2aHawaii
General Topics => Legal and Activism => Topic started by: GZire on April 24, 2013, 02:18:58 PM
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http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/20130424_Honolulu_police_chief_signs_letter_calling_gun_control_vote_a_disgrace.html?id=204571871 (http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/20130424_Honolulu_police_chief_signs_letter_calling_gun_control_vote_a_disgrace.html?id=204571871)
From the link:
The letter, titled “Disgrace in the U.S. Senate,” came from the Major Cities Chiefs Association and read, "We looked to the U.S. Senate for courage and leadership on gun violence, to enact reforms that are long overdue. With 94 % of the public asking for better gun laws, we expected the Senate to do what cops do - protect the public. But a minority of Senators protected themselves instead of the American people. That's a disgrace."
...........funny.........seems to me the leadership the Senate displayed means they should support the 2A.
Also seems to me that the elected LEO leadership more often than not supports 2A, whereas the appointed LEO "leadership" opposes the 2A.
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Yup yup since they don't need to answer to the citizens, they need to suck up to the people who got them there.
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^^^ +1
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Not surprising at all and that is the man responsible for who gets ccw in Hawaii. No wonder why no regular citizen will ever be granted a ccw permit unless the law changes.
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http://www.honolulupd.org/news/index.php?page=main&story=292&select=2 (http://www.honolulupd.org/news/index.php?page=main&story=292&select=2)
What a political puppet. Sad, very sad... :(
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see, i did say Kealoha was an anti gun douche.
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see, i did say Kealoha was an anti gun douche.
I think you said that more than once....
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Key words: "Major Cities"
There's got to be a better way to distribute electoral influence than the way it is now.
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Seems like he would be more then eager to send SSD in to confiscate. What you think?
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Seems like he would be more then eager to send SSD in to confiscate. What you think?
Many guys on SSD would not be into that.
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Many guys on SSD would not be into that.
I know several of them too and the ones I know are gun guys all the way. I think the majority of rank and file LEO are gun folks who support the 2a. IMO it's just the senior brass and officers seeking upward mobility along that career path that play the anti-gun game. Probably some are even closet gun guys in disguise. :grrr:
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Thanks very reassuring guys.
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I know several of them too and the ones I know are gun guys all the way. I think the majority of rank and file LEO are gun folks who support the 2a. IMO it's just the senior brass and officers seeking upward mobility along that career path that play the anti-gun game. Probably some are even closet gun guys in disguise. :grrr:
This. You could expect that if it was a few people doing something stupid, they will be there to support the department. But if we are talking total 100% confiscation type situation (ala Katrina). I think you will some people walk away. Just a few people leaving would change the total dynamics a swat team.
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Should we write this guy a letter? 94% supports stricter gun laws?
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"...we expected the Senate to do what cops do - protect the public. But a minority of Senators protected themselves instead of the American people. That's a disgrace."
The senate does, what the cops do and the cops do what the senate does. They use their positions to be hypocrites. Government at every level from the very bottom to the very top is a disgrace nuff said. The people who founded this country would be ashamed to see what it is now.
It is also a disgrace that it seems like the majority of citizens just dont want to stand up and kick these lunatics ass back out on the street.
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Maybe find a legislator to sponsor a bill to change the Police cheif / Sheriffs to an elected position bringing the state in line with all other states.
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Maybe we could write and tell him how the courts ruled that the police have no duty to protect anyone.
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Maybe find a legislator to sponsor a bill to change the Police cheif / Sheriffs to an elected position bringing the state in line with all other states.
This would be interesting. Despite the concern that the position becomes a popularity contest and that unions will always win in a Hawaii voting contest, I've always thought that appointed positions lead to less accountability to the people they are supposed to serve.
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I think you said that more than once....
Lol, Kealoha is an anti-gun douche! (It bears repeating...) :D
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This would be interesting. Despite the concern that the position becomes a popularity contest and that unions will always win in a Hawaii voting contest, I've always thought that appointed positions lead to less accountability to the people they are supposed to serve.
This. In basically every other jurisdiction in the country, the county sheriff is the head honcho law enforcement officer, for that exact reason--he's elected. An unelected, unaccountable bureaucrat should never be the big cheese in law enforcement. See also: Kealoha, Louis; and Holder, Eric.
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Since this position is appointed; I assume the Governor does this; The Conservitive that runs against the current occupant needs a platform to rid our appointed law enforcement for more 2A freindly appointees.
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Anyone have concrete sources for these polls that say 90%+ americans want more gun laws?
I know that's BS. I want to see the exact wording.
If that was actually true as worded then the Senators would have no fear of being kicked out next election by passing those laws. What are they supposedly protecting themselves from by blocking the law?
Which, the law wasn't actually killed by a vote. It never came to a vote because Reid pulled it. Why? Because he knew it would not pass. Better for their interests to have no vote then to let it get to a no pass vote. Geezzus. The amount of non-information about how our government "works" is unbelievable. (Whether it "works" at all is a different issue.)
I can believe that 90%+ Americans want less gun violence. The question is whether the proposed laws would have that effect.
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Since this position is appointed; I assume the Governor does this; The Conservitive that runs against the current occupant needs a platform to rid our appointed law enforcement for more 2A freindly appointees.
The chief of police is appointed by the city, not the state. I'm not sure if its by the mayor or by the police commissioner.
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Worse yet he's not even appointed by an elected official but by the police commission. Total insulation from the people.
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The question probably was something like "do you think the current gun laws are effective in reducing crime/gun violence"
No.
Therefore idiots will say well then that means we more laws, stricter laws, blah blah blah.
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Worse yet he's not even appointed by an elected official but by the police commission. Total insulation from the people.
Who selects who is on the Police Commission?.. This might be easier to bypass if it is an internel process. All that would be needed is an amendment to the law that provides for this.
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Since this position is appointed; I assume the Governor does this; The Conservitive that runs against the current occupant needs a platform to rid our appointed law enforcement for more 2A freindly appointees.
HPD is C&C. In Honolulu that means appointment is through the Police Comission. Police Comission is appointed by the Mayor. Indirectly/directly the Mayor influences who the Police Chief is and what the policy is.
I had a little bit of an email thing going with HiCarry. I was hoping he might be able to get some insight in how the City Charters differ from County to County. As you may/may not remember, there was a bit of a political scuffle on Kauai about who is the Chief's boss. I wasn't sure if the Kauai Charter was similar to Oahu and the other counties.
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/176530211.html?id=176530211 (http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/176530211.html?id=176530211)
A Kauai circuit judge Tuesday (this was in 2012) ruled the mayor of Kauai has powers to suspend or discipline the police chief.
Citing the Kauai County Charter, Judge Randal Valenciano ruled that “the mayor, as chief executive officer of the County of Kauai, does have the power to: except as otherwise provided, exercise direct supervision over all departments,” according to a news release.
Earlier this year, Kauai Mayor Bernard Carvalho Jr. placed Kauai Police Chief Darryl Perry on leave as the county investigated an employee complaint alleging a hostile work environment at the Police Department. In March, Carvalho allowed him to return to work.
In a news release, Carvalho said, “We are pleased that the court has confirmed our position and now look forward to moving beyond this to focus on the many important matters that face the county.”
Ernest Kanekoa Jr., chairman of the county Police Commission, said commissioners were surprised by Valenciano’s ruling. “We’re not so pleased with it.”
“That’s how the judge ruled and we have to abide by it,” he said.
The Charter states the commission can hire or terminate the police chief, said Kanekoa adding the questionable area is whether the commission can discipline or suspend the police chief.
Deputy Prosecutor Jake Delaplane said he was also surprised by the ruling. “From my reading of the Charter and a lot of respected attorneys’ reading of the charter, it appears the Police Commission has the authority to remove, suspend or discipline the police chief.”
Delaplane said he thinks the mayor’s action to place Perry on leave earlier this year was unlawful. “Our Charter is very clear,” he added. The Police Commission is granted the authority to appoint or remove the police chief from his position. “When the mayor removed the police chief by suspending him indefinitely, I believe he violated the Charter,” said Delaplane. “I would hope that the counsel for the police commission appeals this ruling because of the ramifications that a ruling like this would have in our county and statewide.
So to me the question about does the Kauai Charter structure represent what we have on Oahu means this..............if it was, then the Mayor (of C&C), if he so desired, could conceivably place pressure on the HPD Chief to start issuing CCW permits as the Mayor can "exercise direct supervision over all departments." If the Charters are similar, then I would think if Mayor Caldwell so desired he could order HPD Chief to start issuing permits immediately.
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Exersizing a civil right should not be determined by a political agenda. It should be a no brainer that the Police Chief has NO AUTHORITY over our 2A rights.
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Exersizing a civil right should not be determined by a political agenda. It should be a no brainer that the Police Chief has NO AUTHORITY over our 2A rights.
Be that as it may, the Chief of each County is the person who determines if you "may" carry. The Chiefs have all consistently denied CCW permits. With Mayor Caldwell supposedly 2A, we'll see if he truly tries/is able to do something for the people.
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HPD is C&C. In Honolulu that means appointment is through the Police Comission. Police Comission is appointed by the Mayor. Indirectly/directly the Mayor influences who the Police Chief is and what the policy is.
I had a little bit of an email thing going with HiCarry. I was hoping he might be able to get some insight in how the City Charters differ from County to County. As you may/may not remember, there was a bit of a political scuffle on Kauai about who is the Chief's boss. I wasn't sure if the Kauai Charter was similar to Oahu and the other counties.
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/176530211.html?id=176530211 (http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/176530211.html?id=176530211)
So to me the question about does the Kauai Charter structure represent what we have on Oahu means this..............if it was, then the Mayor (of C&C), if he so desired, could conceivably place pressure on the HPD Chief to start issuing CCW permits as the Mayor can "exercise direct supervision over all departments." If the Charters are similar, then I would think if Mayor Caldwell so desired he could order HPD Chief to start issuing permits immediately.
I wasn't able to do any research on the various city charters and how they might differ. Sorry, just been too busy lately....
The authority of the police commission to hire/fire/discipline the Chief was supposed to be (per my very limited understanding) insulation of sorts from the political arena. But, the Mayor appoints the members of the commission, hence the insulation isn't a great as probably intended. As I mentioned earlier, the Mayor was going to make some appointments to the commission, but they were all filled by the outgoing administration....wonder what "bent" those new appointees are??
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The current police commission and the current chief of police is from Mufi's time.
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Is the police commission a part of the union?
From what ive heard, shopo is a very big and very powerful union.
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The commission is not part of the union, but are volunteer appointees from the community. The mayor appoints members in the commission and the appointees are confirmed by the city council.
Here is a PDF describing the commission and its functions.
http://www.honolulupd.org/downloads/HPC_Brochure.pdf
The 2011 Annual Report provides more details about the commission.
http://www.honolulupd.org/downloads/HPC2011AnnualReport.pdf
One of its function is to look into complaints by citizens with regards to the police force. I wonder if a well written petition against Kealoha's anti-constitutional statements could be sent to the commission.
The mission of the commission is as follows (sorry for the bold face. I won't be re-typing this one):
MISSION STATEMENT OF THE HONOLULU POLICE COMMISSION
ESTABLISH A SYSTEM OF LAW ENFORCEMENT BASED ON DUE REGARD FOR THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS OF ALL PERSONS, WHICH SHALL PROMOTE THE HIGHEST DEGREE OF MUTUAL RESPECT BETWEEN POLICE OFFICERS AND THE PUBLIC AND WHICH SHALL PROVIDE FOR THE EXPEDITIOUS APPREHENSION OF THOSE WHO VIOLATE THE LAW.
MAINTAIN A MEANINGFUL, FAIR AND EFFECTIVE SYSTEM OF COMPLAINT PROCEDURE WHEREBY COMPLAINTS AGAINST THE CONDUCT OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT OR ANY OF ITS OFFICERS AND EMPLOYEES ARE RECEIVED, CONSIDERED, INVESTIGATED AND RESOLVED.
ENHANCE THE PUBLIC CONFIDENCE, TRUST AND SUPPORT IN THE INTEGRITY, FAIRNESS AND RESPECT OF THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, ITS OFFICERS AND EMPLOYEES.
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Thanks for finding and posting those links adn the PDF. Now I gotta digest a bit and then decide if I "think" I understand.
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Thanks for the info.
Someone posted up a link before about an article regarding police discipline actions. It was a great article. Wish i could link it to you, but im not sure how effective it is for the police to police themselves.
Maybe im just getting it all confused.
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Thanks for the info.
Someone posted up a link before about an article regarding police discipline actions. It was a great article. Wish i could link it to you, but im not sure how effective it is for the police to police themselves.
Maybe im just getting it all confused.
I'd be interested in the article if you found it. The commission members are usually not members of the police but private folks of some regard, good standing and some some clout in the community. Take a look at the current and past members and take note of their companies/organizations and titles.
The commission provide some sort of public representation but will usually have some rapport with the current and/or past mayors. The terms of the members' service are longer than the mayor's term so they hang around longer than the mayor.
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Here is a good read for all the other states with regard to shall issue: http://www.claytoncramer.com/scholarly/shall-issue.html (http://www.claytoncramer.com/scholarly/shall-issue.html)
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I read in a conservative ad that 91% of police polled DO NOT support gun control. I wonder what 94% Kealoha is talking about? The poll was nation wide using different ranks and positions.
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I read in a conservative ad that 91% of police polled DO NOT support gun control. I wonder what 94% Kealoha is talking about? The poll was nation wide using different ranks and positions.
http://ddq74coujkv1i.cloudfront.net/p1_gunsurveysummary_2013.pdf (http://ddq74coujkv1i.cloudfront.net/p1_gunsurveysummary_2013.pdf)
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Maybe the police chief should check this out...
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." - United States Constitution Amendment 2 & Hawaii State Constitution Article 1 Section 17
Seems he should be following those two items in reference to being ashamed about the senate not passing the gun ban laws...
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I wasn't able to do any research on the various city charters and how they might differ. Sorry, just been too busy lately....
The authority of the police commission to hire/fire/discipline the Chief was supposed to be (per my very limited understanding) insulation of sorts from the political arena. But, the Mayor appoints the members of the commission, hence the insulation isn't a great as probably intended. As I mentioned earlier, the Mayor was going to make some appointments to the commission, but they were all filled by the outgoing administration....wonder what "bent" those new appointees are??
No probs HiCarry, I know all you folks are busy. Have you been able to ask Dr. Cooper about the subject?
As stated above I was hoping that with the Kauai thing the Honolulu Mayor would be able to exert more direct control over HPD rather than having to go through back channels.
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No probs HiCarry, I know all you folks are busy. Have you been able to ask Dr. Cooper about the subject?
As stated above I was hoping that with the Kauai thing the Honolulu Mayor would be able to exert more direct control over HPD rather than having to go through back channels.
We got a little insight into the process when speaking to the Mayor about the range hours and improvements. He says he has no direct control over the Chief, rather the Commission does. Therein lays the problem insofar as the "pressure" he could exert is minimal. Any political pressure via the commission is similarly limited because Carlisle filled all appointed positions until 2015 (I believe....)
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We got a little insight into the process when speaking to the Mayor about the range hours and improvements. He says he has no direct control over the Chief, rather the Commission does. Therein lays the problem insofar as the "pressure" he could exert is minimal. Any political pressure via the commission is similarly limited because Carlisle filled all appointed positions until 2015 (I believe....)
That's a deal breaker if they're anything like Carlisle.
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We got a little insight into the process when speaking to the Mayor about the range hours and improvements. He says he has no direct control over the Chief, rather the Commission does. Therein lays the problem insofar as the "pressure" he could exert is minimal. Any political pressure via the commission is similarly limited because Carlisle filled all appointed positions until 2015 (I believe....)
Damn...........yeah I tought this was the case. I thought I remembered hearing that Kauai's Charter was different than Honolulu's. :'(