2aHawaii
General Topics => Strategies and Tactics => Topic started by: jonjon on April 28, 2013, 12:10:16 AM
-
Hello everyone, I am headed to my first precision rifle class next week(Magpul Dynamics) and wanted to know if anyone has any advice before I head out. Any suggestions
on what I should bring or not bring to the class equipment wise would be helpful. Also the class will be held in Yakima WA, any info on weather and type of clothing would also
be appreciated - Aloha & Mahalo
:shaka:
-
The weather in eastern WA should be awesome by this time of year. Maybe still on the cooler side for Hawaii people, but loved Seattle weather come April and May.
I believe a friend (from Oregon whom I met thru another gun forum) is either going to the class or went to that one last year. Let me know if you have any specific questions and I'll ask him.
-
The weather in eastern WA should be awesome by this time of year. Maybe still on the cooler side for Hawaii people, but loved Seattle weather come April and May.
I believe a friend (from Oregon whom I met thru another gun forum) is either going to the class or went to that one last year. Let me know if you have any specific questions and I'll ask him.
Thanks for the reply
Here is the list of the required gear provided by Magpul but is there anything more specific(brand/type) that is recommended or should know about? Also should I bring my spotting scope and a field chair? My suitcase is getting pretty heavy but I definitely don't want to leave out anything I might need but at the same time I don't want to bring crap I don't need.
Front and Rear Rifle Supports (Bipods adjustable for height and cant and a rear bean-bag.)
Rifle Cheek Piece (If the rifle does not possess an adjustable cheek piece; foam and duck-tape.)
Rifle Cleaning Equipment
Rifle Sling (The Magpul MS3 is an excellent precision rifle sling.)
Pen/Pencil and a Notebook
Eye and Ear Protection
Sturdy footwear
Clothing appropriate for the weather conditions. (We will shoot rain, shine, sleet or snow. Please be prepared and check local weather forecasts.)
Baseball or Boonie Style Hat or other suitable headgear.
Water Hydrating Device
A pack that is suitable for carrying all your range gear for the day.
Range Chair (Most all instruction will be conducted under field conditions.)
A Positive Mental Attitude and an Open Mind
-
remember , the humidity on the mainland is MUCH lower than here
eastern washington is a desert
so be very careful with your hydration
it may be cool, so you won't notice it as much until it's too late
you're better off peeing too much rather than being dehydrated, incoherent and unable to shoot/learn
The weather in eastern WA should be awesome by this time of year. Maybe still on the cooler side for Hawaii people, but loved Seattle weather come April and May.
I believe a friend (from Oregon whom I met thru another gun forum) is either going to the class or went to that one last year. Let me know if you have any specific questions and I'll ask him.
-
If u don't have one already a Chronograph,field density chart and a weather meter that reads density altitude,temp,windspeed and humidity will help u out and bring a big note pad and a bunch of pens cus your gonna be takin a lot of notes
-
remember , the humidity on the mainland is MUCH lower than here
eastern washington is a desert
so be very careful with your hydration
it may be cool, so you won't notice it as much until it's too late
you're better off peeing too much rather than being dehydrated, incoherent and unable to shoot/learn
Thanks for the heads up, definitely bringing my Camelbak and also got some Oral IV from Mojo Tactical.
-
You taking anything to spot your shots, or will they have something up there for that?
-
You taking anything to spot your shots, or will they have something up there for that?
Spotting scopes were not listed as required equipment but still deciding if I should bring my spotting scope.
-
What distances are you folks shooting at?
-
Looks like we will be shooting at distances from 70 - 1100 yards.
-
.
-
Looks like we will be shooting at distances from 70 - 1100 yards.
Man that's some yardage there.
What cartridge are you shooting?
-
Make sure you are comfortable firing off the bag / ruck you will be bringing. I know they dedicate a particular portion of the course to this firing position.
If you don't want to get too bulky with your cold weather gear, pick up some thermal undershirts/pants. If you want to go the cheap route, head to Walmart and buy the compressive long sleeves/pants.
I'd suggest 'rite in the rain' notebook and a zip lock for your notebook. If you can find one with both notebook paper and a long range data book, you will be golden.
Main thing : Have fun and enjoy the experience. You are going to learn things that will blow your mind. Don't be surprised if you shoot out to or beyond 2k.
Picked up a Eberlestock Lodrag and pack gun rest from Mojo, never used it before but good to know that I will get to utilize it during the course. Just checked the weather forecast for Yakima and looks like the weather will be mostly sunny and highs in the mid 80's but the daily low will be in the 40's :shake: I do have my thermal underwear from when I volunteered up in Japan last winter when it was below freezing and had no heating at night so I should be good to go with the cold weather gear. As for a long range notebook do you know if anyone carries one locally?
Appreciate the info Q :shaka:
-
Man that's some yardage there.
What cartridge are you shooting?
I'm bringing up my Remington 308, it's only a 20" barrel so might be a challenge for me but I have shot it out to about 800 with 168gr . For the class they want us to shoot only 175gr for the 308, I almost was not able to attend the class because I could not find any ammo :( We need at least 400 rounds for the class and to get 400 rounds of match 175gr at a reasonable price is close to impossible now days. Luckily found a shop in Arizona that had some m118lr in stock and they shipped it over to Yakima for me.
-
Thanks for the reply
SNIP
Ok. I sent my friend an email with your questions. Will let you know when I hear back.
Latest I heard was the weather in Yakima was pretty nice. I used to drive over from Seattle to fly fish about 1-2 times a year when I lived in Seattle. If you're driving over from Seattle on I-90, you'll pass through some scenic mountain pass areas.
-
I'm bringing up my Remington 308, it's only a 20" barrel so might be a challenge for me but I have shot it out to about 800 with 168gr . For the class they want us to shoot only 175gr for the 308, I almost was not able to attend the class because I could not find any ammo :( We need at least 400 rounds for the class and to get 400 rounds of match 175gr at a reasonable price is close to impossible now days. Luckily found a shop in Arizona that had some m118lr in stock and they shipped it over to Yakima for me.
I'm not sure how your rifle is setup, but at that longer ranges you might run out of adjustment on your scope. I've shot at about 900 yds at KR-3 on Schofield and I have to dial back magnification in order to see impact/splash even then I'm outside of the gradations on my reticle.
You might want to look into some bases with 20 or 30 mils of angle on them. I'd discuss with the instructors to see what kind of adjustment you typically would see at those distances.
-
I'm not sure how your rifle is setup, but at that longer ranges you might run out of adjustment on your scope. I've shot at about 900 yds at KR-3 on Schofield and I have to dial back magnification in order to see impact/splash even then I'm outside of the gradations on my reticle.
You might want to look into some bases with 20 or 30 mils of angle on them. I'd discuss with the instructors to see what kind of adjustment you typically would see at those distances.
Got a 20 moa base on my rifle so should be good to go, my Zeiss reticle also ranges out to 1000 yards. I am also bringing along a Leupold mkIV with a mil dot reticle, never used a mil dot so might use it if the class is being taught using a mil dot system. I am really new to the precision game so will try to be a sponge and absorb as much info as I can get, I will also try to give review once I get back to Hawaii.
-
if your going to be using your mil dot reticle scope look into a mil dot master if you don't have one already. as far as data note books locally the last time i went into mojo he had some right in rain ones
-
You need to get a spotting scope with the iphone/phone mount to record your shots. That would be cool to watch on playback....or a video cam attachment.
-
.
-
Thanks for the reply
Here is the list of the required gear provided by Magpul but is there anything more specific(brand/type) that is recommended or should know about? Also should I bring my spotting scope and a field chair? My suitcase is getting pretty heavy but I definitely don't want to leave out anything I might need but at the same time I don't want to bring crap I don't need.
Front and Rear Rifle Supports (Bipods adjustable for height and cant and a rear bean-bag.)
Rifle Cheek Piece (If the rifle does not possess an adjustable cheek piece; foam and duck-tape.)
Rifle Cleaning Equipment
Rifle Sling (The Magpul MS3 is an excellent precision rifle sling.)
Pen/Pencil and a Notebook
Eye and Ear Protection
Sturdy footwear
Clothing appropriate for the weather conditions. (We will shoot rain, shine, sleet or snow. Please be prepared and check local weather forecasts.)
Baseball or Boonie Style Hat or other suitable headgear.
Water Hydrating Device
A pack that is suitable for carrying all your range gear for the day.
Range Chair (Most all instruction will be conducted under field conditions.)
A Positive Mental Attitude and an Open Mind
Heard back from my buddy. He took the SPR course, which was more like 50 yards to 600 yards whereas you'll be in the 1,000+ yards ranges.
He did recommend bringing your spotting scope and range chair. However, since you're flying there, you'll probably be better off buying something from a sporting goods shop in town.
His other recommendations were a Mildot scope, Harris or Atlas bi-pod (swivel type) and to also have the manual for your scope handy.
Have fun up there. I will be heading to AK for a handgun and carbine course and packing up all of the required gear and cold weather clothing can be a pain for sure. Learned some lessons from when I flew with my guns last year. Print out the TSA regulations and your airline's policy on firearms. Many of the TSA agents and the airline check-in agents have no idea of the regulations. One airline agent said I needed TSA locks on my gun case. Have backup equipment if available. Probably will be VERY tough and expensive for a backup precision rig, but in my last class, an Aimpoint and a Trijicon optic failed during the class, so shat happens.
Looking forward to hearing how it goes!
-
Not sure why they are not allowing 168gr? With 168 out of 20" @ 1000 you will be at around ~39 mins of adjustment. Your set up should have way more than ample adjustment. I know that a 24" barrel shooting 175 is right around 34 MIns so not a big deal. My rifle is 19" and even running a suppressor 1200+ is not that big of a deal with .308. Does your Zeiss scope have a milling reticle? You should need one, even for a basic course. WA should be pleasant this time of year. I just got back from the East Coast a couple weeks ago and got rained on, then it turned to freezing rain, then into snow. Does not make for pleasant shooting. :shake:
-
Not sure why they are not allowing 168gr? With 168 out of 20" @ 1000 you will be at around ~39 mins of adjustment. Your set up should have way more than ample adjustment. I know that a 24" barrel shooting 175 is right around 34 MIns so not a big deal. My rifle is 19" and even running a suppressor 1200+ is not that big of a deal with .308. Does your Zeiss scope have a milling reticle? You should need one, even for a basic course. WA should be pleasant this time of year. I just got back from the East Coast a couple weeks ago and got rained on, then it turned to freezing rain, then into snow. Does not make for pleasant shooting. :shake:
i would think the turret adjustment isn't the main reason, the 168gr will go transonic at around 750-850yrds depending on the velocity, yes its doable but with 175gr that has a higher bullet coefficient it will be more stable at longer ranges
-
i would think the turret adjustment isn't the main reason, the 168gr will go transonic at around 750-850yrds depending on the velocity, yes its doable but with 175gr that has a higher bullet coefficient it will be more stable at longer ranges
It's more than doable. Guys are doing it all the time with 168gr FGMM. We can talk paper numbers all we want, but the proof is in the doing and it is done all the time. With ammo issues as they are right now, it doesn't make sense to restrict the course to only 175gr.
-
Hey Guys - thanks for all of the insight and info, I just arrived in Yakima and wether is nice and sunny with the temperature in the 60's. Was a little worried making the drive over from Seattle, the mountains were covered in snow and the freeway was a little slick - a little scary for a person used to driving in warm weather :shake:
The class starts tomorrow morning, very excited but a little nervous at the same time. I hope I can have some fun and gain some knowledge, will try to keep you guys posted - aloha :shaka:
-
Not sure why they are not allowing 168gr? With 168 out of 20" @ 1000 you will be at around ~39 mins of adjustment. Your set up should have way more than ample adjustment. I know that a 24" barrel shooting 175 is right around 34 MIns so not a big deal. My rifle is 19" and even running a suppressor 1200+ is not that big of a deal with .308. Does your Zeiss scope have a milling reticle? You should need one, even for a basic course. WA should be pleasant this time of year. I just got back from the East Coast a couple weeks ago and got rained on, then it turned to freezing rain, then into snow. Does not make for pleasant shooting. :shake:
Hello Surf - This is what I got from Magpul Dynamics:
"Magpul Dynamics does not recommend students to utilize the Sierra 168 Grain HPBT Matchking projectile for the Precision Rifle 1 or 2 courses. This projectile experiences dynamic instability at extended ranges and does not produce consistent results at transonic flight speed and below. The recommended projectile is the Sierra 175 Grain HPBT Matchking. It is to be noted that other projectiles in varying weights from other manufactures are acceptable for use. For the SPR/DMR course, the Sierra 168 Grain HPBT is an excellent choice of projectile for weapons chambered in .308 Winchester/7.62mm NATO."
I guess because of difficulty in getting ammo they have changed their policy and are now letting students bring their own hand loads.
We understand that the majority of precision rifle shooters are avid handloaders attempting to extract every available ounce of precision performance from their weapon systems. We also understand that given the prices of match grade ammunition it is difficult to place a “factory ammo only” requirement on our courses, as this would severely limit our client base. With that being said, Magpul Dynamics must establish clear guidelines pertaining to the use of handloaded ammunition during training courses. It is to be understood that prior to attendance that all students will be required to sign a “Handload/Ammunition Waiver” regardless as to whether the student chooses to shoot factory ammunition or not.
-
It's more than doable. Guys are doing it all the time with 168gr FGMM. We can talk paper numbers all we want, but the proof is in the doing and it is done all the time. With ammo issues as they are right now, it doesn't make sense to restrict the course to only 175gr.
I'm not talking only paper numbers I have shot both 168 and 175 and i found the 175 have better consistant results out of my 20" 1:10 twist rem 700 and like Jonjon pulled up I guess magpul thinks the same
-
JonJon, I would use what you have or can get without killing you in cost. If you have 168gr FGMM run it. Many of us travel all over and run it out to 1200 without noticeable differences from the 175gr and that is out of a 19" suppressed rifle. Now if you are benchrest precision shooting then you might see some difference. From what I recall even the Magpul course is not a benchrest course unless if it has changed recently. I wouldn't sweat the difference when cost or availability is a concern.
-
JonJon, I would use what you have or can get without killing you in cost. If you have 168gr FGMM run it. Many of us travel all over and run it out to 1200 without noticeable differences from the 175gr and that is out of a 19" suppressed rifle. Now if you are benchrest precision shooting then you might see some difference. From what I recall even the Magpul course is not a benchrest course unless if it has changed recently. I wouldn't sweat the difference when cost or availability is a concern.
Surf - thanks for the advice. Luckily I was able to find some M118LR in Arizona at a good price, class starts tomorrow :D
-
Have fun!!! call me when you get back let me know how everything went...shoots ttyl
-
Have fun!!! call me when you get back let me know how everything went...shoots ttyl
Hey Richie - Just finished day one, learned a lot about fundamentals and learning about the correct way to set up your rifle. Only shot out to 100 yards today but did a number of different drills using Magpuls new training target, got our optics correctly zeroed and will be shooting out to 1138 yards tomorrow. Also won a free Pmag for being the top scorer in one of the two shooting competitions held today :D
-
Hey Richie - Just finished day one, learned a lot about fundamentals and learning about the correct way to set up your rifle. Only shot out to 100 yards today but did a number of different drills using Magpuls new training target, got our optics correctly zeroed and will be shooting out to 1138 yards tomorrow. Also won a free Pmag for being the top scorer in one of the two shooting competitions held today :D
Congrats on top scorer for one of the two day one competitions, and a Pmag to boot! :thumbsup:
-
Congrats on top scorer for one of the two day one competitions, and a Pmag to boot! :thumbsup:
Thanks Bunker :shaka:
Just finished day two - Awesome and eye opening. Confirmed zeros in the morning, next classroom session on wind than shot from 493 - 1030 yards in the afternoon. The wind today was crazy :shake: constant wind switching from different directions and at different speeds 5 - 15 mph with gust up to 20 mph. The instructor told us today was one of the hardest days to shoot in since he has been doing the class for the past two years. That being said, being thought how to make the correct settings and having the confidence in your gear allowed me let me to get first round hits on 18"x24" steel at 1030 yards :D That is the longest I have ever shot in my life and the first time I have ever shot in windy conditions.
Being in the class for the past two days has taught me more than I have learned in the past two years of trying to learn on my own(from the internet) Being taught the correct way by instructors with real world experience than applying those techniques immediately, is the best and fastest way to learn. I have not even finished the class but I would recommend this class to anyone, even for shooters who think they know everything. Some of the students in the class have over 40 years of shooting experience and have built 1000 yard guns but in the past two days I have seen them learn new things and humbled pretty often.
Tomorrow we will be shooting from barricades and unconventional shooting positions because in real world situations most times you are not able to shoot from prone.
-
Magpul Precision Rifle Day - 3
Yesterday the wind was really bad, today the wind was worst :shake: constant 15 mph full value wind with 25 mph gust, very challenging shooting at distance. Also all targets were of unknown distance and we had to range the targets only by using our reticle, I only have a mil dot reticle with no half mil marks but was able to successfully range out all of the targets from 415 yards to 830 yards. We then had to engage all of the targets without knowing the exact distance and were scored for each target, I came out third out of 10 all of my bad shots were because of me not correctly reading the difficult wind. I was actually holding 4 mils windage on some of the shots at 830 yards than because of the wind would have to change to 2 mils on the next shot. Today was a challenging day but it was also the best way to gain a lot of experience and DOPE ;)
-
Just got back last night from my trip to Yakima - will try to give after action review when I can. :shaka:
-
Some of the Magpul goodies that I both won and received while taking the class :D
-
Nice.
Is that a dope card on the left?
-
Nice.
Is that a dope card on the left?
Yup that was the one they help me set up for the ammo I was using for the class - the two black books on the right are the Magpul data books, one was supplied by the class the other one I won during one of the competions.