2aHawaii
General Topics => Legal and Activism => Topic started by: HiCarry on March 11, 2013, 10:53:43 AM
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I wanted to pass along a few words of encouragement and also something I heard from one of our "friendly" legislators.
First, the amount of participation in this years legislature session has been fantastic. The response to requests for testimony, to participate in gatherings, and to in general, get involved, has been the reason for our successes this year. So, thanks to all that have helped out so far.
I also wanted to pass along something that was said about that participation by one of "our" legislators. They said we have the antigun folks at the Capitol are "scared" and they are afraid of the numbers and vocalness of the "gun" crowd. So give yourselves a hand for all your efforts.
That being said, this isn't over. At this time the only piece of legislation still out there is SB69. And, now that we have "their" attention, we need to make sure that we don't let up. Just think of the possibilities: Next session the antis are too afraid to introduce any "bad" bills. Without any bad bills to deal with, we can focus all of our energies and attention to getting concealed carry passed. The bottom line is that our efforts have made a real impact this year and we need to keep up the efforts so that we maintain the momentum next year, and the following year......this is not a sprint, but a marathon. We have to plan and prepare not only for this year, but the next year...and the next......
Thanks to all of you that made this possible!!
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Nice! :thumbsup:
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Awesome news. :geekdanc:
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I wanted to pass along a few words of encouragement and also something I heard from one of our "friendly" legislators.
First, the amount of participation in this years legislature session has been fantastic. The response to requests for testimony, to participate in gatherings, and to in general, get involved, has been the reason for our successes this year. So, thanks to all that have helped out so far.
I also wanted to pass along something that was said about that participation by one of "our" legislators. They said we have the antigun folks at the Capitol are "scared" and they are afraid of the numbers and vocalness of the "gun" crowd. So give yourselves a hand for all your efforts.
That being said, this isn't over. At this time the only piece of legislation still out there is SB69. And, now that we have "their" attention, we need to make sure that we don't let up. Just think of the possibilities: Next session the antis are too afraid to introduce any "bad" bills. Without any bad bills to deal with, we can focus all of our energies and attention to getting concealed carry passed. The bottom line is that our efforts have made a real impact this year and we need to keep up the efforts so that we maintain the momentum next year, and the following year......this is not a sprint, but a marathon. We have to plan and prepare not only for this year, but the next year...and the next......
Thanks to all of you that made this possible!!
Thanks for the update HiCarry. Great too finally hear some positive news. Good job everyeone.
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Hawaii's general resistance to change is working for us in this case. As we shift to trying to pass better carry laws and whatnot it will shift back to working against us.
Its ~good~ that the members of the legislature have recognized that we are serious about retaining (what is left of) our 2nd amendment rights. In most cases our arguments are well articulated and make sense, too.
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we need to keep up the pressure and momentum, but this is great news
I wanted to pass along a few words of encouragement and also something I heard from one of our "friendly" legislators.
First, the amount of participation in this years legislature session has been fantastic. The response to requests for testimony, to participate in gatherings, and to in general, get involved, has been the reason for our successes this year. So, thanks to all that have helped out so far.
I also wanted to pass along something that was said about that participation by one of "our" legislators. They said we have the antigun folks at the Capitol are "scared" and they are afraid of the numbers and vocalness of the "gun" crowd. So give yourselves a hand for all your efforts.
That being said, this isn't over. At this time the only piece of legislation still out there is SB69. And, now that we have "their" attention, we need to make sure that we don't let up. Just think of the possibilities: Next session the antis are too afraid to introduce any "bad" bills. Without any bad bills to deal with, we can focus all of our energies and attention to getting concealed carry passed. The bottom line is that our efforts have made a real impact this year and we need to keep up the efforts so that we maintain the momentum next year, and the following year......this is not a sprint, but a marathon. We have to plan and prepare not only for this year, but the next year...and the next......
Thanks to all of you that made this possible!!
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Good Job everyone :thumbsup:
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now to get them to research how much the gun registry costs and how many crimes it has prevented to see just how many tax dollars are wasted that could go to building the all important monorail.
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Thank you for the update HiCarry, that's good news.
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now to get them to research how much the gun registry costs and how many crimes it has prevented to see just how many tax dollars are wasted that could go to building the all important monorail.
im pretty sure we know a rough estimate of the answer to your last part.
hint: it starts with a Z.
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im pretty sure we know a rough estimate of the answer to your last part.
hint: it starts with a Z.
Zillions??? I think that's a bit of a high estimate.
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Good job. I believe that with all the anti-gun lies people are really looking for facts. The gun community articulate what we do and know as facts very well. People , especially non-partisan are seeing the scam of the liberal dems for what they are, scams. Control. There might be a culture shift in our direction, with all the anti-american policies this president has been spewing. Not to mention nancy pelosi's intellect??? AND the anti-military stance policies of this administration??? Either way, lets not give up and kick a$$.
Pastor Dennis
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now to get them to research how much the gun registry costs and how many crimes it has prevented to see just how many tax dollars are wasted that could go to building the all important monorail.
While we don't have any concrete evidence, we know from former HPD officers familiar with the issues, that the gun registry in Hawaii has never (I'm not real receptive to such absolutes, and would think that it could have been helpful infrequently....) been used to solve a crime. Not sure how we could go about trying to prove or disprove that conclusion, but it would be interesting to find out.....
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Good job. I believe that with all the anti-gun lies people are really looking for facts. The gun community articulate what we do and know as facts very well. People , especially non-partisan are seeing the scam of the liberal dems for what they are, scams. Control. There might be a culture shift in our direction, with all the anti-american policies this president has been spewing. Not to mention nancy pelosi's intellect??? AND the anti-military stance policies of this administration??? Either way, lets not give up and kick a$$.
Pastor Dennis
I don't think there is a "culture shift" but rather more participation by those gun owners that usually don't get involved. Hawaii is a great example. Do you really think there is a "culture shift" here in regards to guns? I don't, at least not on a grand scale. We may be reaching a few more people, but not enough to be called a culture shift. Look at the legislative arena here this year. In the past we'd be lucky to have 10-12 pieces of testimony sent in for a bill. Now, we're getting hundreds. Which, while amazing and quite effective, is still low. We should be able to flood them with THOUSANDS of pieces of testimony. If there is any culture shift, it is from "our" side as gun owners begin to realize that they need to actively participate in the process. No longer can they sit idly by and expect others to take care of business.
With that said, I appreciate the efforts of everyone who have helped out. As others have said, we need to be careful to avoid having that pervasive apathy creep back in....it is, IMHO, the reason we are in this position now. Back in the mid-80's there was an attempt to ban handguns and charge huge fees to register guns. Gun owners came out en mass to oppose these bills, and when they won, all those gun owners faded back into the shadows and stopped being active in preserving our gun rights. We must do all we can to prevent that from happening now. We are poised between two possibilities: One is the possibility that Obama and his highly effective campaign mechanism will successfully push his anti-gun agenda. Or two, gun owners can remain vigilant and active, capitalizing on the fact that we've been successful in legal challenges that have now positioned us well to continue regaining our lost rights. It really is up to us.
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well said, hicarry
hopefully people will pay attention and keep active thru sites like this
I don't think there is a "culture shift" but rather more participation by those gun owners that usually don't get involved. Hawaii is a great example. Do you really think there is a "culture shift" here in regards to guns? I don't, at least not on a grand scale. We may be reaching a few more people, but not enough to be called a culture shift. Look at the legislative arena here this year. In the past we'd be lucky to have 10-12 pieces of testimony sent in for a bill. Now, we're getting hundreds. Which, while amazing and quite effective, is still low. We should be able to flood them with THOUSANDS of pieces of testimony. If there is any culture shift, it is from "our" side as gun owners begin to realize that they need to actively participate in the process. No longer can they sit idly by and expect others to take care of business.
With that said, I appreciate the efforts of everyone who have helped out. As others have said, we need to be careful to avoid having that pervasive apathy creep back in....it is, IMHO, the reason we are in this position now. Back in the mid-80's there was an attempt to ban handguns and charge huge fees to register guns. Gun owners came out en mass to oppose these bills, and when they won, all those gun owners faded back into the shadows and stopped being active in preserving our gun rights. We must do all we can to prevent that from happening now. We are poised between two possibilities: One is the possibility that Obama and his highly effective campaign mechanism will successfully push his anti-gun agenda. Or two, gun owners can remain vigilant and active, capitalizing on the fact that we've been successful in legal challenges that have now positioned us well to continue regaining our lost rights. It really is up to us.
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While we don't have any concrete evidence, we know from former HPD officers familiar with the issues, that the gun registry in Hawaii has never (I'm not real receptive to such absolutes, and would think that it could have been helpful infrequently....) been used to solve a crime. Not sure how we could go about trying to prove or disprove that conclusion, but it would be interesting to find out.....
if you really think about it, it isnt THAT unlikely that its never been used.
if you think about how many gun crimes we have in hawaii, its very low compared to many places in the US. it could be that there just hasnt really been an opportunity to use it.
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It is very satisfying to hear that being active, submitting testimony, protesting can actually effect the legislature. My feeling when the session opened this year was that even though the legislature will probably ignore us, I'm not going down without a fight.
This board is a huge service and a rallying point for gun owners state wide. It is the primary way I get my information. I have passed 2ahawaii on to people in line at HPD more times than i can count. If more people new about 2ahawaii, I think we'd see even greater political activism. Perhaps a printable flier that members could hand out at the gunshow and HPD would help....
Thanks for the update and positive news
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if you really think about it, it isnt THAT unlikely that its never been used.
if you think about how many gun crimes we have in hawaii, its very low compared to many places in the US. it could be that there just hasnt really been an opportunity to use it.
If you believe the hype from those that support gun registration for the purposes of solving gun crime, you'd hear how easily, and frequently, gun databases are used to solve crime. In reality, that just isn't so. If you review the gun crimes we do have here in Hawaii, you'd see that the vast majority are committed using unregistered guns...if the majority of crime guns aren't registered, how exactly is the registration database supposed to help?
What we need is a realistic cost analysis of the overall system, and compare that to the actual number of times the database has been used to successfully solve a crime. That way we can evaluate whether those limited funds are doing what the legislators intended, i.e., solve gun crime. If it isn't, then not only is it a cumbersome and archaic bureaucratic system that only law abiding citizens comply with, but a complete waste of money on a system that isn't doing what it's supposed to. You'd think that in this era of financial woes, the opportunity to eliminate a costly system such as this (assuming it isn't cost effective) would be a welcome chance to reduce spending without affecting the delivery of needed government services....oh wait, this is Hawaii. What was I thinking......
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If you believe the hype from those that support gun registration for the purposes of solving gun crime, you'd hear how easily, and frequently, gun databases are used to solve crime. In reality, that just isn't so. If you review the gun crimes we do have here in Hawaii, you'd see that the vast majority are committed using unregistered guns...if the majority of crime guns aren't registered, how exactly is the registration database supposed to help?
What we need is a realistic cost analysis of the overall system, and compare that to the actual number of times the database has been used to successfully solve a crime. That way we can evaluate whether those limited funds are doing what the legislators intended, i.e., solve gun crime. If it isn't, then not only is it a cumbersome and archaic bureaucratic system that only law abiding citizens comply with, but a complete waste of money on a system that isn't doing what it's supposed to. You'd think that in this era of financial woes, the opportunity to eliminate a costly system such as this (assuming it isn't cost effective) would be a welcome chance to reduce spending without affecting the delivery of needed government services....oh wait, this is Hawaii. What was I thinking......
Statistics, real facts??!! :rofl:
Do we really think that the people of Hawaii would believe those things when we have Hawaii 5-0 and CSI to watch and see them solve crimes in an hour or less? Without a gun database they might have to stretch that into a mini series!
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If you believe the hype from those that support gun registration for the purposes of solving gun crime, you'd hear how easily, and frequently, gun databases are used to solve crime. In reality, that just isn't so. If you review the gun crimes we do have here in Hawaii, you'd see that the vast majority are committed using unregistered guns...if the majority of crime guns aren't registered, how exactly is the registration database supposed to help?
What we need is a realistic cost analysis of the overall system, and compare that to the actual number of times the database has been used to successfully solve a crime. That way we can evaluate whether those limited funds are doing what the legislators intended, i.e., solve gun crime. If it isn't, then not only is it a cumbersome and archaic bureaucratic system that only law abiding citizens comply with, but a complete waste of money on a system that isn't doing what it's supposed to. You'd think that in this era of financial woes, the opportunity to eliminate a costly system such as this (assuming it isn't cost effective) would be a welcome chance to reduce spending without affecting the delivery of needed government services....oh wait, this is Hawaii. What was I thinking......
can you imagine not having to register?
just the one trip for the permitting...