2aHawaii
General Topics => Legal and Activism => Topic started by: Digital on April 24, 2013, 08:59:32 PM
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Hi All,
I'm curious about the gun registration laws regarding a weapon that you create yourself and didn't buy off of a shelf. I like to make stuff and want to make one. The novelty of the idea of bring able to say "I made that!" alone fascinates me. So what's stopping me? Well I like being a law abiding citizen & realize that I will need to register it as it would be a weapon. However I'm unsure about the actual steps involved with what I would need to do to/with the weapon before taking it down to register at HPD.
From what I've been able to gather I would need to etch my permit number into the lower I create and then I can take it down there.
Does anyone know the process?
Has anyone else had access to a machine shop and they manufactured their own weapon?
Anyone have any references they could point me towards?
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google 80% ar lowers.
it sounds like what youre going for is along those lines.
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from what i understand the appeal of an 80% lower is you dont have to register it if you complete it yourself without a gunsmith doing it for you. id assume a gun built from the ground up would be the same?
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You have to register it here, including 80% lowers.
You have to etch a number or have a shop etch a number for you. X ring can do this for you. Not sure about any other shops but call around and see.
After yiu do that you need to register it.
Also, I don't think you can ever sell it.
Everything must be registered though.
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If we finish it you can resell it in the future.
In hawaii you must register it within 5 days of completion
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Ok, Thanks for the feedback thus far.....
So would the number I'd have to have etched just be my permit number?
As I doubt its legit to just make up an arbitrary number out of thin air for myself.
Any caveats to that? Or is it just simply etching the number into one place on lower, no specific location it must be at?
The registering i had already figured was a must. It is a gun, so like it or not, guns must be registered out here in Hawaii.
I'd rather register it anyways then have to face the ramifications later on if something happened. Ignorance is no excuse in a court of law unfortunately.
I'm not planning to sell it. It would be for home defense for myself. I'd just rather make it myself then pay money to someone else.
I'm leaning more towards just 3D printing one rather then purchasing an 80%-er. It'd be quicker and simpler then ordering one and waiting for the mail.
Defcad.org and a couple other sites all have the designs readily available and access to a printer for me out here is not an issue.
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Ive never done it myself but i think you can put whatever number you want. Dont see why not. Its yours.
Also, are the printed lowers still having cracking problems? Personally i would go with an 80%
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I have seen 2 3d models. I wanted so badly to squueze them. They were not complete but the customer wanted to show me.
Somehow need to figure a way of bonding the plastic together.
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It's simple to bond them, plastic glue & clamp.
I think this is the answer to the number that needs to be etched into the gun. It is under HRS 134-3(b) (http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0134/HRS_0134-0003.htm (http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0134/HRS_0134-0003.htm))
It looks like it needs to be my permit number.
Upon reading the HRS 134 I'm wondering if HRS134-32 & 33 would apply?
Has anyone out here actually made their own firearm before in Hawaii? Whether it's a 80%-er or otherwise?
In regards to cracking, they keep coming out with new revisions of the designs. ie-. DefDist Printed AR Lower - Part III (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAW72Y_XPF4#ws)
It would take me a while to test it as thoroughly as they did in that video, I guess the theory is If it cracks it would be relatively inexpensive to replace.
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I believe if you make/mill a receiver from scratch you need an ffl?????
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But i wouldn't be making it to "engage in a business pertaining to the manufacture of".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Firearms_License (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Firearms_License)
I'd simple be making it for myself, just like someone would if they buy an 80% and finishes it themselves.
http://www.tacticalmachining.com/80-lower-receiver.html (http://www.tacticalmachining.com/80-lower-receiver.html)
So I don't think the ffl would apply.
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It's simple to bond them, plastic glue & clamp.
I think this is the answer to the number that needs to be etched into the gun. It is under HRS 134-3(b) (http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0134/HRS_0134-0003.htm (http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0134/HRS_0134-0003.htm))
It looks like it needs to be my permit number.
Upon reading the HRS 134 I'm wondering if HRS134-32 & 33 would apply?
Has anyone out here actually made their own firearm before in Hawaii? Whether it's a 80%-er or otherwise?
In regards to cracking, they keep coming out with new revisions of the designs. ie-. DefDist Printed AR Lower - Part III (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAW72Y_XPF4#ws)
It would take me a while to test it as thoroughly as they did in that video, I guess the theory is If it cracks it would be relatively inexpensive to replace.
oneword: Slidefire.
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That slidefire looks cool. . . :thumbsup:
But it'd still cost me less if I made my own.
If anyone has made their own firearm, an 80% lower or otherwise, IN HAWAII please post a reply or message me directly. Or if you know where to point me in the proper direction to find my answer, please message me or post. I'm interested in the process involved with registering a personally created (& not for resell) firearm out here.
I just want to have a clear understanding before I try making a firearm myself. I know Hawaii doesn't always have the most straight forward laws and I don't want to see a fun project of making a firearm come back to seriously bite me in my arse.
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do you have a 3d printer? i've been thinking of buying one myself and making them also. instead of investing a few hundred into a lower it could really be put to good use building all kinds of parts or custom parts that could be sold(just not the lower receiver).
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That slidefire looks cool. . . :thumbsup:
But it'd still cost me less if I made my own.
If anyone has made their own firearm, an 80% lower or otherwise, IN HAWAII please post a reply or message me directly. Or if you know where to point me in the proper direction to find my answer, please message me or post. I'm interested in the process involved with registering a personally created (& not for resell) firearm out here.
I just want to have a clear understanding before I try making a firearm myself. I know Hawaii doesn't always have the most straight forward laws and I don't want to see a fun project of making a firearm come back to seriously bite me in my arse.
From what i understand ATF states that If you are building a firearm for yourself only with out the intent to sell,transfer or trade then you can build it without registration numbers but in Hawaii you need to register all firearms so you would need to come up with a number to be following Hawaii state law
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From what i understand ATF states that If you are building a firearm for yourself only with out the intent to sell,transfer or trade then you can build it without registration numbers but in Hawaii you need to register all firearms so you would need to come up with a number to be following Hawaii state law
Thanks HI State! That's pretty much the conclusion I have come to too.
I just wanted to get input from anyone that's made any kine and if they've incountered any hurdles during registration.
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do you have a 3d printer? i've been thinking of buying one myself and making them also. instead of investing a few hundred into a lower it could really be put to good use building all kinds of parts or custom parts that could be sold(just not the lower receiver).
There are a lot of 3D printers out there that you can buy or build. Kind folks out there are constantly updating, revising, and sharing models besides firearms (check out thingiverse.com). It can be an addictive 'hobby' but it has a steep startup cost upfront that deters most. If the quality of your prints are high enough you can easily make stuff and sell them. Don't expect to get a 3D printer and printing masterwork items "out of the box" without a learning curve to the printer, it might take a month or two of fiddling with your printer to get it dialed in and modded out to your liking. (Unless you buy a super high end machine). But its great once you reach a comfort level with yours they can make some amazing stuff. That being said, also don't expect to be selling any lowers, you'll need a ffl, or the ATF will come knocking... . Defcad.org recently acquired their ffl so I reckon they'll start either selling parts or printing-as-a-service (kinda like shapeways.com).
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You do have to do something via ATF regardless of intent to sell or not. It's like an $80 build permit. I'll find the information online, i was reading about it a few months back.
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You need a type 7 ffl. Also you need to pay the DOJ $2750 for manufacturing per year.
Also polymer lowers manufactured need a metal serial number tag imbedded into the reciever.
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i've downloaded all the CAD files i can find for possible future use. just maybe, the technology will be good enough sometime in the near future. i've been looking at rep-raps (which were the start of 3D printing) for years and has always been an interest.
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I found what I was reading and it had to do with sound supressors/ie... silencers, not guns. Unfortunately, Hawaii doens't allow the silencers and that really sucks, cause I'd like to target practice here at home without pissing off neighbors (Yes, I have the legal parcel size and target setup, but the damn noise can still be an issue). So what ever they said above sounds to be correct. I wonder what the law is on "Anti-Matter Emitters" >:D :stopjack:
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I found what I was reading and it had to do with sound supressors/ie... silencers, not guns. Unfortunately, Hawaii doens't allow the silencers and that really sucks, cause I'd like to target practice here at home without pissing off neighbors (Yes, I have the legal parcel size and target setup, but the damn noise can still be an issue). So what ever they said above sounds to be correct. I wonder what the law is on "Anti-Matter Emitters" >:D :stopjack:
There is a minimum legal parcels size you need to shoot in your backyard? I thought as long as you have adequate backdrop and nothing leaves the property its ok.
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Think it was 500 ft from other dwellings, can't be shooting towards a road etc. etc. There is no parcel size per sey but there are specific buffer distances. For instance you're in the middle of 1000'X1000' (still not safe IMO unless you've a trap, etc) lot or you've no neighbors houses within 500' of your shooting location. Otherwise... you need an approved range. So without an approved range and neighbors about you, you need to have the appropriate buffer zone. That might be a local COH ordinance only, don't recall where those regulations came form, only that they apply to me at home.
Also to add... cannot be residential zoned here ie, no discharging of firearma in residential zoned areas. Has to be ag zoned if done on private property.
I still have to be damn careful what direction I'm shooting if not target practice, I've taken down 6 hogs this year alone on my property and each time I take aim, the layout of my neighbors homes for 1 mile about me is burned into my brain. Because there are serveral homes within that mile distance I seldom use my Mosin 7.62X54r for taking them down, 99% of the time I grab my 10-22 to take them down.
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So the state dept has taken down the defcad files..... Hope you got them while they were up....
And apparently defcad is getting ready to relaunch, who knows what it'll become.... so visit them and sign up for the email blast.