2aHawaii
Tools and Uses => Firearms and Accessories => Topic started by: Aiea78 on March 24, 2013, 12:34:41 AM
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Querying the membership here on what's the favorite AR triggers!
Feel free to expound on your choices and share the knowledge or just vote. I'm just wondering since I spent the better part of this evening dealing with an install that went smoothly up until the function test. The dang thing wouldn't reset and just dropped the hammer each and every time. Easy to see how it will double and possibly dump the whole mag too - No good! I have 2 so swapped for the other and it's ok now but still concerning to me as the thing wears with use. FWIW it's a "QMS" which is basically a mil spec that's been breathed on slightly by a well known smith. One's been breathed on too much so it's going back next week.
I'm thinking of eventually going drop in, especially since going in a polymer lower. I think will be better to avoid issues with flex as I saw some with the hammer pin not fully spanning the lower which led to the hammer sweeping cockeye'd. Worried about the pins walking out too. A KNS kit won't really work on this lower as it is not flat sided or at least will look funny? I figure it out.
So my initial vote will go Timney for drop in and RRA for traditional and good ole mil spec.
What's your take on it?
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I use 3 different triggers in 3 New Frontier Armory Lowers I use for testing.
I am listing them in the order I prefer. I also get the best grouping in this order.
1. Composite Trigger 4.5 lbs consistant pull 8000+ rounds never an issue except with 762x39 Tula or Wolf, everything else OK
2. RRA 2 Stage reworked 2/2.5 lbs
3. Bushmaster Trigger reworked 3.75 lbs
I know lots of guys dont like the Composite Trigger groups. I think it is just the idea of it.
If I don't tell them when they shoot it they dont know.....
I tried Timney's they are great but cost is an issue and didn't fare better in my testing.
Geisseles are great also
Bottom line its all how you use it! and what can you afford.
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What exactly is a Composite Trigger group, SpeedTek?
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New Frontiers trigger group is a mixture of plastics. Hence polymer composite
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Used USGI triggerr for a while, then decided to spoil myself with a Geissele and haven't had a different trigger group since. I have the G2, SSA-E, and SD-C and can't be happier. With that said I tried the composite triggers SpeedTech speaks of and they really are nice. Clean break. Do you sell those as a stand alone deal SpeedTech? I was one of those that were skeptical of composite triggers, but now I want one.
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sorry, i'm not understanding why a trigger would only have problems with one or two brands of ammo in a certain caliber
can you describe what happens and why you think it does?
I use 3 different triggers in 3 New Frontier Armory Lowers I use for testing.
I am listing them in the order I prefer. I also get the best grouping in this order.
1. Composite Trigger 4.5 lbs consistant pull 8000+ rounds never an issue except with 762x39 Tula or Wolf, everything else OK
2. RRA 2 Stage reworked 2/2.5 lbs
3. Bushmaster Trigger reworked 3.75 lbs
I know lots of guys dont like the Composite Trigger groups. I think it is just the idea of it.
If I don't tell them when they shoot it they dont know.....
I tried Timney's they are great but cost is an issue and didn't fare better in my testing.
Geisseles are great also
Bottom line its all how you use it! and what can you afford.
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Certain foreign ammo have thicker primers. also the some primers are sometime deeper set into the shell casing. I have seen some .015" below. So that gives the AR firing pin not much to strike. This is mostly on 762x39. Some people have the problem on 223 wolf and Tula. I don't have too much problems with American made stuff.
The AR firing pin is also smaller in diameter compared to the AK.
The firing pin on an AK protrudes .045 to .055"
AR firing pin protrudes .025"
We have fixed the problem using A longer firing pin. I have custom made longer Titanium firing pins for the AR.
Yes the composite trigger set is sold by xring. It also comes in the Complete Mag Tactical Magnesium Lowers we sell.
Also the composite trigger assy has a lifetime warranty thru me.
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Using stock trigger Polished hammer and sear modified the springs worked well dropped the pull to around 4lbs now changed out the springs with JP spring kit pulls at 3 lbs no light strikes yet so don't think I have to cut the hammer.
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RRA two stage worked over by John Holliger of White Oak. I never had a problem for 8 years shooting matches and rimfire practice. That trigger must have ignited at least 5000 rnds of .22 LR. Then a Geisselle Hi Speed NM. Awesome trigger. If you measure trigger pull weight - be sure to use the lead weights instead of the fish scale ones.
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I installed a Geissele High Speed Super Match for my Bushmaster AR-15 and Armalite AR-10T Carbine...
:geekdanc:
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I use 3 different triggers in 3 New Frontier Armory Lowers I use for testing.
I am listing them in the order I prefer. I also get the best grouping in this order.
1. Composite Trigger 4.5 lbs consistant pull 8000+ rounds never an issue except with 762x39 Tula or Wolf, everything else OK
2. RRA 2 Stage reworked 2/2.5 lbs
3. Bushmaster Trigger reworked 3.75 lbs
I know lots of guys dont like the Composite Trigger groups. I think it is just the idea of it.
If I don't tell them when they shoot it they dont know.....
I tried Timney's they are great but cost is an issue and didn't fare better in my testing.
Geisseles are great also
Bottom line its all how you use it! and what can you afford.
curious what's the lock time of the composite triggers?
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I know it's faster than a stock trigger. I know when I tested my 9mm bump fire I got 725 rounds per min and on the composite trigger I got 875 rpm. I wish I could measure it
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What I was testing today.
Noveske Gen2 Lower
YHM Pins
Polymer Trigger Group
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G, but I've tried a Timney before and those are slick.
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I picked up a geissele SSA trigger for my current build. Haven't put it in yet
I have a new frontier complete lower and sometimes I put my LWRC upper on it. I swear I shoot tighter groups than with the LWRC lower and trigger.
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I know it is not terribly popular but I use only the J.P. Enterprise Single Stage Adjustable Trigger. Can't beat it for the price as well.
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:)
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I feel that for a single stage, JP cannot be beat. It's comparable to a good bolt gun trigger. I don't know what you mean about it can't be beat for the price, though. Unless you're referring to just the trigger without the hammer. I'm referring to the trigger complete with the speed hammer.
Also the install on the JP is not "drop in". If Geissele produced a single stage comparable to the JP, I would be all over that.
I was referring to the trigger without the speed hammer. The trigger is excellent without the lighter hammer. I am a big fan of single stage triggers and I think this is one of the best for the AR platform. And as you pointed out that the trigger is not a drop in is probably why the trigger is not more popular IMHO.
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Hey Inspector why don't we have a trigger day at the range. I will bring all my lowers and uppers and we can have a field day testing everything!
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Hey Inspector why don't we have a trigger day at the range. I will bring all my lowers and uppers and we can have a field day testing everything!
Hey Dex that sounds great! I don't have all my uppers in yet due to this run on everything. But if that is okay with you I can go just about any day. PM me and I'll let you know my current schedule. Also I'd like to take some notes, use my trigger gauge and pics and maybe do an informal review? I can also load up a variety loads including some match loads with some Berger Bullets I have. Sound good?
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Trigger day tomorrow? I'll be there with my service rifle - Geiselle trigger. Geiselle makes a single stage, the ALG, which is a refined standard GI trigger. The one distinct feature of a Hi _Speed G trigger is the placement of the trigger bow - it is about an 1/8" forward. There's no trigger that has that feature.
Here's a list of triggers that I'd be interested in:
Jewell
Krieger-Milazzo
KAC
RRA 2 stage
Timney
WIlson
any more out there?
In my opinion, the Krieger Milazzo was the best trigger I felt - a tad better than the Geiselle.
By the way, titanium firing pins don't contribute to a faster lock time. I have a buddy that can measure lock time but it is somewhat involved.
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Trigger day tomorrow? I'll be there with my service rifle - Geiselle trigger. Geiselle makes a single stage, the ALG, which is a refined standard GI trigger. The one distinct feature of a Hi _Speed G trigger is the placement of the trigger bow - it is about an 1/8" forward. There's no trigger that has that feature.
Here's a list of triggers that I'd be interested in:
Jewell
Krieger-Milazzo
KAC
RRA 2 stage
Timney
WIlson
any more out there?
In my opinion, the Krieger Milazzo was the best trigger I felt - a tad better than the Geiselle.
By the way, titanium firing pins don't contribute to a faster lock time. I have a buddy that can measure lock time but it is somewhat involved.
I'll be there tomorrow as well. I'll be over on the far right side around bench 90-94.
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As soon as I put together my lower with giessele ssa, I'll bring that down along with my lmt 2 stage. Hopefully I can get my lwrc trigger worked soon too :)
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Gonna' try one of these out - POF drop in. I have one of their first piston uppers made so this would be a good match.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_V34fcyNV4#ws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_V34fcyNV4#ws)
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reviving an old thread. O0
stumbled upon this trigger while looking for parts. unfortunately its out of stock right now. usually its $119 for a single stage 3.5lbs trigger from PSA. some people don't like PSA, but i'll try it once. I have their 2 stage, 4.5lbs trigger and its very good for $79
they also have a 3.5lbs trigger with curved trigger face, don't know how much that one costs bc its out of stock too.
maybe next build i'll try the 3.5lbs PSA one and see how it is
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBkJ3JUaQHY
test is under 3lbs, looks like tested near the end of the trigger but still that's pretty light
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_tUy6UksnM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aPddXIWRtk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Fg96qjR0I4
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I like PSA products. Yeah, they get $hit on from time to time. Seems mostly because they are slow to ship items that they showed as in stock. I’ve always had good experiences with them.
I’ve only used USGI and Geissele triggers for AR. My current fave is the SD-C, with SSA also good. I would be down to try others. Maybe for a future project gun. Looking forward to hearing how you like the PSA trigger.
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I have Geiselle, but if I had to do it again, I would stick with the USGI trigger. When shooting under stress, I can't tell the diff bewteen a $300 trigger and a heavier milspec one.
Or when shooting on the move, from the ground, etc...
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ALG ACT - not experienced enough to benefit from anything beyond a $60 trigger
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I have a ALG/ACT trigger with Wolff stronger hammer spring in my AR 7.62x39 to make sure I don't get light hammer strikes on Russian ammo, also have the enhanced firing pin for 7.62x39
I use the same lower for my SHTF 5.56 upper. reason being, in case I have to use anykine ammo lying around, it will fire
ALG/ACT is a good upgrade from the milspec one, not as gritty
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I picked up a Rise Armament drop in RA-140 Single stage and a LaRue MBT 2 stage.
The Rise is 3.5 lbs. single stage. It had to be sent back because it would drop the hammer on reset, which I caught in function testing before finding out the hard way. Also it requires anti walk pins or else you have to tighten the internals and increase the trigger weight. The replacement has been just fine and has a nice clean break.
The LaRue is a 2 stage with 2 lbs take up and a 2 lb.Super crisp break. It’s been problem free and I’ve since purchased a 2nd for my old man.
Both were around $90.
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I have Geiselle, but if I had to do it again, I would stick with the USGI trigger. When shooting under stress, I can't tell the diff bewteen a $300 trigger and a heavier milspec one.
Or when shooting on the move, from the ground, etc...
sounds like you are slapping the trigger
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I have Geiselle, but if I had to do it again, I would stick with the USGI trigger. When shooting under stress, I can't tell the diff bewteen a $300 trigger and a heavier milspec one.
Or when shooting on the move, from the ground, etc...
There's more to differences between USGI and Geissele than the trigger weight. You being able to tell the difference, well. . . ::) :rofl:
But seriously, I see so many issues with aftermarket triggers. One of the reasons why I was hesitant to try. Well, that and the $$$ for Geissele, hence my thread about whether or not they are worth it. I did put many years toward shooting with and learning the USGI trigger. Like a wise instructor once told me, I do feel it served me well to stick to the USGI trigger for that time.
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(Fast forward to 6:06 - “Custom vs. Stock Guns”) All the comments made me think of this little gem of opinion :)
https://youtu.be/uXGnq1iKrUU
Stick around for the whole video, the human was quite entertained.
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Gonna' try one of these out - POF drop in. I have one of their first piston uppers made so this would be a good match.
I got a POF drop in some time back. I find it has a lot of very noticeable creep that my CMC triggers do not.
It was cheap on sale at least, but far from being a match trigger.
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Out of all these triggers, any find one that exhibited light primer strikes?
Way back when, I installed a JP trigger kit, with the lightened hammer and spring. It did not reliably fire surplus 7.62 stuff. Replaces it before trying the stock hammer spring, but did dry fire it and it took away most of the light pull of the kit with lower power spring.
Dunno if 5.56mm mil-spec ammo needs as strong a hit as mil-spec 7.62mm does.
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There's more to differences between USGI and Geissele than the trigger weight. You being able to tell the difference, well. . . ::) :rofl:
But seriously, I see so many issues with aftermarket triggers. One of the reasons why I was hesitant to try. Well, that and the $$$ for Geissele, hence my thread about whether or not they are worth it. I did put many years toward shooting with and learning the USGI trigger. Like a wise instructor once told me, I do feel it served me well to stick to the USGI trigger for that time.
Wait till holidays. 25-30%off. But like i said, if i had to do it again, factory trigger is fine for me. Or even larue or ALG. Def wont buy a $120+ trigger.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
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I also have on a different AR, a PSA nickel/boron trigger (similar to ALG/ACT), later added JP enhanced reliability springs 3.5 lbs
its pretty good for a $37-$40 trigger including the springs. feels like a smooth GI only lighter. not a match grade trigger, but a good improvement
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Wait till holidays. 25-30%off. But like i said, if i had to do it again, factory trigger is fine for me. Or even larue or ALG. Def wont buy a $120+ trigger.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
I'm set on triggers for a while. I bought a few in their Black Friday sale and was actually delivered maybe a month ago.
You've actually had some experience with aftermarket trigger. That's also a consideration besides cost and whether or not one can tell the difference.
Out of all these triggers, any find one that exhibited light primer strikes?
Way back when, I installed a JP trigger kit, with the lightened hammer and spring. It did not reliably fire surplus 7.62 stuff. Replaces it before trying the stock hammer spring, but did dry fire it and it took away most of the light pull of the kit with lower power spring.
Dunno if 5.56mm mil-spec ammo needs as strong a hit as mil-spec 7.62mm does.
I haven't seen light primer strikes with AR triggers. I've mostly seen it with handguns when people tweak the firing pin and action springs. I don't recall seeing hard primers with 5.56/.223 ammo, but I typically don't shoot surplus ammo.
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Out of all these triggers, any find one that exhibited light primer strikes?
Way back when, I installed a JP trigger kit, with the lightened hammer and spring. It did not reliably fire surplus 7.62 stuff. Replaces it before trying the stock hammer spring, but did dry fire it and it took away most of the light pull of the kit with lower power spring.
Dunno if 5.56mm mil-spec ammo needs as strong a hit as mil-spec 7.62mm does.
I've heard that surplus 7.62 primer are harder than surplus 5.56
in one of the video's above with the PSA drop in trigger, he tests it in his AR10 with Tula ammo and says, "if it works in my AR10 with Tula it'll definitely work in my 5.56". he's referring to light primer strikes. take that FWIW, that's one guy
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sounds like you are slapping the trigger
Slappin’ it like it either owes you 💰 or a good time! 😅
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I'm set on triggers for a while. I bought a few in their Black Friday sale and was actually delivered maybe a month ago.
You've actually had some experience with aftermarket trigger. That's also a consideration besides cost and whether or not one can tell the difference.
I haven't seen light primer strikes with AR triggers. I've mostly seen it with handguns when people tweak the firing pin and action springs. I don't recall seeing hard primers with 5.56/.223 ammo, but I typically don't shoot surplus ammo.
Personally, I can't tell the diff when shooting under any kind of stressors (on the move, prone, timed, heart beating fast, etc...). The only time I could tell was when zeroing at the bench. But also when bench shooting, I don't wrap my thumb around the pistol grip either. Or could just be my finger, too much time with gf's in high school. :rofl:
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I always like Clint's Clintisms. "I'm gonna tell ET 1 time and 1 time only to drop the ray gun".
My rifle is way heavier than my wifes one. Like noticeably, unlike the trigger weight that I cannot tell between milspec and Geiselle.
Agree on the forward assist. When buying my first AR, I was asking my friend what that is and how come the rifle next to it doesn't have 1. He said the same thing Clint said.
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Personally, I can't tell the diff when shooting under any kind of stressors (on the move, prone, timed, heart beating fast, etc...). The only time I could tell was when zeroing at the bench. But also when bench shooting, I don't wrap my thumb around the pistol grip either. Or could just be my finger, too much time with gf's in high school. :rofl:
thumb outside an AR grip is dumb
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Minute of pie plate baby !
Got my neighborhood ranged off at 100 yards. Fire hydrant to fire hydrant. :D
(BCM I got is crazy accurate though)
Standard mil-spec triggers are wildly different one to the next in terms of grit.
Polishing would definitely help.
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I have a couple of SSA's purchased on some of the Holiday sales so I can feel bougie but ACT's and QMS's for the rest.. I picked up a Larue 2 stage last year but haven't put it in anything yet.
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I have a couple of SSA's purchased on some of the Holiday sales so I can feel bougie but ACT's and QMS's for the rest.. I picked up a Larue 2 stage last year but haven't put it in anything yet.
I was really interested in the QMS, but then I went with the SSA (and eventually SD-C). I think I still may try it on the future. Maybe a reason to build out one of my stripped lowers. ;D
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I was really interested in the QMS, but then I went with the SSA (and eventually SD-C). I think I still may try it on the future. Maybe a reason to build out one of my stripped lowers. ;D
FWIW I prefer the ACT, but the QMS is better than any of my old Milspec triggers by a decent amount.
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recently got a RRA 2 stage NM trigger. was on sale at JoeBobsOutfitters for $99 so i figure wth, and picked one up to replace a milspec one
also shot it this past sunday along with another AR with a PSA 2 stage 4.5lbs trigger which is $70
they look identical except for the color of the metal. feel about the same too, although the RRA is maybe slightly crisper than the PSA, but not by much. both shoot great, both are worth the money to upgrade from a milspec one or even a ALG/ACT one
each one is a great option for a budget trigger upgrade
i also have the ALG/ACT and added the JP Enterprise reliability springs that are rated at 3.5lbs. spring set is about $10. for a really budget trigger setup this is great too. only 1 light primer strike out of several hundred rounds.
but i prefer the RRA 2 stage or the PSA 2 stage over the ALG/ACT with the JP springs. the RRA and PSA are crisper break than the ALG/ACT