2aHawaii
General Topics => Legal and Activism => Topic started by: Funtimes on November 08, 2010, 06:46:26 PM
-
Hawaii Concealed Carry http://hawaiiccw.com (http://hawaiiccw.com)
Permit Initiative
“A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.†This quote of the Second Amendment, until recent times, had little meaning to many states within the United States. That is until a legal case, challenging the handgun ban in the District of Columbia, was brought to the Supreme Court of the United States.
In 2008, the Supreme Court of the United States ruled in Heller v. District of Columbia that the possession of a firearm, for the purpose of self-defense, was an individual right found within the Second Amendment to the U.S. constitution. Following Heller, on June 28th, 2010, the Supreme Court decided on another case which challenged the Chicago gun ban; this ban was also ruled unconstitutional, and the decision affirmed that the Second Amendment applies to the states through the Fourteenth Amendment. The right to keep and bear arms was also determined to be a fundamental constitutional right, putting it on par with the freedom of speech and religion. Therefore, citizens of our state should be authorized to exercise this right, safely and responsibly in all non-sensitive places.
The City and County of Honolulu have consistently restricted and continue to burden the right to keep and bear arms, especially in non-sensitive public places. For a timeline exceeding fifteen years, no citizen has been allowed to carry a firearm to defend themselves or their family. Many citizens have fallen victim to this violation of their constitutional rights, some paying the ultimate price.
Additionally, many believe that Hawaii businesses are afforded more protection than most citizens. By carrying a loaded and openly displayed firearm, many banks and other business are authorized to protect their assets out in public. These assets are commonly serialized and documented ensuring that they can be replaced and tracked. Most of the time these assets are also insured by either government agencies or private companies -- protecting the company from any real loss; yet they are still authorized to carry weapons, because it deters criminals. Your children and family, however, are not serialized; your children and family are not insured by the government, nor can your child, family member, or friend be replaced.
Lastly, in an effort to change these broken laws, a local group, Hawaii Concealed Carry, was formed in 2010 to promote the safe and responsible bearing of firearms, for the purpose of self-defense. They are based on Oahu, and are working to assist all Hawaiian islands in the restoration and exercise of their fundamental right to keep and bear arms. Hawaii residents are encouraged to exercise their fundamental right by applying to their local City and County Police departments for a permit to carry a firearm, openly or concealed, for the purpose of protecting yourself and your family
Information on applying for your Hawaii concealed or open carry permit can be found at www.hawaiiccw.com (http://www.hawaiiccw.com).
Aloha,
Christopher Baker
www.hawaiiccw.com (http://www.hawaiiccw.com)
Downloads available here: http://hawaiiccw.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/CCW-Request-Guide.pdf (http://hawaiiccw.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/CCW-Request-Guide.pdf)
-
Yes! This is what I've been waiting for! My letter is all done... 8)
I have duty the next 2 days, but I will be there on Friday with my application, $19.25, and notebook in hand.
Chris, I was thinking about putting together an information packet with a CCW application template (already addressed to the Chief of Police and the different "blocks" of information delineated...i.e., "1) General Background:" followed by some blank space for people to fill in; "2) Demonstration of Moral Character:", "3)Qualifications and Training:", "4) Reason(s) for Request:".), and instructions on filling out the application, and a 2aH sticker (of course). We could hand these out at Koko Head and gun shops this weekend and try to get as many applicants as possible.
What are your thoughts on this?
- Alex
-
My letter was done with a specific design and purpose. Unless someone has a really crazy reason, I don't think they will approve anyone regardless of the format.
That doesn't mean its not a fantastic idea! If someone can print out 50-60 of these and a gun store will pass them out we would certainly appreciate it. We need as large a pool as possible.
-
I concur that no one should expect to get approved. I just copied your format (not content) when I put together my letter because it was very well done.
I will go ahead and put together the packet tomorrow and print out a bunch that I can pass out at a couple of the gun shops (other than OGC...since Carter is on here, he can print out his own! :P). I will also make electronic copies of everything available to anyone who is interested if they want to go ahead and print out some as well and pass them around at KHSC, gun shops nearby, and to friends.
- Alex
-
Thanks Alex! Yeah if OGC and the other shops could pass out some info it will be beneficial. Even if they don't do it to support "us" if they pass it out to support themselves in the future it's a win-win situation.
-
Great move Chris. So this is officially being supported by the HRA?
-
Great move Chris. So this is officially being supported by the HRA?
I can't say for HRA if they are 'officially' supporting me saying to get permits. I was told by HiCarry the NRA think's its a good idea, and said I would get the word out -- he said he would too.. I just beat him to the punch =). If I am mistaken I am sure HiCarry will tell me, and I will change it.
Regardless, HCCW can still use more plaintiffs to expand the current pool.
:P I think I beat them to the punch putting this out based off some conversations between some of the NRA reps and HRA.
This is just our first step, it helps to have more then one available plaintiff and ensure that they can't say "well, no one applied!"
-
Great news.
Can you give a step-by-step of what I should expect?
Just walk up to the window and tell them I want to apply for a CCP?
Is there a mail in option?
BTW I drove all the way to Young Guns today and I saw a flyer there about rising up about the KHSC new hours. Dunno if it's their own flyer or someone else's but a good sign anyway.
-
If I get word that HRA is behind this action, it will be included in the December issue of the Hawaii Rifleman. To date, I've not heard anything from the other board members about this.
-
If I get word that HRA is behind this action, it will be included in the December issue of the Hawaii Rifleman. To date, I've not heard anything from the other board members about this.
This would be pretty hot off the press, mostly from the NRA luncheon and Friends of NRA Dinner from information and conversation between HiCarry, myself, Ms. Sandy Froman and Carolyn L. Herbertson.
Like I said I am not sure if it's officially endorsed by them. Their 'official' stance may be that they want to wait for the next legislative session; that may not be the stance of individual members though. That stance is certainly not mine. Currently, Hawaii Concealed Carry and it's supporters are behind this action and request.
-
Like I said I am not sure if it's officially endorsed by them. Their 'official' stance may be that they want to wait for the next legislative session; that may not be the stance of individual members though.
Then might I observe, without intending to offer offense, that in the initial post and the highlighted box currently on the forum home page, that you have spoken on behalf of the HRA? I'm sure you are simply excited and eager to get the ball moving.
-
Hrm... not sure why that post didn't update (The one on the front page). This action is by Hawaii CCW and it's supporters; and I believe this action will help anything the HRA decides to do officially, if anything, in the future. (It certainly can't hurt) I was in talks with some people, but then sought further clarification and yes I was little misunderstood on the "HRA's" position. I kind of should have known people would nit-pick every word and should have accounted for that in my post. Thanks Tom for pointing out the suggested stance given by my tone.
Don't take it as the HRA said do this. I am trying to have that front page altered, it doesn't appear to be directly linked to the post above, but I guess a highlight of what I originally put up.
-
Based on Article II of the Hawaii Rifle Association's Bylaws (http://www.hawaiirifleassociation.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=15&Itemid=34), I would think that they would be more than happy to officially support the push for increased applications for Concealed Carry Permits here in Hawaii. ???
- Alex
-
HRA's board has to meet to decide to support any cause or issue.. Which would probably be a while from now. I apologize for the confusion! =p.
Regardless, we still need plaintiffs. People have to fill out the permits and either be approved or denied to have legal standing.
-
Based on Article II of the Hawaii Rifle Association's Bylaws (http://www.hawaiirifleassociation.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=15&Itemid=34), I would think that they would be more than happy to officially support the push for increased applications for Concealed Carry Permits here in Hawaii. ???
It is explicit in the objectives of the organization to pursue the carry and use of firearms. You're right, says so right there in the HRA bylaws. I'm not saying HRA does or does not support this course of action in furtherance of that objective. I am saying that the HRA board has not discussed it, and pending such a discussion, any declarative statements about the HRA's position are premature.
-
Working on getting it fixed... 2a is the only one at this current time who can do that. We should lobby with each other :( not against! Ill fix it tom.
I'm out for the evening got a lot of work to do and things to prepare. Maybe the board can call each other on the phone and have a impromptu meeting or opinion. I have been devoting significant amounts of time and financial support to this don't really have time to waste.
-
We should lobby with each other :( not against!
You're preaching to the choir, brother!
-
I've updated the home page.
For those who don't know or don't check in that often, Funtimes has done a great job of getting in touch with many people from the NRA, HRA and other various organizations. While those organizations might not have an official stance, I'm willing to bet they will come out in support shortly. Thank you for the massive amount of work you have put in not only applying and setting up a possible lawsuit in persuit of concealed carry in Hawaii, but also for networking and bringing more people to the cause.
-
Thank you for being quick to fix update our stuff =). If it weren't for the ground work you (and all the others here) have laid, I probably would have never been interested.
-
Let's be clear...part of this action is based on several conversations Funtimes and I have had offline. He has tirelessly been trying to get something started here and we both agreed that we'd need to consider long and short term stategy. I have been trying to get info on the possible negitive aspects of a "apply for a CCW" campaign and after speaking to as meany people as I can, I came to the concusion that there was no appreciable down side to this. Based on this assessment, I suggested that if individuals wanted to apply for a CCW in anticipation of some future legal action, that there didn't seem to be a reason to advise them not to do so.
This is not an official recommendation from the HRA. As Tom mentioned, the goals of the HRA is to promote gun advocacy. I am sure the HRA would be supportive of your, and anyone's right to apply for a CCW. But as an organization it needs to have that discussioni among its leadership and allow the members to decide. And, remember, while the HRA may be supportive of your efforts, it doesn't necessarily mean it will put out an endorsement of this type of action. It may, but we won't know until we can meet to discuss this.
So, while it may not be endorsed by HRA at this point, it doesn't mean it isn't a good idea....you have to decide what works best for you and what you are willing to do. I think that in the near future we may get some support from HRA and possibly the NRA, your decision to do this needs to be independent of that possibility and based on your independent assessment of the benefits and risks.
And, despite any confusion based on the initial statment by Chris, I think he deserves a lot of credit for his efforts. Thanks Chris!
Aloha,
-
He has tirelessly been trying to get something started here ...
I think he deserves a lot of credit for his efforts. Thanks Chris!
Hear hear! Thank you, Chris, for your efforts! I, the individual, am happy to join you in this effort. Probably after Thanksgiving, but certainly before year's end!
-
Hey Guys,
The Wife and I were kinda discussing this thought.
We have a few questions about this action and it's ramifications....
How many people are we talking about here that will submit applications? Got any Meaningful numbers?
Got any Women signing up? They're the ones that Alaska's CCW law thru.
What kind of publicity will this generate? Good or Bad?
Is HRA/NRA again going to try to get the CCW law changed from "May" to "Shall" Issue? If so, How many legislators can WE count on for support?
Personally, We feel the biggest change is from "may issue" to Shall Issue will take care of everything.
Is there a Reason, HRA/NRA did Not undertake similar action earlier?
Is this the "right" time considering the "new" legislature will start in January?
WHO will be Against "Shall" issue and Why? Based on previous testimony, I can see the Hawaii Law Enforcement Coalition, Working With Anti 2A groups.
What agencies are in the Coalition? The various PDs, Prosecutor's Office, State AG and most likely some Federal agencies.
Not to mentionAnti 2A legislators and the new Democratic Governor. Do we know where the "new" legislators stand on 2A issues?
Will the Mayor take sides or stay neutral?
I'm willing to bet that the Anti crowd has their Wish List made up and are already knocking on doors lining up Support for their agenda.
Trying to get fence sitting legislators to Their side to push for more "bad" laws.
At this point, I'm curious as to just What laws HRA/NRA are going to Try and get changed or rescinded.
Just some thoughts out loud.
-
It seems that HawaiiCCW is seeking change via the lawsuit route rather than the legislative route. Honestly, with the way things move here in Hawaii combined with the new slew of antis that the citizens of Hawaii have elected to represent them, this seems like the best choice.
Regarding the number of applicants, I have absolutely no idea. I would love to think that we could easily get 100+ over the next month or two if everyone on the forum gets involved and starts passing stuff out to everyone they know at KHSC, the gun shops, other private ranges, as well as friends and family members.
I have already sent Chris the information packet that I intend to print out tomorrow and take around town this weekend, so once he approves it, we'll figure out a way to make it available to everyone electronically in case anyone else is interested in doing the same.
Oh, and I have at least 2 women that I know will be applying if I have my way. Add in your wife and some of her friends and we might start to get a tread going!
- Alex
-
It seems that HawaiiCCW is seeking change via the lawsuit route rather than the legislative route. Honestly, with the way things move here in Hawaii combined with the new slew of antis that the citizens of Hawaii have elected to represent them, this seems like the best choice.
+1
-
To play the Devil's Advocate......
Is there a Pro 2A attorney lined up?
Going to court Costs $$. Who is or has the DEEP Pocket to pay for all of this?
Do you know Who is on the "other" side in court?
What are the impications on the Natioanl level if we loose in court?
What kind of political fallout will there be? Locally and nationally?
How about "timing"? Is this the "right time" to start something that may get lost in the Christmas sales? Buried in the back pages?
Once the new legislative session begins, lots of things will be happening in the Capitol, do we have resources to cover all the legislative bases?
What other groups will benefit from having a CCW permit? Abused women who have TROs that don't work?
How about Gays who are attacked for being who they are? Minority groups?
The more diverse "our" side is, may generate More people/groups to join.
Just some more thoughts on the subject.
Plan ahead, expect the unexpected, have a back door just in case.
-
Is there a Pro 2A attorney lined up? Yes
Going to court Costs $$. Who is or has the DEEP Pocket to pay for all of this? The state has deep pockets, and they will end up paying for this ;). Like every other case that happened we wll obviously require some support from the community.
Do you know Who is on the "other" side in court? Take a look at other 2a suits, to see probably defendants.
What are the impications on the Natioanl level if we loose in court? I can't comment here.
What kind of political fallout will there be? Locally and nationally? They will hate us, they will hate our attorneys, they will hate me, people will cry, people will scream, we will be picketed, we will be on the news, the japanese tourism companies are going to shit the bed over this.
How about "timing"? Is this the "right time" to start something that may get lost in the Christmas sales? Buried in the back pages? Cases go for a while, there's no specific time imo.
Once the new legislative session begins, lots of things will be happening in the Capitol, do we have resources to cover all the legislative bases? Hawaii didn't have the best turn out for pro-gun. We will improve over the previous years in terms of testimony (I believe), knowledge and action. But to be honest, don't look to the legislature to solve our problems (just my opinion). They might not create more problems, but I don't see them solving any.
What other groups will benefit from having a CCW permit? Abused women who have TROs that don't work?
How about Gays who are attacked for being who they are? Minority groups? I
Everyone benefits, if they wanted to carrry a weapon concealed regardless of any minority standing =). However, If you know any of these people, please have them contact me personally.
-
Regarding the money issue, I would like to think that the SAF would pick up our case, just like they have been doing in California and elsewhere around the country. I really think that since we aren't part of the mainland, people forget about us. Even some of the big-time West Coast 2a advocates forget that while CCW is technically available to us, permits are not being issued out. In my opinion, this is one of the biggest things holding us back; we NEED to get the word out, and doing a mass CCW permit application is one of many ways to do this (I have several other ideas to discuss at the meeting as well).
As far as fallout is concerned, I think that if we do our part to educate other pro-2a groups around the country about our current situation, I think that on a national level, we will get more support than we are expecting. Locally, as Chris said...they're gonna hate us. Oh well.
And from the resources standpoint, I think getting people involved by getting them to first submit a CCW permit (which will subsequently get denied) is a great way to get more people involved in the legislative side as well.
But all of this is simply my opinion, and I've been wrong many times before. O0
- Alex
-
Nice too see the ball start to roll. If I can remember the application for the Big Island there is a question on "why do you need to carry?". If someone lucks out and actually gets through you'll have to take a "shooting test" at the PD range. Oahu's one is harder then B.I.'s ( bullseye style target with numbers in each ring, need to score set number to pass), Big Island test has human silloute, need to place shots in "kill zones" to pass, no head shots.
When construction took a dump I jumped on the first job I could find which was working for an ATM company. The firearm training they give is a joke, they went over the basic safety/gun models and that was about it. I think that that they did not want to be liable if an employee had to protect themselves so they basically said "even though your armed just throw down the money and run away". There was no scenario training (they did hint to us that if we did have to shoot that we were on our own, no legal help from the company) The permit I had was for open carry only, I should have made a copy of the permit badge before I quit.
-
Big island should be following Hawaii Revised Statutes, unless I am mistaken; there is no requirement for a shooting test. I have seen the open carry permit, stopped an ATM guy the other day and he was very happy to show it to me.
-
Hmm, maybe it was a company thing but if you failed the shooting qualification you didn't get the permit. We had to go to Hilo and shoot at the indoor range with the departments range guy.
-
Hmm, maybe it was a company thing but if you failed the shooting qualification you didn't get the permit. We had to go to Hilo and shoot at the indoor range with the departments range guy.
Could have been. The companies are required to provide that you have been trained in the usage of the firearm to the police (From what I understand). If the police told someone that.... heh... :) would love to know.
-
The first 50 CCW application packets are done...leaving now to go apply for my permit and to pass out these packets to some of the local gun shops.
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/alex_europa/5169669247/)
The forms are available to anyone who wants them at the following links:
CCW Packet Intro: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Zr7bVfxpdq2IsBp6VomqM2z6TzLbQ9gUFGNDRhvwaZw/edit?hl=en&authkey=CJrmrroK# (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Zr7bVfxpdq2IsBp6VomqM2z6TzLbQ9gUFGNDRhvwaZw/edit?hl=en&authkey=CJrmrroK#)
CCW Application Instructions: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1v2Qc1CrK6iC-wUOk5fe6leE1VAa8dlShnaTdhduSnsk/edit?hl=en&authkey=CPj2oIYD# (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1v2Qc1CrK6iC-wUOk5fe6leE1VAa8dlShnaTdhduSnsk/edit?hl=en&authkey=CPj2oIYD#)
CCW Application (Blank): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1z5DXlx5mM-1B6CNdFJgTK7nKRGPSxXJfEGncrp2RiP0/edit?hl=en (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1z5DXlx5mM-1B6CNdFJgTK7nKRGPSxXJfEGncrp2RiP0/edit?hl=en)
If anyone has any questions, comments, or anything they would like me to add, just let me know.
- Alex
ETA: I've updated the Application Instructions to reflect the additional required photographs and information for the firearm that one intends to carry concealed (I guess we don't get to swap out weapons :wtf:). I also tried to change the permissions on the Google Docs, so hopefully everyone can get to them now.
ETA Again: 2aHawaii, thanks for reposting my picture....I can't seem to get it to work. ???
-
Thank you Alex!
-
Hey Alex,
I think you have to change the permissions on your docs. I get an error when trying to view them.
(http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1179/5169669247_43cd9a4e80_b_d.jpg)
-
Update, I'm getting passport photos taken now...didn't know that they were required.
And I figured the docs might be a problem, I tried to upload them from work and kept getting error messages. I'll fix them tonight.
-Alex
-
Update, I'm getting passport photos taken now...didn't know that they were required.
And I figured the docs might be a problem, I tried to upload them from work and kept getting error messages. I'll fix them tonight.
-Alex
Crap! I totally forgot about that passport photo since it wasn't in the statute. I want to know what they want them for, because it's not on the permits (that I saw). The open carry permit I looked at didn't have a photo on it. I should go and ask them for it back.
-
I finished the application process. Some of the highlights:
1) One of the officers didn't exactly try to dissuade me from applying, but he did tell me that it's at "the Chief's discretion" and "no one has been approved in 15 years." (Thanks to the FOIA, we know this isn't exactly true, but I wasn't going to argue with them about the 3 that have been approved). ---Chris I will email you will all of the information, including the officer's name.
2) He also told me that I should elaborate beyond "Self Defense" for my reason to carry. I simply told him, "No thank you. The Supreme Court has found that Self Defense is the only reason that I need." He looked at me kinda funny and just said OK.
3) I didn't know that I needed the passport photos, so I drove about a mile away and had them taken; it only took me about 10 minutes.
4) Regarding the photos, there is a place on the bottom of the CCW permit for them to attach the photos to. I did ask them why they wanted the pictures since they knew it was going to get denied. They simply said, "Because you're applying." I wasn't going to argue with them that it's not anywhere in the statute.
5) For the most part, they were helpful and I can't say that I blame them for their "hesitance."
6) While I was waiting, I handed out about 10 of the information packets, so hopefully that will help gain some interest. :thumbsup:
After I left, I headed over to Security Equipment Corp and gave them some information packets. I was planning on getting around to a few other shops, but it was already 3pm and I didn't want to get stuck in traffic. If anyone else has the time, I would appreciate it if they would pass out more of the packets at the gun shops. I will also drop some off at Koko Head this Sunday when I go.
- Alex
-
For those of you who think that this whole thing is a big waste of time and have not seen this yet:
http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/news/157-sykes-sacramento-settle (http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/news/157-sykes-sacramento-settle)
I know that the current application process is a huge time-sink, but we CAN make a difference here in Hawaii!
- Alex
-
The more people that apply, the more people the state has to justify why they denied these people.... but let these others get it ;o.
-
The more people that apply, the more people the state has to justify why they denied these people.... but let these others get it ;o.
I hope you guys are bringing this packet to the meeting tomorrow. I have several friends ( I will apply next week) that will probably go apply with me with some good old fashion friendly poking...Hell, I will even drive them and buy them lunch. Pig is prepped and ready to cook. Got a table and some chairs...looking forward to whomever is coming. This is a no frills event. Call for directions.
If you are not coming because you are short on time, don't have anything to bring, or nervous...don't be. We are some of the friendliest gun enthusiasts you will ever meet!
Stop by and meet some fellow members and show your face.
Together We Stand, Divided We fall.
Call for directions.
Chuck
398-0087
-
Yes please, if it's only to stop by and say hello join us for a little bit grab a plate to go if you have to!
-
Yes please, if it's only to stop by and say hello join us for a little bit grab a plate to go if you have to!
A plate to go is easily done. Got 9 pounds of Kalua Pork cooking....if you don't come get some..I will be eating it for days (also not a problem :thumbsup:)
-
I hope you guys are bringing this packet to the meeting tomorrow. I have several friends ( I will apply next week) that will probably go apply with me with some good old fashion friendly poking...Hell, I will even drive them and buy them lunch. Pig is prepped and ready to cook. Got a table and some chairs...looking forward to whomever is coming. This is a no frills event. Call for directions.
You know you can just download all of the pages of the packet in my post on Page 2, right? ;)
But yes, I'll be bringing them with me tomorrow.
- Alex
-
I hope you guys are bringing this packet to the meeting tomorrow. I have several friends ( I will apply next week) that will probably go apply with me with some good old fashion friendly poking...Hell, I will even drive them and buy them lunch. Pig is prepped and ready to cook. Got a table and some chairs...looking forward to whomever is coming. This is a no frills event. Call for directions.
You know you can just download all of the pages of the packet in my post on Page 2, right? ;)
But yes, I'll be bringing them with me tomorrow.
- Alex
Great, the optest on my garage printer failed.... :(
-
Thanks Alex for putting the forms together.
-
Not a problem! Please hand them out to every gun owner that you know! Going to the range? Bring some packets. Going to a gun shop? Bring some packets. Hell, going to the mall...bring some packets! :geekdanc:
- Alex
-
Thanks for those packets Alex. Makes it a lot easier to do this. :shaka:
What's up with the photos? Didn't see or hear of anything like that before.
-
Well, there is a place on the bottom of the application that you fill out at the Firearms Division for them to attach the photos to, but they conveniently left out that tidbit of information. It's almost like they want to make it difficult and time consuming to apply or something...nah, that CAN'T be it. ::)
- Alex
-
OK, it's been 1 week...7 days...
Status report: Who else has made it down to apply for their permit? Who has passed out flyers? Where? Who has any questions for Chris or myself about the process or their application? Where are we on getting an official stance from the HRA on this?
- Alex
-
I believe this is the youngblood they were seeking too. Anywhos, may the momentum never stop!
-
Just printin some more of Alex's papers out. :popcorn: Sorry but I'm double-siding it to save paper :oops:
I'm a slow starter but once I get warmed up I'm g2g ;D
-
I passed out some today. Have a few interested parties. Hard to talk about it at work because we have shit to do, but I will keep banging away. Got 2 at least that want to go soon. One is CPO in my building who is a repeat . He went once and was told not to bother. He didn't go much past that and was bewildered after reading the handout.
He was also rather pissed off.. ;)
-
Any official position from HRA will be a while, as no board meeting are scheduled until after the first of the new year...but, I will see if I can talk to folks in the meantime and if we might be able to do something sooner....
-
That would be good...this is a relatively short-fused action.
ETA: Doesn't the legislative session start up in January...? I'm kinda surprised that there aren't any BOD meetings before then.
- Alex
-
That would be good...this is a relatively short-fused action.
ETA: Doesn't the legislative session start up in January...? I'm kinda surprised that there aren't any BOD meetings before then.
- Alex
Legislative agenda was formulated in the last couple of meetings and are being effected by the appropriate members of the legislative committee....alreay spoke to some legislators and am planning meetings with others "as we speak."
-
Legislative agenda was formulated in the last couple of meetings and are being effected by the appropriate members of the legislative committee....alreay spoke to some legislators and am planning meetings with others "as we speak."
Should hit me up when you get a meeting with some of these guys. I would be very interested to sit down and listen, and discuss if wanted some of the issues.
What stuff are we looking at for the session? And what hurdles do we think we will have at this point for whatever we do.
-
Time again for the weekly check-in.
I hit up all of the pro-gun types that I know of at work. Yesterday, Chris and I met up at the MPPL/USPSA pistol match: we handed out application packets, a new flyer that Chris put together, and talked to a bunch of people. Chris also took a bunch of video and pictures, so we'll see what he ends up doing with that.
Everyone else: Status Report. Who applied? Who passed out application packets? HRA?
- Alex
-
Videos are up on youtube, photos are up on flikr. Uploading more as people contact me.
-
nice vids. looks like fun.
-
The application packets will be posted on the HRA website along with a brief statement about the HRA supporting both the right to carry a concealed carry and the exercise of that right by those so inclined by applying for a CCW permit. I will also ask (Chris, I assume it's OK to do so...) that the HawaiiCCW site be linked to for additional info.
I only had time to briefly review the application documents from this thread, and saw there was at least one minor edit needed before I can post it. If those documents have been updated, let me know, otherwise I will make those minor corrections and get everything posted. I am also thinking a small blurb in the next HRA newsletter might be a good idea.....
Sorry it's taken me a while but work has been crazy....
-
That's great news! Thanks HiCarry!!!! :shaka:
Feel free to make any changes to the application packets that you feel are necessary; please PM me with the changes as well and I can edit the documents linked in this thread. Regarding the HRA newsletter, I don't want to spill the beans in case things aren't finalized, but I know Chris is working on something.
It's GREAT to have the HRA onboard! So when are you going to put in your application...? ;)
- Alex
-
The application packets will be posted on the HRA website along with a brief statement about the HRA supporting both the right to carry a concealed carry and the exercise of that right by those so inclined by applying for a CCW permit. I will also ask (Chris, I assume it's OK to do so...) that the HawaiiCCW site be linked to for additional info.
I only had time to briefly review the application documents from this thread, and saw there was at least one minor edit needed before I can post it. If those documents have been updated, let me know, otherwise I will make those minor corrections and get everything posted. I am also thinking a small blurb in the next HRA newsletter might be a good idea.....
Sorry it's taken me a while but work has been crazy....
Make any changes required, I know you will make it look much more eloquent and professional =). Tom has already spoken to me about the newsletter, and I am working on that shortly. Got behind this last week in school so I'm hustling hard.
-
Revised Documents are up and can be found here:
http://hawaiiccw.com/?attachment_id=566 (http://hawaiiccw.com/?attachment_id=566) (PDF)
http://hawaiiccw.com/?attachment_id=567 (http://hawaiiccw.com/?attachment_id=567) (Word)
-
The new packet looks GREAT! Very professional! WAY better than the disorganized mess that I put together.
BTW, why didn't you put the HCCW logo on there?
- Alex
-
Will do that for next one. These packets right now are printed out on on some ad's and envelopes with my logo site and name. (the ones im taking down)
-
Week 3 SITREP!
Who has done what?!
Come on guys...Chris can't do everything on his own. I know everyone is crazy busy right now with the holidays, but the legislative session is coming up fast. I know this is going to come off as brash, but if you're an active member of this forum, the 2ND AMENDMENT HAWAII FORUM, and you haven't yet gone down and submitted your application, then you are WRONG. I'm sure there is a small section of people who have a legitimate reason for not applying YET, but I think that it's a pretty small percentage, and the operative word is YET. If you haven't yet applied, why not?! Even if you haven't been able to contribute 1 HOUR of your time to fight for your 2nd Amendment rights, then have you at least printed out some packets and passed them out? Or simply left them sitting in a small stack on a bench in Borders? Anything? ANYBODY?!
- Alex
-
Wow I should be more active on this forum. I heard a little about this at one of the gun stores a couple of weekends ago. I am thinking I should also apply. Have a lot of people done so already?
-
Well, we do have a meeting this Friday. We'd love it if you can make it! :shaka:
http://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=858.0 (http://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=858.0)
- Alex
-
Week 3 SITREP!
Who has done what?!
Come on guys...Chris can't do everything on his own. I know everyone is crazy busy right now with the holidays, but the legislative session is coming up fast. I know this is going to come off as brash, but if you're an active member of this forum, the 2ND AMENDMENT HAWAII FORUM, and you haven't yet gone down and submitted your application, then you are WRONG. I'm sure there is a small section of people who have a legitimate reason for not applying YET, but I think that it's a pretty small percentage, and the operative word is YET. If you haven't yet applied, why not?! Even if you haven't been able to contribute 1 HOUR of your time to fight for your 2nd Amendment rights, then have you at least printed out some packets and passed them out? Or simply left them sitting in a small stack on a bench in Borders? Anything? ANYBODY?!
- Alex
I am going down Weds and bringing a friend or two to apply as this is my first chance to take some time off work since the we held the meeting.
Who else is coming?
Don't be scared to break the mold folks...
-
Sending mine in tomorrow Brother! Chris motivated me on Sunday! I also have to register firearms as well! So why not send it in!
-
Two of us are heading down tomorrow around lunch to put in our permits...after that we are going to OGC to drool. Whos coming with us?
Chuck.
-
Did you have a planned time? I might be able to make it out on my break.
Oh shit wait I have to get passport photos.
-
Oh shit wait I have to get passport photos.
Costo!
-
I pull double shift today and tomorrow so there's no way in hell I can make costco & HPD during my lunch hour lol.
Are the photos same day? Where at in there anyway? I'll have to go on Friday.
-
You know where the Walmart is in downtown? There is a small photo lab (it has a neon sign in the window that says Passport Photos) just across the street from Walmart (and about a block away from Walgreens). That's where I went to get my pictures taken...it cost me $9 and they were done in less than 10 minutes.
- Alex
-
Did you have a planned time? I might be able to make it out on my break.
Oh shit wait I have to get passport photos.
you can do them yourself. Just have to follow the right rules... it's not hard.
-
I would love to make this meeting Friday but no can. Next one for sure though.
-
I pull double shift today and tomorrow so there's no way in hell I can make costco & HPD during my lunch hour lol.
Are the photos same day? Where at in there anyway? I'll have to go on Friday.
No worries...got volunteer (nice way to put it) for some work stuff in the time i was gonna go...we are going Thursday now instead. Leaving my neck of the woods around 11:30 AM.
-
Roger! If I get my pictures done tomorrow during lunch, I can make it on thursday during my lunch hour!
-
Roger! If I get my pictures done tomorrow during lunch, I can make it on thursday during my lunch hour!
I love it when a plan comes together...maybe we will try to get pic tomorrow instead of sloughing off the entire afternoon from work on Thursday... ::)
-
Yeah that whole spanning it over two days thing is kind of a PITA, but my own damn fault for putting it off for too long. I can't show up at the meeting without having done the process! lol.
Want to print me out a shirt that says ASK ME ABOUT CONCEALED CARRY IN HAWAII and go apply lol.
-
Want to print me out a shirt that says ASK ME ABOUT CONCEALED CARRY IN HAWAII and go apply lol.
Good idea!
-
I think you are making an impact....I was at the Firearms Registration office this morning to register a "new" rifle and start the process for a "new" handgun. I walk up to the window and there is an "older" guy who recognizes me (he asked my GF the last time she went in if I was 'OK' as they hadn't seen me in to register a gun in a while...) and a new guy he's helping. I say "hi" to the one guy I know, explain what I need to do to the new guy, and from the back of the office I hear one of the other officers yell out "ask him if he's going to apply for a concealed carry permit as well...."
Hopefully I have all my paperwork done so I can do it when I pick up my PTA in two weeks.......
-
... I hear one of the other officers yell out "ask him if he's going to apply for a concealed carry permit as well...."
BWAHAHAHAHA! Classic! :D
Now I'm curious to see how many people have applied...
- Alex
-
... I hear one of the other officers yell out "ask him if he's going to apply for a concealed carry permit as well...."
BWAHAHAHAHA! Classic! :D
Now I'm curious to see how many people have applied...
- Alex
I have to ask, is this because they know you and was this sarcastic, or has the mindset actually changed? Either way, I am intrigued to say the least. Will post my experiences after I go down there.
-
... I hear one of the other officers yell out "ask him if he's going to apply for a concealed carry permit as well...."
BWAHAHAHAHA! Classic! :D
Now I'm curious to see how many people have applied...
- Alex
I have to ask, is this because they know you and was this sarcastic, or has the mindset actually changed? Either way, I am intrigued to say the least. Will post my experiences after I go down there.
Not sure....I know a few of the officers there, but I couldn't see who yelled that out. But, it sure sounded sarcastic to me.....
-
... I hear one of the other officers yell out "ask him if he's going to apply for a concealed carry permit as well...."
BWAHAHAHAHA! Classic! :D
Now I'm curious to see how many people have applied...
- Alex
I have to ask, is this because they know you and was this sarcastic, or has the mindset actually changed? Either way, I am intrigued to say the least. Will post my experiences after I go down there.
Not sure....I know a few of the officers there, but I couldn't see who yelled that out. But, it sure sounded sarcastic to me.....
That's what I was wondering. No way they would sincerely say "welcome Sir, can I help you with a concealed handgun permit today" ::)
-
Nice!
If I could go down there with packets ready made and hand them out right infront of the police department I would.
-
Nice!
If I could go down there with packets ready made and hand them out right infront of the police department I would.
They let us put the HRA newsletter out on the small table, maybe you could set up a little rack and put the application packets there....
-
Nice!
If I could go down there with packets ready made and hand them out right infront of the police department I would.
They let us put the HRA newsletter out on the small table, maybe you could set up a little rack and put the application packets there....
That would be cool =p. I think my stuff would go over like a fart in church though! Could just drop some off lol.
-
I'm going back wed, when i pick up my long gun renewal.
when i went the first time, i guess i didn't read the instructions well enough, and didn't bring the firearm registration info
-
Also, i was wondering... has anyone received formal notice of being denied yet?
-
Nice!
If I could go down there with packets ready made and hand them out right infront of the police department I would.
They let us put the HRA newsletter out on the small table, maybe you could set up a little rack and put the application packets there....
That would be cool =p. I think my stuff would go over like a fart in church though! Could just drop some off lol.
You could use that as fuel for your fire too. If they remove or deny your packets but allow HRA's newsletters, then they obviously have a discrepancy with it. They don't want law-abiding gun-owners to have more information regarding their available rights, they feel it's hostile to their disarming agenda, etc. I'd love to see what they say if you ask them if you can leave it there :crazy:
If anything, it would be a new headline for hawaiiCCW.com
-
Nice!
If I could go down there with packets ready made and hand them out right infront of the police department I would.
Been there, done that. Well, not out in front of the PD...It was while I was waiting in line at the Firearms Registration Unit. :thumbsup:
Also, i was wondering... has anyone received formal notice of being denied yet?
I was supposed to hear back on the 26th, but I figured I would give them a couple extra days. I called today and was given the name of the background checker guy and told that he was out of the office but to call back later. That was around 1pm, then I got sucked into meetings for the rest of the afternoon so I never got a chance to call back..but I will first thing in the morning. Once I know more, I'll be sure to post it here.
- Alex
-
Really have to wonder Why HPD doesn't already have packets ready for those who want long gun or handgun aps.
Never mind stupid question, So much for the "Serve" part of Protect and Serve. Wait, HPD doesn't say that do they.....
-
OK, I called HPD again this morning. I was told that they hadn't heard anything back yet (tomorrow will be 3 weeks from the date of application) so it is "either on the Chief's desk or in transit." ::)
- Alex
-
Mine came about a week or so after the date, I called and the Sgt. said he just sent me the letter in the mail Two days later I received the denial in the mail.
-
Perhaps this delay is a sign that they are huddling; thinking of what their next move is?
I need to stop speculating...
-
2 of us went down today, filled out the paperwork, gave up our $4.99 COSTCO passport photos.
1. They did not charge us $19.25 - If you have bought a gun here, you have paid it already.
2. They did not ask us any questions that did not pertain to the application process.
3. No real issues, they were "extremely" friendly....as if someone has told them to be that way. The paperwork was at the counter,
they did not have to go grab it from anywhere.
4. Quick and very easy, so get down there and get it done.
Be sure to bring the registration paperwork on the gun you will list on the form.
Waiting for my denial paperwork... :shake:
-
2 of us went down today, filled out the paperwork,
Awesome Chuck! Way to be proactive and get others involved!
3. No real issues, they were "extremely" friendly....as if someone has told them to be that way. The paperwork was at the counter,
they did not have to go grab it from anywhere.
I think at this point we would be very naive to believe that people at HPD haven't found this thread, read the packet, etc...
- Alex
-
Sun Tzu, know your enemy, 1,ooo battle, 1,ooo victories.
Probaly reading our play book.
NEVER underestimate the opposition. they have lawyer(s) on their payroll........
-
Sun Tzu, know your enemy, 1,ooo battle, 1,ooo victories.
Probaly reading our play book.
NEVER underestimate the opposition. they have lawyer(s) on their payroll........
The play book is not published =p.
Alex- They have always been nice, I told you guys this =).
-
I haven't tried this but I did a little searching for an online passport photo generator and found idphoto4you (http://www.idphoto4you.com/index.php?Target=SamplePage). I am not too sure of the photo requirements but this should let you print your own passport photos. I'm sorry if I'm wrong about that though.
-
The pig is on the burner..looking forward to seeing some of you over tonight for the 2a meeting.
-
No applications on the table at HPD today. No HRA newsletters either. Don't know if they ran out or...
-
Turned in my concealed carry application today! I have faith that Hawaii is Constitutional and therefore will follow their legal obligations, and I'm heartily awaiting my acceptance reply! :crazy:
-
No comments from them Dregs?
-
Absolutely no comment or anything of significance to report captain.
-
Alright everyone; we're at the 1 month mark. Time to check in.
For myself, I have still not heard back about my application; Friday will be 4 weeks from when I submitted it. I will call again on Thursday, and if they don't have an answer for me, then I will start working my way up the chain until I find someone who does have the answers. On Wednesday, I passed out flyers on one of the bases on the island, I attended the meeting on Friday (awesome time), handed out flyers at a different base on Saturday, and wore my HawaiiCCW shirt to the MPPL pistol match on Sunday (BTW, Chris I managed to get a couple quasi-pre-orders :geekdanc:).
The following active forum members have either not applied (or informed us that they applied) or given a timeline as to when they will be applying:
- TomG
- Heavies
- Antithesis
- Jaydawg (maybe?)
- tonsofguns
- OldGuy
- bushmasta
- Redtail
- stegosaurus
- 808shooter
- Deeeeviant
Some people aren't going to be happy with this list, and here is my response: if you don't like the FACTS, then change them. If there is some reason why you do not feel comfortable applying, then share it with the group; maybe someone else has the same concern as well. Lastly, I want to say that I'm not judging anyone who hasn't applied, so please don't take this personally. However, after my Week 3 SITREP, I at least expected a couple more people to share their thoughts and actions. All I am asking is for this forum's membership to call a spade a spade and be honest with the group. Even if you haven't/don't intend to submit an application, what else have you done to bolster the cause? Have you handed out flyers to coworkers, friends, or at Koko Head? What do you plan to do this week?
- Alex
-
All I am asking is for this forum's membership to call a spade a spade and be honest with the group. Even if you haven't/don't intend to submit an application, what else have you done to bolster the cause? Have you handed out flyers to coworkers, friends, or at Koko Head? What do you plan to do this week?
What I plan to do this week is my job. What I plan to do next week is go on vacation. I'm sorry of the years of service I've been putting in aren't enough for you. When am I going to go apply? When it's convenient to me, not to you.
Congratulations. You have found a successful way to piss me off.
-
AE, FT - Will notify you all when I get a reply from the HPD, and I turely appreciate your efforts to get the ball rolling! :geekdanc:
Thank You Guys for lighting a fire under my ass! :D
V/R
sk
-
Alex,
I am glad that you and Funtimes have started something that may enable the citizens of Hawaii to protect themselves. Your efforts and enthuisasm are much appreciated. However, Please do not be pushy about the subject.
Am I happy about the laws and restrictions that Hawaii imposes on us? NO
Do I do what I can for the cause? YES
Do I have to justify when, where, or why I have done this or done that? NO
If you want people to go ahead with your plans to advance the cause of 2A rights, it helps not to insult them.
I have to agree with Tom.
When it's convenient to me, not to you.
:thumbsup:
-
Alex,
I am glad that you and Funtimes have started something that may enable the citizens of Hawaii to protect themselves. Your efforts and enthuisasm are much appreciated. However, Please do not be pushy about the subject.
Am I happy about the laws and restrictions that Hawaii imposes on us? NO
Do I do what I can for the cause? YES
Do I have to justify when, where, or why I have done this or done that? NO
If you want people to go ahead with your plans to advance the cause of 2A rights, it helps not to insult them.
I have to agree with Tom.
When it's convenient to me, not to you.
:thumbsup:
It is discouraging when the only portions of the forum, one of the main places for 2A in Hawaii are supporting. People support in different ways, and Tom - I'm sorry you have been irritated.. I appreciate what you did for us. Many flyers have been passed out because of you.
I work really damn hard at this, and so do some other people. I can't imagine very many people being half as busy as I am. We just like to know who's doing what so we aren't double or mixing efforts.
The goal was to get as many people in and applied that we can. If you can't do it, that's fine. If you can do it, that's fine too. I'm a no bullshit type of person and tell it straight. Right now, applications are somewhat time sensitive.
People also must understand us young people are a little more direct and to the point, and like to see support in return for the efforts they make. Alex is busting his ass to help me and just want's others to help in. There is lots to do, and I really mean lots. I'm putting in a good 20-30 hours of this a week easy.
If you aren't interested then don't worry about this thread. If your helping us already.. a big thank you from me to you. If your not helping in any form well, thanks for being on the other side! It doesn't take much to help at all really, talking to your friends at work, striking up a conversation with old buddies or family about the second amendment, printing out a few flyers passing them out, downloading and submitting a 2 hour application for a conceal carry permit, editorials, video, SEO, photos are all things we can use help with.
:shaka: :shaka:
-
What I plan to do this week is my job. What I plan to do next week is go on vacation. I'm sorry of the years of service I've been putting in aren't enough for you. When am I going to go apply? When it's convenient to me, not to you.
Congratulations. You have found a successful way to piss me off.
Tom,
As I said in my post, it wasn't personal in any way. I'm not sure if it made you even more upset that your name was at the top of the list, but if so, it was simply because you have the 2nd highest post count other than 2aH himself and I simply went in order from the top. I am sorry that you were offended, that truly was not my intention. My intention was merely to try to understand why the people who have been fighting for this the longest haven't been more vocal about the issue. To me, it seems like everything that you have been fighting for for years is coming to a head RIGHT NOW, yet at times I feel like we are swimming against the current even amongst our own ranks. Each week, I've posted asking for updates as to what others from this forum are doing to help us out, and continued to receive nothing but silence. I find it particularly frustrating that the individuals with the most experience and knowledge within Hawaii's pro-gun arena appear to have zero interest in passing on that knowledge or expertise to those of us who are simply flying by the seats of our pants and doing the best job that we can. Do your numerous years of fighting for gun rights count? Absolutely! What can we do to tap into that wealth of information? However, myself and others are having a difficult time wrapping our minds around the possible reason(s) that yourself and others appear to be disinterested in doing something extremely easy, yet extremely IMPORTANT, when the time has come for Hawaii's citizens to fight for the BIGGEST issue related to 2A rights.
- Alex
-
(http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/us.capitol/one.jpg)
They were busy. They had jobs, families, and a life outside their beliefs. They would have been put to death for even mentioning what they believed in.
It wasn’t convenient to them….it was necessary.
-
Alex and FunT - I am so glad you are here! Maybe you both need to be in the HRA as board members to get things going! does anyone second that? I would love to nominate you both for a leader ship position in the HRA if I had my way. Tell you the truth, I have been bogged down by some of the folks who have been fighting for Hawaii Gun rights since being here. Chris inspired me to get the CCW last Sunday. He is real and working his a$$ off. In fact, when I have the chance to shoot at some of the matches he is there. Measurement of Performance (MOP) I would like to say. I honestly do not know what the folks at the HRA are doing, but it must be something, but what is it? Alex, once stated that the HRA does a FUNSHOOT, COWBOY SHOOT, and some other time honored events. Hell most of the folks are volunteers and we appreciate it but I too have not seen anything from the organization WRT protecting H2A. I'll probably get blasted for this but you know what.....AE and FT are out there and they are making a difference IMHO. Some folks need to grow some thicker skin and stop making excuses. They want results pure and simple.
You guys have my support!
If I am denied I'll apply again.
Damm...the worst thing they can say is no.
Oh by the way, the folks a the HPD know about the site so what do you have to loose. I overheard some of the guys behind the firearms window talking about the site a while back.
SK
-
Alex and FunT - I am so glad you are here! Maybe you both need to be in the HRA as board members to get things going! does anyone second that? I would love to nominate you both for a leader ship position in the HRA if I had my way. Tell you the truth, I have been bogged down by some of the folks who have been fighting for Hawaii Gun rights since being here. Chris inspired me to get the CCW last Sunday. He is real and working his a$$ off. In fact, when I have the chance to shoot at some of the matches he is there. Measurement of Performance (MOP) I would like to say. I honestly do not know what the folks at the HRA are doing, but it must be something, but what is it? Alex, once stated that the HRA does a FUNSHOOT, COWBOY SHOOT, and some other time honored events. Hell most of the folks are volunteers and we appreciate it but I too have not seen anything from the organization WRT protecting H2A. I'll probably get blasted for this but you know what.....AE and FT are out there and they are making a difference IMHO. Some folks need to grow some thicker skin and stop making excuses. They want results pure and simple.
You guys have my support!
If I am denied I'll apply again.
Damm...the worst thing they can say is no.
Oh by the way, the folks a the HPD know about the site so what do you have to loose. I overheard some of the guys behind the firearms window talking about the site a while back.
SK
If you want to see what a website can do when it has people supporting it check out:
http://www.georgiacarry.org/ (http://www.georgiacarry.org/)
http://www.georgiapacking.org/ (http://www.georgiapacking.org/)
-
Oh by the way, the folks a the HPD know about the site so what do you have to loose. I overheard some of the guys behind the firearms window talking about the site a while back.
Interesting...I wonder if any of them are members...? :o :shaka:
ETA: I does make me wonder if that's the reason why my application is taking even longer than Chris' did. One of the downsides of using your real name on the internet I suppose. Oh well. >:D
- Alex
-
Alex - you forgot me. I haven't applied yet either.
Let me fill you in on a few things. HRA is an ALL volunteer organization. Most of the active members have been at this for many years. And while we all appreciate Chris' efforts, I can tell you that I routinely put in 20+ hours a week on volunteer activity directly related to gun rights issues, and have been for several years now. Others put in similar time and effort. If not for HRA, you would not have the ability to have a handgun in the state of Hawaii right now. Yeah, that's right, we'd be in a similar situation as DC and Chicago in terms of handgun bans. In addition, you'd have to re-register your guns yearly, there would be a .50 cal ban, ammunition marking, firing pin marking, etc. Where were you when we were fighting for your rights for these very important issues?
No one is questioning your willingness to change things, but I would strongly suggest you temper your remarks, especially about individuals who may not have "performed" as you would have hoped. I personally lamented the lack of support for submitting testimony for gun related issues over the years. In reality, submitting testimony is much, much easier than completing the CCW application and going to HPD to submit it. So, where is your outrage over those that couldn't find the time to submit testimony? My point is that folks will do what they can and that you need to be more accepting of those that may have problems following in your footsteps. Tom, over the years has devoted more time, energy, and money toward supporting our Second Amendmednt rights than Chris or you. Are you more "active" at this point in time? Maybe, but pissing off some of your staunchest supporters is counter productive to your overall efforts.
I am all for being "to the point" and have frequently been told I am too blunt and politically incorrect. But you have moved beyond "blunt" or "calling a spade a spade." You have moved into insults and questioning the motives and desires of fellow 2A supporters. You need all the help you can get to get this initiative moving. I would further suggest that pissing off folks who are otherwise sympathetic to your cause and efforts is not in your best interests.
Aloha,
-
Wow!
By reading HICARRY post I guess we should not piss him off becasue he will discredit you in a nice way and he is one of the big kahunas in the shooting community. :worship:
So on a serious note, thank you for fighting for our Hawaii Gun rights since some of us military folks are not permantly stationed here, unless one chooses to retire here. Even though civilians cannot shoot .50 cals on the island (I think Kokohead will not allow the 50, unless you are shooting on private land) except for us, I still thank you for your efforts to ensure ammunition is not marked as well. So much for DODACs! :wtf:
-
Wow!
By reading HICARRY post I guess we should not piss him off becasue he will discredit you in a nice way and he is one of the big kahunas in the shooting community. :worship:
So on a serious note, thank you for fighting for our Hawaii Gun rights since some of us military folks are not permantly stationed here, unless one chooses to retire here. Even though civilians cannot shoot .50 cals on the island (I think Kokohead will not allow the 50, unless you are shooting on private land) except for us, I still thank you for your efforts to ensure ammunition is not marked as well. So much for DODACs! :wtf:
I call BS - Show me where I "discredited" anyone in my last post? I completely understand and appreciate the sentiment about trying (often with less success than you'd want) to get gun folks to participate in the efforts to protect and reclaim their fundamental rights. I have been fighting the same fight, with slightly different focus (i.e. legislative efforts) for a long time now and have run across this type of problem repeatedly. I can only offer my suggestions based on my previous experiences. As I like to tell students, we all learn from our mistakes. But the really smart people also learn from other people's mistakes.
As far as pissing me off, go ahead. I'll just tell you off and I won't be nice about it. I was trying to impart a bit of wisdom from someone who has "been there, done that" to someone who's efforts and enthiusiam I respect and appreciate. If I didn't care about this initiative I would have either remained silent and let him (IMHO) continue ot alienate other supporters, to the detriment of his stated purpose, or I would have just called him some derogatory name and moved on.
I don't know what your major malfunction is, but you are the same guy who made the sarcastic comments regarding me taking exception to the lies and misrepresentation made by B.Pilar about his efforts in the gun rights arena. I never maligned his shooting abilities, his service to his country, or anything other than his misrepresentations. Yet you felt it necessary to snipe at me. I get it, you like Pilar and don't particularly like me, probably out of a sense of duty to a fellow service members. But, guess what, I really don't care. Your sarcasm and veiled disrespect is evident. I know what I have done for this effort, and what I will continue to do, whether you remain here or not. Your opinion of me, good or bad, matters not to me....so take your "kahuna" sarcasm and take a hike.....
-
We should probably stop this while we're still ahead.
-
Alex - you forgot me. I haven't applied yet either.
I didn't forget you; you stated that you planned to turn in your application when you return next week to pickup another firearm permit.
Let me fill you in on a few things. HRA is an ALL volunteer organization. Most of the active members have been at this for many years. And while we all appreciate Chris' efforts, I can tell you that I routinely put in 20+ hours a week on volunteer activity directly related to gun rights issues, and have been for several years now. Others put in similar time and effort. If not for HRA, you would not have the ability to have a handgun in the state of Hawaii right now. Yeah, that's right, we'd be in a similar situation as DC and Chicago in terms of handgun bans. In addition, you'd have to re-register your guns yearly, there would be a .50 cal ban, ammunition marking, firing pin marking, etc. Where were you when we were fighting for your rights for these very important issues?
In an interogation, this is what detectives call "deflection." But I'll play along: I was in the sandbox. Where will I be when the fruits of all of this labor are realized? Probably BACK in the sandbox and no longer a resident of Hawaii. Yet I am still here, fighting for our Constitution and the rights of those of you who will remain in Hawaii long after I'm gone.
ETA: What are you doing during those 20+ hours? This IS NOT an insult or cheap shot, but a genuine question to see if there is anything that I (or anyone else who might be interested in assisting the HRA) can do to help. It might also help HCCW identify areas that we have not thought about yet.
No one is questioning your willingness to change things, but I would strongly suggest you temper your remarks, especially about individuals who may not have "performed" as you would have hoped. I personally lamented the lack of support for submitting testimony for gun related issues over the years. In reality, submitting testimony is much, much easier than completing the CCW application and going to HPD to submit it.
I would argue that, if this is such a huge concern of yours, and you still haven't found a solution to get people motivated, maybe it's time that you consider changing your tactics. As Chris stated earlier, the new generation is much more direct and generally appreciates honesty and openness. Furthermore, younger people sometimes need to be pushed more before they act...this is not only true when they don't want to do something, but even with things that they DO want to do.
So, where is your outrage over those that couldn't find the time to submit testimony?
As I've said countless times, I'm VERY new to this and am constantly looking for ways to help the 2a cause. When I first joined this site, I was literally as clueless as one can be when it comes to being an "activist." During the last legislative session, I didn't have a damn clue about what it meant to submit testimony. Maybe the reason that you guys have such a difficult time finding help and assistance is that you keep everything so close to the chest. If you aren't willing to pass on information to people, how can you expect those people to help? In regards to getting people to submit testimony, what exactly did the HRA do to reach people other than go to closed BOD meetings and have a little spot in the Rifleman? I can tell you that the vast majority of people out there think that when you say "testimony" it means that they have something "official" to say about it. Very few people realize that you simply want gun owners to speak their mind so that the politicians realize that it's not just one or two wackos out in the woods. Furthermore, the vast majority of people are not aware that submitting testimony only takes a few clicks of the mouse. Speaking of which, since the HRA has already completed it's plans for the upcoming legislative session, how about you guys let us know NOW what bills/issues we should begin formulating our testimonies for, instead of waiting until it does become a hot issue and people conveniently "can't find the time."
If you had any idea how many people that I have personally spoken with who have felt completely rejected by the push back that they have received from the HRA on things, then perhaps you would understand my ire. On more than one occasion I have felt that way, however, my stubbornness has been what kept me around. Several times in the past few months, before Chris came through with this CCW initiative, I asked myself why I continue to fight against other able-bodied Americans to help them get rights that I will never see. Whether you guys realize it or not, you put a damper alot of people's spirits and willingness to help. That is a FACT.
My point is that folks will do what they can and that you need to be more accepting of those that may have problems following in your footsteps. Tom, over the years has devoted more time, energy, and money toward supporting our Second Amendment rights than Chris or you. Are you more "active" at this point in time? Maybe, but pissing off some of your staunchest supporters is counterproductive to your overall efforts.
And as I said earlier, everything is coming to a head RIGHT NOW. All the time, effort, and money that you all have given throughout the years has come to a head at this point in time. Perhaps you don't see it that way; if I'm wrong, I would genuinely like know what I'm missing. As I also said earlier, we are flying by the seats of our pants and doing the best we can. We have repeatedly asked for ANY assistance that anyone can give. In return we either receive silence or are told to slow down. We can't even get one person from the HRA BOD to come to the HCCW meetings and provide guidance, information, or simply support. This whole argument is stupid really...as yourself and others have said in the past, we shouldn't be lobbying against each other.
I am all for being "to the point" and have frequently been told I am too blunt and politically incorrect. But you have moved beyond "blunt" or "calling a spade a spade." You have moved into insults and questioning the motives and desires of fellow 2A supporters. You need all the help you can get to get this initiative moving. I would further suggest that pissing off folks who are otherwise sympathetic to your cause and efforts is not in your best interests.
Where, EXACTLY, did I insult anyone? Stating facts that others don't want to hear might make me an asshole, but is not an insult.
Also ETA: You're right we DO need all the help we can get to get this moving...that has been my point from the beginning. Perhaps you should reread your last sentence and ask yourself if you're alienating US, this goes back to what I was saying earlier about people feeling rejected after looking to help out the HRA. While I'm sure it's not deliberate, you guys have a knack for making people say "Fuck it."
- Alex
-
Alright.. enough.
Not everything is out in the open, even to people who are close and helping. That's just how it is sometimes. HRA *IS* working with me, more then many may know.. Just like in politics there is a lot of stuff that 1.) People don't care about except the party in concern 2.) it's done on the phone, in person, or in some back room.
Stop the bashing here, that's not the purpose. I don't want that for our cause; and I don't want that for the board in general. The end message for this thread: Apply for your concealed carry permits please, and soon.
Please continue to support the HRA and the Hawaii Concealed Carry initiative. The support we are looking currently looking for is: warm bodies, conversations with your friends, family and co-workers, advertising (Flyers, facebook, your blogs, web pages, or businesses), guidance, office supplies, special skills (SEO, Photos, Videos, Web etc), and obviously, donations.
These next few years are going to be important. This may not be the only chance, but it's going to be the driving chance for the next year. That's simply a promise.
To Long Didn't Read: Stop bashing each other, please turn that energy into something positive. Support this states Second Amendment in some form. Thread locked.