2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: mykdebauch on March 08, 2013, 01:55:59 PM
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someone told me it may not be legal to catch the bus with a weapon? what if it's in a secure gun case or something? or maybe if i keep it in a guitar case? how am i supposed to be able to exercise my right to keep and bear arms if im not allowed to take it to a designated area to shoot? could i ride a bicycle with the rifle on my back or something? someone please help me figure this out,. idk what to do here. i can't catch a cab, i dont have that kind of money to throw away.
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make friends here and catch a ride
where do you live anyway? I'd guess kind of close to kokohead if you're considering biking
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A friend or cab is the only option.
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Moped
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Some info in another post....
http://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=1431.msg32992#msg32992 (http://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=1431.msg32992#msg32992)
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I was thinking about this very question the other day. I happen to have a couple vehicles but I was thinking about the question of this topic and how it might be shown to violate the second amendment further. Since a person without a vehicle is severely limited on transportation options how would it affect the 2nd amendment right in Hawaii when not allowed to open or close carry a firearm to a hunting location or friends house? Isn't there some additional violation occurring in such a scenario or even if I were to choose to walk to a nearby hunting area, why wouldn't we also be allowed to do that? Don't get me wrong, I fully understand why the prohibition of firearm carry for the general public violates the second but it seems there's another fundamental intrusion occurring when not allowing pedestrian travel with a firearm to a hunting location. Since a person is allowed to drive with firearm to a hunting location a person should likewise be allowed to walk to hunting location with firearm carried and thus full carry at anytime would also be the next obvious right. In essence the current legislation says that one must be fortunate enough to have vehicular access to hunt, another giant intrusion in my opinion. In this scenario, the State has effectively formed a class through financial or a vehicle owner/licensed driver class while disbarring poor people/drivers license revoked pedestrian access to hunting when they wish to do so.
Any thought on the point?
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HiCarry beat me to providing a link to this discussion.
You are correct that the bus isn't an option. Pretty much anything else is ok. You can walk, ride a unicycle, a bicycle, a Big WHeel, a Segue, a scooter, a motorcycle, a horse, etc. There are no Hawaii laws regarding HOW you transport a firearm, only the CONDITION in which the firearm is transported. It must be unloaded and cased. So long as it is unloaded and cased, how you get it to the range is your business.
TheBus has rules against firearms.
Various taxi companies have differing rules. Some prohibit firearms, some require you to disclose that you are transporting, and some have no policy.
Private tour buses and shuttles probably have rules of their own.
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Everyone was pretty quick answering this.
Aside from the legal issues, the problem you will have with not having your own vehicle is transporting all the other stuff you need i.e. target frames, ammo (esp. 12ga), range bag, etc.
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HiCarry beat me to providing a link to this discussion.
You are correct that the bus isn't an option. Pretty much anything else is ok. You can walk, ride a unicycle, a bicycle, a Big WHeel, a Segue, a scooter, a motorcycle, a horse, etc. There are no Hawaii laws regarding HOW you transport a firearm, only the CONDITION in which the firearm is transported. It must be unloaded and cased. So long as it is unloaded and cased, how you get it to the range is your business.
TheBus has rules against firearms.
Various taxi companies have differing rules. Some prohibit firearms, some require you to disclose that you are transporting, and some have no policy.
Private tour buses and shuttles probably have rules of their own.
Is there a description or list of approved "cases" in which to do the transporting? Can a cigar box qualify? or Guitar case? Locked? obviously unloaded of course.
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Is there a description or list of approved "cases" in which to do the transporting? Can a cigar box qualify? or Guitar case? Locked? obviously unloaded of course.
"Enclosed container" means a rigidly constructed receptacle, or a commercially manufactured gun case, or the equivalent thereof that completely encloses the firearm.
Note that the same applies to ammunition!
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Note that the same applies to ammunition!
It would be fun to make a vacuum formed gun case that resembles the exact weapon it is designed to carry; just slightly oversize to contain the weapon and with a handle.. Just to piss off the hand wringing liberals....
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even better- make it clear :)
It would be fun to make a vacuum formed gun case that resembles the exact weapon it is designed to carry; just slightly oversize to contain the weapon and with a handle.. Just to piss off the hand wringing liberals....
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even better- make it clear :)
OOH I like it!!!!
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Buy a Firearm before a Car....That's HARDCORE >:D Very proud to have you on the forum..... :thumbsup:
Theres something in my eye....... :'(
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Buy a Firearm before a Car....That's HARDCORE >:D Very proud to have you on the forum..... :thumbsup:
Theres something in my eye....... :'(
Priorities man, priorities.
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Tee hee ! Couldn't resist.
In reality, if I have to load long guns into the car, I sometimes slip them into a long curtain rod box, clearly labeled "SEARS CURTAIN RODS" or whatever.. After all, a long gun in a case still looks like a gun. This avoids explanation to nosy neighbors in my apartment building.
Terry, 230RN
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Tee hee !
Can't show mine, then everyone will know....and then I have to change it again...... ;D
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So can someone explain the actual reason a law was passed a gun cannot be open carried in this state? Was there some sort of accident? Was someone offended by the visual? I am not a native here but I was stationed at Pearl Harbor on a Submarine in 1970's and 80's and actually bought and brandished on the subbase and at the rifle range out at Ewa a genuine Galil UZI {semi auto).. with no drama even from the Marines that guarded the Makalapa gate....Times have changed I guess.
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So can someone explain the actual reason a law was passed a gun cannot be open carried in this state? Was there some sort of accident? Was someone offended by the visual? <snip> Times have changed I guess.
<rant>
As of this moment in time, it's still legal to carry a loaded gun on your car seat here in Colorado, but who knows what our stupid brand new, fresh out of the box liberal legislators might do tomorrow with respect to carry, storage, etc. (Colorado turned blue recently.)
My impression is that a lot of these possible new laws, supposedly "for the health, benefit, and welfare" of the people of this state, like the new mag capacity bullcrap, are purely vindictive and vengeful in nature.
It is as if I, personally, am being punished for the actions of the crapheads who shot up schools and movie theatres.
A lot of the stupid laws I read about in HI smack me the same way.... infringements, not for the sake of safety, but for the pure sake of infringement --as if "they" were trying to see what they could get away with in terms of supressing firearms ownership.
Let's not forget it is a civil right, and I don't see why we have to sit in that back of the proverbial bus.
Or not anywhere in the bus, for that matter.
It's just like blacks having to use separate water fountains and toilets before the Rosa Parks affair.
</rant>
Terry, 230RN
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someone told me it may not be legal to catch the bus with a weapon? what if it's in a secure gun case or something? or maybe if i keep it in a guitar case? how am i supposed to be able to exercise my right to keep and bear arms if im not allowed to take it to a designated area to shoot? could i ride a bicycle with the rifle on my back or something? someone please help me figure this out,. idk what to do here. i can't catch a cab, i dont have that kind of money to throw away.
do you have a handgun? if so, how did you get a gun if you didn't have a car since you gotta go down to HPD 3 times for that and back and forth between the gun store and HPD.
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Everyone was pretty quick answering this.
Aside from the legal issues, the problem you will have with not having your own vehicle is transporting all the other stuff you need i.e. target frames, ammo (esp. 12ga), range bag, etc.
thanks everyone! super helpful. i just read that previous thread. VERY informative! i am looking forward to catching the bus with my rifle to kokohead. but id have to bring target frames? could you explain this please? i think id be able to fit most things in my backpack.
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It would be fun to make a vacuum formed gun case that resembles the exact weapon it is designed to carry; just slightly oversize to contain the weapon and with a handle.. Just to piss off the hand wringing liberals....
genius. i'd buy it.
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if anyone could answer my question further, would it be unlawful to transport mt rifle on the bus in a guitar bag? my rifle fits perfectly in it and i don't have a gun case or gun bag.
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do you have a handgun? if so, how did you get a gun if you didn't have a car since you gotta go down to HPD 3 times for that and back and forth between the gun store and HPD.
i don't have a handgun, just a .22 rifle. a remington 597. i bought it through private sale.
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Everyone here knows the rules...it must be turned over to kingkeoni for final approval
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thanks everyone! super helpful. i just read that previous thread. VERY informative! i am looking forward to catching the bus with my rifle to kokohead. but id have to bring target frames? could you explain this please? i think id be able to fit most things in my backpack.
Wasn't it just stated in the other post that the C&C of honolulu forbids firearms and ammunition on the bus? So how can you be looking forward to catching the bus to Kokohead? ???
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Don't have access to the statute at the moment (real reason: too damn lazy to look) but if I remember correctly, the firearm laws in Hawaii do not prescribe the manner and method of transportation, only the manner in which a firearm is stored while in transit. You may ride your 4 year old son's tricycle with a properly stored firearm strapped to your back to Kokohead from your apartment looking like a monkey who escaped from the circuit but you are probably not in violation of the law. That being the case, traveling between destinations permitted by the law in a bus would not be illegal per se. You may be violating OTS policies against carrying a prohibited article onboard and subject yourself to being thrown off but probably would not be in violation of the law.
As far as the container in which the firearm is stored while in transit, I recall that it must be stored completely in a "rigid" container or receptacle. "Rigid" is not defined in the statute the last time I checked but you can reasonably expect a gun sock to fail the test. The firearm must be completely encased which basically means that no part of it may be exposed. A buttstock protruding from a soft riflebag is therefore probably not a good thing. A good rule of thumb to follow is that if you can visibly see any part of the firearm, it's probably a violation of the law.
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Since we on the subject....going to the range, decide to stop at a LGS (on my way to the range) to pick up ammo. I take my pistols outta my car (enclosed in the case they came in) and walk in the LGS with them because of the fear of someone breaking in my car and maybe perhaps stealing my firearms. This is legal right?
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Since we on the subject....going to the range, decide to stop at a LGS (on my way to the range) to pick up ammo. I take my pistols outta my car (enclosed in the case they came in) and walk in the LGS with them because of the fear of someone breaking in my car and maybe perhaps stealing my firearms. This is legal right?
i think you're allowed to take them into a gun shop, as per the law.
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Don't have access to the statute at the moment (real reason: too damn lazy to look) but if I remember correctly, the firearm laws in Hawaii do not prescribe the manner and method of transportation, only the manner in which a firearm is stored while in transit. You may ride your 4 year old son's tricycle with a properly stored firearm strapped to your back to Kokohead from your apartment. You may look like an escaped monkey from a circus but you probably won't be in violation of the law. That being the case, traveling between destinations permitted by the law in a bus would not be illlegal per se. You may be violating OTS policies againstof carrying a prohibited article onboard and subject yourself to being thrown off but not be subject to arrest for violating the law regarding transporting firearms.
As far as the container in which the firearm is stored while in transit, I recall that it must be stored completely in a "rigid" container or receptacle. "Rigid" is not defined in the statute as I recall but you can reasonably expect a gun sock to fail the test. The firearm must be completely encased which basically means that no part of it may be exposed. A buttstock protruding from a soft riflebag is therefore probably not a good thing. A good rule of thumb to follow is that if you can visibly see any part of the firearm, it's probably a violation of the law.
they allow for rigid OR soft cases and commercially manufactured gun socks, dont they?
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It almost sounds like we're talking about genitalia.
(I'm not signing this one so nobody will know who posted it.)
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It almost sounds like you guys are talking about genitalia.
Terry, 230RN
what's that you said? :P
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thanks everyone! super helpful. i just read that previous thread. VERY informative! i am looking forward to catching the bus with my rifle to kokohead. but id have to bring target frames? could you explain this please? i think id be able to fit most things in my backpack.
Either you're not actually reading the posts here, or you're trolling. On the off chance you're just not paying attention....
1. IT IS AGAINST C&C RULES TO CARRY A FIREARM ON THE BUS
2. A BACKPACK IS NOT A COMMERCIALLY MANUFACTURED GUN CASE.
If you insist on getting arrested, don't pretend that it's because you got bad info here.
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they allow for rigid OR soft cases and commercially manufactured gun socks, dont they?
I believe the word is ambiguous and as such, LE will not cite people using soft cases. Just use common sense. People using soft rifle cases, the kind sold by Sports Authority, seem to have no problem with LE.
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A case or sock needs to be commercially made. A sock needs to have a tag of the manufacture on it.
It is acceptable to transport a firearm to a gun shop,gun show, range,HPD, or your place of sojourn.
Stay off the bus with a firearm and or ammo.
Check policy of the cab companies.
Best bet is to make friends. There are a number of us that would be willing to offer a ride to a fellow enthusiast.(maybe on a regular basis)
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Either you're not actually reading the posts here, or you're trolling. On the off chance you're just not paying attention....
1. IT IS AGAINST C&C RULES TO CARRY A FIREARM ON THE BUS
2. A BACKPACK IS NOT A COMMERCIALLY MANUFACTURED GUN CASE.
If you insist on getting arrested, don't pretend that it's because you got bad info here.
Im not trolling. Someone linked a previous thread in an early reply that said it isn't illegal to catch the bus with a firearm. Ago this isn't true? Check out the thread. It quotes actual law. A statute or something saying its not illegal to bus, bike, or walk to a range with a firearm.
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A case or sock needs to be commercially made. A sock needs to have a tag of the manufacture on it.
It is acceptable to transport a firearm to a gun shop,gun show, range,HPD, or your place of sojourn.
Stay off the bus with a firearm and or ammo.
Check policy of the cab companies.
Best bet is to make friends. There are a number of us that would be willing to offer a ride to a fellow enthusiast.(maybe on a regular basis)
ok i see. so the bus is off limits because of C&C rules? damn. the problem is i live in kalihi so its kind of far. i would probably have to bicycle there. anyway i found the guys quote
Colt808 :
Re: Firearm transportation without a car?
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2011, 10:50:59 PM »
Quote
Not sure what gave you the idea that a vehicle is needed. HRS just requires it be unloaded and in an enclosed container while being transported between A and B. How do you get from A to B? Walk, bike, bus, or drive that is really up to you, as long as you don't violate other laws that may apply.
As far as brown paper wrapping goes, that does not meet the requirements for approved transport (a rigidly constructed receptacle).
thanks for all the help guys, stopped me from making a dumb mistake taking my rifle on a bus haha. i was hoping it wasn't unlawful to do so.
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It would be fun to make a vacuum formed gun case that resembles the exact weapon it is designed to carry; just slightly oversize to contain the weapon and with a handle.. Just to piss off the hand wringing liberals....
Better yet, use your wife's panty hose and call it a gun sock. When they try to cite you, tell them its a commercially made bag and show them the label that says, "Sheers."
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Why would you have a rifle before having a car? Seems like a car is a more needed commodity.
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Why would you have a rifle before having a car? Seems like a car is a more needed commodity.
If i was a thinking about being a new gun owner, i would have been very happy in my decision months ago to invest in a firearm instead of a car.
At my old job, i used to catch bus and load up my bicycle. Takes a while longer, but allowed me to save money. Free bus pass from school and $50 bike from friend. Priceless workout every day. I did/do have a vehicle though. Also before It took a long time to save up for a firearm before the crazyness. Now its taking twice as long. If i had the foresight, i would have sold my car pre election/panic buying, used the money to buy firearms i really want. Maybe grab a few extra, sell those off and buy another car. win-win all around. Too bad my crystal ball doesnt work that great.
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I wish we had trains here. I'd sell my car and just ride it to save money
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I believe the word is ambiguous and as such, LE will not cite people using soft cases. Just use common sense. People using soft rifle cases, the kind sold by Sports Authority, seem to have no problem with LE.
By letter of the law, soft cases and commercially made gun socks comply with the law, because of that little word "or" in the middle of the statute.
Whether or not the policeman agrees is different.
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Either you're not actually reading the posts here, or you're trolling. On the off chance you're just not paying attention....
1. IT IS AGAINST C&C RULES TO CARRY A FIREARM ON THE BUS
2. A BACKPACK IS NOT A COMMERCIALLY MANUFACTURED GUN CASE.
If you insist on getting arrested, don't pretend that it's because you got bad info here.
1. Do you have proof, a policy, anything like that to demonstrate this?
2. They have backpack gun cases. Not only that, but it also includes items that are " the equivalent thereof that completely encloses the firearm." What's the difference between my range bag, and a backpack? (Answer: where the straps are placed).
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A sock needs to have a tag of the manufacture on it. (Says where?)
Stay off the bus with a firearm and or ammo. (Or, What????)
Check policy of the cab companies. (Who cares?)
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Here is a breakdown of Chapter 00 with the:
RULES AND REGULATIONS RELATING TO ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEDURES FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION SERVICES, CITY AND COUNTY OF HONOLULU
Subchapter 3: Activities Prohibited on Public Conveyances
§00-00-21 Activities prohibited on special transit service vehicles. (which appears to also generally apply to other transit service vehicles -CB).
(Relevant section)
(5) Carrying or possessing any flammable, combustible, explosive, corrosive, or highly
toxic liquid or other substance, article or material which is likely to cause harm to others or
to emit any foul or noxious dust, mist, fume, gas, vapor, or odor; provided that nothing
contained in this subdivision shall be construed as prohibiting a person from carrying or
possessing any match or any cigar, cigarette, or pipe lighter, which is not lighted or
smoldering;
Which breaks down as:
Carrying or possessing any flammable, combustible, explosive, corrosive, or highly Toxic liquid;
Carrying or possessing any substance, article or material which is likely to cause harm to others;
Carrying or possessing any substance, article or material which is likely to emit any foul or noxious dust, mist, fume, gas, vapor, or odor.
Lastly, you are not required to disclose that you have a firearm to anyone; you are not required to show your items to the bus driver; you are not required to open a case, bag, or other personal belongings.
And, presence of a gun case is not probable cause that there is a firearm present; the mere presence of gun in and of itself is not probable cause for a search or detainment; and, you could be first up on a Federal lawsuit against TheBus if they are indeed being stupid!
ANyways, this is just how I read it.
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do you guys think i can use my maxpedition jumbo versipack to transport my handgun ?
put the handgun unloaded in the zippered handgun pocket and put the mags in a different pocket
and use one of these bags to walk to hpd
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa275/g4z808/0412k_6_detail_zps380a576a.jpg)
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My info for a gun sock having a manufactures tag on it came from the pistol course I took.
Trying to use public transit with ammo or a firearm.....can't say what might happen. If a person wants to push their luck, not knowing the rules...go for it.
Being informed and doing some research goes a long way.
That's all I have to say about that.
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How's this for covert
(http://images2.opticsplanet.com/755-405-ffffff/opplanet-tacprogear-tactical-rifle-case-main.jpg)
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Or this...