would just prefer larger caliber =p. I also think the use of hollow / hydrashock is beneficial.
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For .22 SD, high velocity solids, or hollow points? I would think solids for penetration.
What's you guys take?
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AHHH..the good old caliber war....
Shot placement under duress vs available rounds is what counts for me. We have all seen "that" guy with the giant revolver or Desert Eagle in .50AE that couldn't hit the target if it was duct-taped to the barrel.
9MM is fine IMHO with appropriate ammo (ammo that you have run through the gun and shoot reliably... I think this goes for ALL guns). I would steer clear of ball ammo for anything other than the range. Make sure you practice with your defense ammo as well in any semi-autos to ensure your gun likes that ammo brand.
I have all 3 calibers (9MM, .40SW, .45ACP) and like them each independently for certain reasons.
I like the SIG 9MM in the home (large capacity/DA-SA/wife and I both shoot it very well)
I like the GLOCK 40SW on the carry (decent capacity/not to heavy, ease of operation--RELIABILITY)
I like my 1911 in .45ACP (because its badass! ;D ) )
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Any firearm the Lady can shoot well can be Her SD gun. Caliber really doesn't matter UNLESS the BG is high on Drugs and is
majorly pumped up. In which case even 12 ga slugs won't work unless it's a Central Nervous System hit.
Jim Cirillo of the NYPD stake out squad hit a robber with 3 rounds of 12 ga before the BG went down.
Here in Honolulu, a Large male person of South Pacific ancestry(begins with an S) took 3 good chest hits at close range from a
HPD officer's AR15. "Stop, I gotta rest" sat down and then expired, but not immediately.
Motorcylce Officer Stan Cook put 17 rounds from his issue 9mm in another large person of South Pacific ancestry(on drugs), he was
shooting at Officer Cook with an AK-47. Officer Cook was hit 7 times, either directly or by ricochets. As I was told
Cook REloaded and put # 17 into the Head. That ended the fight.
Point is, under Normal non drug situations, almost any caliber will do as long as the BG has an ounce of thinking brain.
Put it this way, Is there any one of you who laugh at a small caliber(25 auto not includer), be willing to take 10+ shots from a 22?
As long as the woman doesn't loose it like in TV, ANY gun in her hands is better than none.
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Any firearm the Lady can shoot well can be Her SD gun. Caliber really doesn't matter UNLESS the BG is high on Drugs and is
majorly pumped up. In which case even 12 ga slugs won't work unless it's a Central Nervous System hit.
Jim Cirillo of the NYPD stake out squad hit a robber with 3 rounds of 12 ga before the BG went down.
Here in Honolulu, a Large male person of South Pacific ancestry(begins with an S) took 3 good chest hits at close range from a
HPD officer's AR15. "Stop, I gotta rest" sat down and then expired, but not immediately.
Motorcylce Officer Stan Cook put 17 rounds from his issue 9mm in another large person of South Pacific ancestry(on drugs), he was
shooting at Officer Cook with an AK-47. Officer Cook was hit 7 times, either directly or by ricochets. As I was told
Cook REloaded and put # 17 into the Head. That ended the fight.
Point is, under Normal non drug situations, almost any caliber will do as long as the BG has an ounce of thinking brain.
Put it this way, Is there any one of you who laugh at a small caliber(25 auto not includer), be willing to take 10+ shots from a 22?
As long as the woman doesn't loose it like in TV, ANY gun in her hands is better than none.
OG. I agree. Each situation will be different. Drugs (Meth/Coke/etc) require an extra degree of "punch" or shot placement. I read a story on about a police officer that fired nearly two clips of .40SW (PD ammo) and struck the BG in vital areas multiple time during the exchange. The guy was sober, but amped up on adrenaline for fear (possibly, noboby was able to ask him!) of being caught on an attempted murder charge in another state. He wounded the Officer badly via return fire (9MM), but shot placement and the ability to find cover and distance finally ended the episode. I guess he eventually shut down from trauma. Think this was on the truth report.
I personally know someone who was accosted by two amped up meth heads in an attempted carjacking that were armed. Both BGs were imobilized instantly by the exchange of fire, but were still moving after the gun was emptied, even with multiple head shots and center mass shots. Speer Gold Dot was the round of choice and it did its job.
I had a friend that was killed in High School by a shooting from a .22 fired from Luger pistol... range 50 yards..hit was in the back of the chest through a winter coat. Died from internal bleeding. The round entered under the left shoulder blade and went up and fragmented and nicked the Aorta. He took a couple of steps and died.
Knew another guy that took a .357 center mass and it lodged in the base of his lower spine/pelvis. He was wearing a Tee shirt and he still carries this round too this day. The only thing he is carrying is the round and the entry wound scar.
Both rounds were hollow points.
I dont laugh at .22 or any caliber and I agree, any gun is better than none when its needed.
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OK, since we're talking "knock down" ability.....
California Highway Patrol officer does a routine traffic stop and while sitting in the patrol car running the plate and getting info immediately after the stop, the occupant of the vehicle exited and began advancing on the officer in a very aggrssive manner while making threatening remarks. Officer opens door, draws down on the guy and tells him to stop. He doesn't and continues to advance. Officer empties his 357 on him, reloads and shoots 6 more time. While slowed somewhat, the driver continues to advance. Fearing the driver was under the the influence of the drug dujour, PCP, grabs his shotty and empties it on the still advancing driver. Before the CHP can grab his revolver, the driver relieves the officer of the shot gun, smacks him in the head, knocking him to the ground, and proceeds to dry-fire it at the officer, now lying on the ground. Fortunately, the driver slumps to the ground after a few of those dry-fires. When the driver came into the ED he literally hung over the ends of the gurney, he had to be close to 7 foot tall.....scary. Fortunately the officer's injuries were just a nasty gash to his head.....
So, nothing is going to work all the time, especially when drugs are involved. So, carry/use the biggest caliber you can comfortably shoot and practice so you can hit what you shoot at.....
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Wow, that story is unreal. I guess you should be prepared to run after shooting as well.
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Wow, that story is unreal. I guess you should be prepared to run after shooting as well.
When I talked to the officer that night, I asked him why he didn't move away from the vehicle to get away. He said he was in shock that after several good impacts with the 357 and the shotgun and felt like he was immobilized and couldn't move. Good lesson about not letting yourself get lured into thinking what you're going to do is going to work....you should always reassess and be ready to change your tactics as the situation dictates.....it wasn't long after this that the CHP and other California agencies began to change their policies on shooting center mass and allow head shots in similar instances where the aggressor wasn't put down by the COM shots...
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Guys, I think we need some perspective here. These horror stories about invincible criminals are the exception to the rule and not the norm which is why they are such fascinating stories. The majority of criminals will fall down or flee upon being shot. The majority of criminals will attempt to flee so they don't get shot. Criminals willing to charge headlong into gunfire are few and far in between.
The number one concern for a home defense gun should be the ability to fire the weapon safely, both for the shooter and for innocents around. The bigger and more powerful the bullet the further it goes and the greater penetration it gets. So with a bigger caliber bullet you may have better knockdown power against the badguy, you've also potentially shot through your wall, through your neighbor's wall, possibly through your neighbor, and into whatever or whoever else may be beyond depending on where the shooting happens. This is especially true in Hawaii because homes are built right next to each other and are made out of thinner materials and have a lot of windows because of our warm climate. It'd be such a shame for you to successfully stop a criminal only to kill or injure an innocent person by accident.
Stopping the criminal is important, but so is ensuring that the bullet stops without hurting anyone else. So while some people may argue you need a 357 or a 45 for sheer takedown power, I suggest that a 9mm can be just as effective with a lot less liability and risk.