2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: jonjon on May 07, 2013, 10:04:51 AM
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Hello Everyone - Just finished my Magpul Dynamics Precision Rifle 1 class and had an awesome time. While I was there I talked to the Director of Precision Rifle Operations and inquired what it would take to get them to come to Hawaii to do some classes. They would need a host range and have 12 students signed up for the class. I know trying to find a range that would be able to host a 4 day 8 hour class would be close to impossible :( but just trying to see if there is interest and if there is any ideas that someone might have.
They would be more than willing to come during the winter months when the weather is still great here and they would be willing to conduct all or any of the classes they offer as long as they have guaranteed enrollment for each class.
http://www.magpuldynamics.com/training.html (http://www.magpuldynamics.com/training.html)
Let me know who would be interested and what classes you would be interested in and I can try to start the ball rolling on this and see if we can have some classes set for Dec. or next Jan. if possible. :shaka:
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I would be very interested in their classes, whether it would be their precision rifle or Level II or higher handgun or carbine. However, like you said, a range to host the class would be the toughest part. I've spend a bunch of time trying to get a couple of different training groups to conduct classes here and the range facility has always been the hang up.
From my past discussions, a handgun course would need something like a 50-100 yard range and a rifle course would need something like a 100 - 200 yard range, but I've seen them run on 50 yard max ranges. Those might be doable given the right property. I have a contact on Kauai that is in the process of building their own private range, but then the costs to fly and stay on Kauai approaches the cost to attend these classes on the mainland. I'll be going back to the mainland next week for a handgun and carbine class and the expenses add up real quick!
Keep us posted on your efforts. If it becomes a matter of attendance, I am sure I could get at least 3-4 more people (maybe more) that would be seriously interested.
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I'll be going back to the mainland next week for a handgun and carbine class and the expenses add up real quick!
Keep us posted on your efforts. If it becomes a matter of attendance, I am sure I could get at least 3-4 more people (maybe more) that would be seriously interested.
Hey drck1000 I know what you mean about the cost to attend on the mainland :(
$500 for airfare
$450 for rental car
$600 for hotel
$350 for food and misc. expense
$600 for ammo
$750 for the class
$100 for range fee
learning to hit an 18" target at 1030 yards with constant 15mph full value cross winds and 25mph gust on the first shot.............. priceless :D
but if I could have done it for just the class fee and ammo sooooooooo much better.
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Hey drck1000 I know what you mean about the cost to attend on the mainland :(
$500 for airfare
$450 for rental car
$600 for hotel
$350 for food and misc. expense
$600 for ammo
$750 for the class
$100 for range fee
learning to hit an 18" target at 1030 yards with constant 15mph full value cross winds and 25mph gust on the first shot.............. priceless :D
but if I could have done it for just the class fee and ammo sooooooooo much better.
Let's see. I think I'm going to regret doing this, but here goes.
Airfare $1000 + $250 copay for mileage for upgrade to first (United wasn't upfront about the copay to use my dad's miles)
Hotel $750
Rental Car $300
Ammo $400 or so (using leftover ammo from last class and left with a local resident)
Class Fee $1000 (2 day handgun and 2 day carbine)
Misc food and other approx $400 or so]
I had almost all of the gear for the class already. Spent about $400 or so due to lessons learned from the last class, like bringing quality kneepads.
It truely is a priceless experience though, something that unfortunately is not readily available to those living in Hawaii. Just the range facilities that are available there is amazing.
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I'd be interested in the dynamic carbine 2 class. Do you have ideas of potential ranges?
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I'd be interested in the dynamic carbine 2 class. Do you have ideas of potential ranges?
I don't have any ideas that's why I was hoping someone know's about a private range that would be able to host , even if it meant going outer island. Outer island would still incur travel cost but would still be less than going to the mainland and it would benefit the students living on that island.
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I'd be down for Big Island or Kauai
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I'd be down for Big Island or Kauai
I know there was some talk of building a world class shooting range on the Kona coast anyone hear any news on that lately?
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We discussed it at Puuloa a few times - but as you mentioned there was a lack of interest.
Another venue would be Schofield as there are a few action/combat shooters.
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We discussed it at Puuloa a few times - but as you mentioned there was a lack of interest.
Another venue would be Schofield as there are a few action/combat shooters.
I guess with the military ranges the problem would be the ability to guarantee the use of the range for 3-4 consecutive days.
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We discussed it at Puuloa a few times - but as you mentioned there was a lack of interest.
Another venue would be Schofield as there are a few action/combat shooters.
I thought topic about profit-earning centers DQ'd a bunch of people from Puuloa? I don't know specifically, but if that's the case, then this might be the same with SRGC as technically they are a non-profit generating club under MWR.
With regards to range space I thought there were some guys here with hookups to some land on the west side? Last time they were here I thought they ran in Waikiki? Range is very small compared to the space some here are talking about.
Lastly, yeah I'd be interested and could probably get another 3 to 4 people for sure. The catch is not during SHOT.
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I know there was some talk of building a world class shooting range on the Kona coast anyone hear any news on that lately?
I believe the bill/budget has gone through. It's moving, but there's a lot that needs to go on before the range can go into the bidding/construction phase.
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The range in Glenwood (Big Island) could be available. PM sent to jonjon.
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I would be very stoked if this were to happen.
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I would be very interested in either a carbine class or a handgun class.
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I'd definitely be interested, I'd even fly to a different island if need be. :shake:
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Cheaper if done on another island. A bunch of people got together, share hotel and rental. If this happens before I PCS, I could book rooms (on big island) at the military place and save even more money!
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I thought topic about profit-earning centers DQ'd a bunch of people from Puuloa? I don't know specifically, but if that's the case, then this might be the same with SRGC as technically they are a non-profit generating club under MWR.
thats why it was discussed and not executed
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I'll throw this out there...
The Ukumehame firing range on Maui has a range exclusively used by MPD, a 100-yard pistol range used for IPSC and Cowboy Action matches, and a 200-yard range for the general public/non-competitors. That leaves out a precision class, but carbine and/or pistol might be do-able. I believe the range sits empty most of the time since the 200-yard range is usually only open to the public on the 1st Sunday, 2nd Saturday, and 3rd Thursday of the month. Matches at the pistol range are only held on the weekends and MPD has their own range to use. The entire complex is owned by the County of Maui but they farm out the operation of the range to a club called "Valley Isle Sport Shooters". The RO's are all cool if you know what you're doing and follow the rules. I think all of them shoot competitively also. As long as you're safe, 30 round mags, rapid fire, even slide fire stocks are all allowed. So I don't think the idea of having a carbine or pistol class would freak them out.
Having said that, I haven't been there in a long time and don't have any connections with the club so I have no idea if they'd actually allow it.
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I'd attend the class, even if on another island. Can share rooms.
However don't plan it on the first weekend of the month, usually national guard drill weekend.
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a two day class could be an option, but not four - at kokohead that is.
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a two day class could be an option, but not four - at kokohead that is.
How is kokohead with allowing a for-profit company running a class there?
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How is kokohead with allowing a for-profit company running a class there?
non-profits run courses all the time; theres nothing wrong with people under the rules getting just compensation at least where non-profits are concerned. The only difference between a non-profit and a for profit training institution is after you pay the instructors, the money has to stay in the company and can't get distributed out to whoever. For example, magpul instructor could be an adjunct instructor and get "fair compensation" for teaching, which would be legitimately whatever the going rate for instructors of that quality are. Expenses and stuff come from the non-profit side, because it's their event, and that would also be factored into the cost of the event.
People confuse non-profits for not being able to make a profit, which is not true. It's just their funds have to go to the betterment and furtherance of their non-profit purposes. For us, that purpose is defense of civil rights and firearms education.
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Funtimes is a genius!
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non-profits run courses all the time; theres nothing wrong with people under the rules getting just compensation at least where non-profits are concerned. The only difference between a non-profit and a for profit training institution is after you pay the instructors, the money has to stay in the company and can't get distributed out to whoever. For example, magpul instructor could be an adjunct instructor and get "fair compensation" for teaching, which would be legitimately whatever the going rate for instructors of that quality are. Expenses and stuff come from the non-profit side, because it's their event, and that would also be factored into the cost of the event.
People confuse non-profits for not being able to make a profit, which is not true. It's just their funds have to go to the betterment and furtherance of their non-profit purposes. For us, that purpose is defense of civil rights and firearms education.
Right. I.E. Bishop Estate
I couldn't afford the fees instructors like Magpul charges.
Is it "fair comp" for the instructors in that market? Perhaps.
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People confuse non-profits for not being able to make a profit, which is not true. It's just their funds have to go to the betterment and furtherance of their non-profit purposes. For us, that purpose is defense of civil rights and firearms education.
So if "Magpul" ran a class and charged for enrollment would that be a go or no-go at kokohead?
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So if "Magpul" ran a class and charged for enrollment would that be a go or no-go at kokohead?
There are several businesses that do that now. The Japanese tourists on the rifle side and the various classes taught on the pistol side for people who want to obtain a pistol permit to acquire.
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There are several businesses that do that now. The Japanese tourists on the rifle side and the various classes taught on the pistol side for people who want to obtain a pistol permit to acquire.
But does the C&C actually know these for profit classes are being held? I would guess not.
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We could do 4 days in Glenwood...if there were enough people willing to fork out the cash.
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^^^So long as there is enough notice and I can get time off, I'd be in.
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^^^So long as there is enough notice and I can get time off, I'd be in.
Maybe you can finally answer the "piston versus DI" challenge, too! :rofl:
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Keep us updated..I'm down.
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I think whoever is seriously interested should post what class they would be interested in
If it's on BI I would be down for a carbine 2 class
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We could do 4 days in Glenwood...if there were enough people willing to fork out the cash.
OK guys - this is where "money talks" if we can make a list of guaranteed students with credit cards ready to pay the course fees up front, it will make Magpuls decision to come to Hawaii a whole lot easier. When I last talked to the Director of Precision Rifle he stated that he needed 12 students per class and they will try to run 3 to 4 different classes while they are here
2 day classes - $450
3 day classes - $600
4 day classes - $750
If we can start a list to know what classes everyone is interested in and who would be willing to pay the price we can get a better idea if there is enough interest to make it worthwhile for Magpul to provide their services here. After talking with the instructors all of them would come to Hawaii in a heartbeat but it is up to the higher ups and accountans to decide if it financially viable to make the trip.
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I'd be willing to put the cash. I'd freaking sleep in a tent on the big island if I had to do gun training here lol.
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I'd be willing to put the cash. I'd freaking sleep in a tent on the big island if I had to do gun training here lol.
Hey - Crazy Cat has offered to let people camp at the range if the course is held a Glenwood(Big Island) We could also offer Emergency Prep. classes or night shooting classes too - Boy(Man) Scouts Camp :shaka:
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I'm also willing, handgun or carbine. Obviously I'd need to know when so I can figure out if it would be good with my work schedule, but I'd be willing to pay upfront if need be to get them down here.
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I'm down. Could probably only afford a 2 day class though right now. Down for doing it camping tent style too if need be.
How can I find what type of classes they have? Go to their website?
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Seriously interested, in more than one class. Would need concrete dates before I can commit because my schedule is terrible. Once location and dates are set, I can let you know.
:shaka:
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I'm in for whatever class they offer. As long as it's not on my drill weekend.
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Would we be able to bring the necessary amount of ammo on a plane to the BI/MAUI or??
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Would we be able to bring the necessary amount of ammo on a plane to the BI/MAUI or??
Only 11lbs. You would definitely need to find a way to get ammo there. Not sure how much it costs to ship hazmat inter-island?
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Would we be able to bring the necessary amount of ammo on a plane to the BI/MAUI or??
We can try to work with one of the local gun shops on the outer islands to bulk order some ammo for us ahead of time.
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Totally in for a carbine course. Lol what am I saying, carbine, handgun, shotgun it doesn't matter, I'm in.
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We could take the ferry...oh wait
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Only 11lbs. You would definitely need to find a way to get ammo there. Not sure how much it costs to ship hazmat inter-island?
YB doesn't note hazmat fee:
http://www.htbyb.com/yb/shipgoods.php?sub=Hazardous+Materials (http://www.htbyb.com/yb/shipgoods.php?sub=Hazardous+Materials)
Ammunition does fall under hazmat though. If we palletize and send everything at one time it would minimize the charges. Typically YB will charge by cube and weight. So the smaller footprint the better. Something as small as a pallet though I don't know if they'll take weight into account.
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Totally in for a carbine course. Lol what am I saying, carbine, handgun, shotgun it doesn't matter, I'm in.
Me too.
One question though is basic level of proficiency. I'm assuming most of us here are at least of medium level and not beginners?
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I'd be down for a Level II handgun or carbine. If it's going to be on the outer island, a two 2-day courses or a longer combined course would appeal most to me.
If there are ranges available and Magpul Dynamics falls through as instructors, let me know and I can contact a few that I looked into coming to Hawaii this year, but couldn't find a range to host. One of those is Redback One. I'll actually be going up to the mainland for a 2 day handgun followed by a 2 day carbine with them next week. I went through their basic carbine last year and it was awesome. That said, it would be great to have instruction from a range of instructors.
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I'd love to attend. Would have to work up the funds though.
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We could take the ferry...oh wait
Lol. The ferry like most things that aren't here today, made perfect sense.
What a travesty.
Lets get some concrete dates set! :thumbsup:
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Count me in for any class.
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I'm interested in pistol, carbine, shotgun - in that order - any level.
Precision rifle, not so much.
I believe the last training company to come out here was Tactical Response, somewhere outer island?
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A pistol course would be awesome, I could probably swing 2 or 3 days.
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In and hope to go to something!
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just got here and waiting on my stuff from Cal. I would be down for a class. I'm a beginner though.
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OK - a little update.
Just got a reply back from Caylen Wojcik the director of Precision Rifle for Magpul Dynamics. He will be meeting with Jon Canipe the director of Carbine operations next week and they will be contacting me to go over the details of holding Magpul classes in Hawaii, I will keep you posted.
Also from the responses so far, looks like a majority of the 2a members would be interested in carbine and handgun courses so I will be more focused on getting details for these classes. As far as possible range host, I have only received one possible location so far on the east side of the Big Island. If anyone knows of any other possible locations please feel free to let us know.
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interested in mostly handgun
would do 2-3 days
next would be shotgun
then further down would be close range rifle
not really interested at all in long range
i suspect i am in the minority
OK - a little update.
Just got a reply back from Caylen Wojcik the director of Precision Rifle for Magpul Dynamics. He will be meeting with Jon Canipe the director of Carbine operations next week and they will be contacting me to go over the details of holding Magpul classes in Hawaii, I will keep you posted.
Also from the responses so far, looks like a majority of the 2a members would be interested in carbine and handgun courses so I will be more focused on getting details for these classes. As far as possible range host, I have only received one possible location so far on the east side of the Big Island. If anyone knows of any other possible locations please feel free to let us know.
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OK - a little update.
Just got a reply back from Caylen Wojcik the director of Precision Rifle for Magpul Dynamics. He will be meeting with Jon Canipe the director of Carbine operations next week and they will be contacting me to go over the details of holding Magpul classes in Hawaii, I will keep you posted.
Also from the responses so far, looks like a majority of the 2a members would be interested in carbine and handgun courses so I will be more focused on getting details for these classes. As far as possible range host, I have only received one possible location so far on the east side of the Big Island. If anyone knows of any other possible locations please feel free to let us know.
Nice, thanks for getting this going! Not sure if I could do anything to help, but thanks for keeping up posted!
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As far as classes go, while I would probably attend anything to see how the instructors do and pick up something, I would really be hoping for advanced level classes!
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interested in mostly handgun
would do 2-3 days
next would be shotgun
then further down would be close range rifle
not really interested at all in long range
i suspect i am in the minority
Nope, I'd look at things the same way. While I do like long range stuff, it's the least of my concerns.
I'd rather have an intermediate level handgun on up. Anything rifle/shotgun.
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It's great to see all the people here committing to attending. However keep in mind the costs involved ibefore you commit: Lets say you split the cost 3 ways for rental car and hotel room in Hilo for a Dynamic Carbine 3 day course:
Cost of Course ~$600 (maybe more)
Airfare $200
Rental Car $70
Hotel $85
Food and stuff $100
Ammunition $875 (5.56) + $75 (9mm) = $950
So expect to pay about $2,000.
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It's great to see all the people here committing to attending. However keep in mind the costs involved ibefore you commit: Lets say you split the cost 3 ways for rental car and hotel room in Hilo for a Dynamic Carbine 3 day course:
Cost of Course ~$600 (maybe more)
Airfare $200
Rental Car $70
Hotel $85
Food and stuff $100
Ammunition $875 (5.56) + $75 (9mm) = $950
So expect to pay about $2,000.
That's also assuming you already have the proper gear for the course. Things like good holsters, mag pouches (not the kind that is typically available off the shelf at LGSs), slings, etc are pricey and they add up quickly.
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Hey drck1000 I know what you mean about the cost to attend on the mainland :(
$500 for airfare
$450 for rental car
$600 for hotel
$350 for food and misc. expense
$600 for ammo
$750 for the class
$100 for range fee
learning to hit an 18" target at 1030 yards with constant 15mph full value cross winds and 25mph gust on the first shot.............. priceless :D
but if I could have done it for just the class fee and ammo sooooooooo much better.
Zippz - this is what I paid to attend in Washington - Hilo would be cheaper, but if someone could hook up a range in Oahu it would be even cheaper for the majority of 2a members.
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Created a Poll to see the 2a members interest in which Magpul Dynamics course they would like to attend in Hawaii, you can make more than one choice.
http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=5191472ce4b07663c9e8002a (http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=5191472ce4b07663c9e8002a)
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Thanks, JonJon. Four people already voted!
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For the advanced classes, Ie dynamic handgun 2, do you have to take the level 1 class first? I shot handgun and carbine at other private schools and in the military.
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Also if you can't afford the classes, the DVD sets they put out can help you alot too, for about $50 a set. Videos go through the basic and advanced techniques and are interesting to watch. I know security equipment has the videos.
http://store.magpul.com/category/169 (http://store.magpul.com/category/169)
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For the advanced classes, Ie dynamic handgun 2, do you have to take the level 1 class first? I shot handgun and carbine at other private schools and in the military.
Just checked on the Magpul Dynamics website there is no prerequisite for carbine 2, I could be mistaken but I think carbine 2 deals less with weapon familiarization and fundamentals and more with dynamic application, same for the handgun 2 course. Advance classes have less classroom time.
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Thanks, JonJon. Four people already voted!
I just voted.
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Ammunition $875 (5.56) + $75 (9mm) = $950
Ammunition might make it or break it for a lot of people. About half the cost if you can even find it. Not to mention sending it off-island. Whoever is the "host/coordinator" (jonjon?) should ask Magpul about using .22 for the carbine classes. It might allow a few more people to attend. Earlier in the year Magpul Dynamics posted this:
"Magpul Dynamics Pricing/Equipment Changed for 2013
Magpul Dynamics Pricing and Ammunition Requirement Update
In an effort to make training more accessible in these times of increased prices and reduced availability, Magpul Dynamics has updated their pricing structure, round counts, and acceptable calibers for the 2013 training year.
Effective immediately, all three-day classes are reduced to $600 per student, and two-day classes are reduced to $450 per student. In addition, the curriculum has been revised for all pistol/carbine courses based on the changes occurring over the past year to allow for maximum training value at a slightly reduced round count. Also, we are temporarily allowing the use of pistol-caliber carbines and 22LR AR-15 pattern training rifles in the carbine classes. Please understand that there are many drawbacks to training with 22LR as opposed to normal rifle platforms, but significant training value will still exist. We expect a full return to allowing rifle-caliber rounds only in the future as the ammunition supply catches up with current demand and ammunition prices return to a reasonable level. However, we understand the financial burden placed on students with the current state of the economy and the rapid rise in retail pricing in the ammunition industry. We firmly believe in the value of quality firearms training and are committed to providing quality products and services at a fair price.
Duane, Steve, Jon, and Caylen"
I know this assumes you have a .22 upper or AR patterned .22, and .22 ammo itself is hard to find right now, but people willing to spend over a grand on training are probably the type that had enough foresight to stock up on ammo long before this current craze. I train a lot with .22 on an AR and although there is a difference, I'd much rather train with .22 than with nothing at all. In fact, given that bulk .22 tends to have a lot more malfunctions when compared to centerfire rounds, you end up with a lot of weapons malipulation/malfunction practice. Which is a big part of these classes anway. Good luck to you guys, it's awesome to see the possibility of this type of training in Hawaii.
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Ammunition might make it or break it for a lot of people. About half the cost if you can even find it. Not to mention sending it off-island. Whoever is the "host/coordinator" (jonjon?) should ask Magpul about using .22 for the carbine classes. It might allow a few more people to attend. Earlier in the year Magpul Dynamics posted this:
What might be a possibility once there is an actual date and class set, is to do a bulk ammo purchase in advance through one of the LGS on the island of the class. Also Magpul has been offering ammo for sale to students attending their classes. I will talk with the Magpul cadre to see if we would be able to buy through them and have the ammo shipped to the class site.
From Magpul Dynamics:
Apologies for the delay, but we are now ready to get this program rolling. We've had some hiccups on the pistol ammo side, but by working with various manufacturers and vendors, we are ready to go. Prices are not as low as we'd like them to be, but if our costs go down, we will announce price adjustments to pass the savings on.
For Carbine classes, we will have Magtech 5.56 which may be M193 or 62gr (no penetrator) ball, depending on availability. Price will be $380 per 1000 rounds. You may purchase up to 1200 rounds for the class, but not more, and each additional 100 rounds will be $38.00. You can probably get by with 1000.
Handgun ammo for Carbine students will be available in 100 round increments up to 200 rounds max. Right now, all we have is 9mm, at $27.50 per 100 rounds. 100 rounds will probably get you by for the class. 200 preferred for Carbine 2.
For Handgun students, we will have Magtech or Fiocchi 115gr ball ammo. Price for either will be $275 per 1000 rounds. You may purhase in 100 round increments up to 1200 rounds per class, with each additional 100 rounds costing $27.50. 1000 will probably get you through, but the extra 200 rounds won't hurt, either.
Once again, if you order ammo, and then cancel your class slot, you will be refunded the amount of the ammo, and will not be afforded the option to take the ammo. If the ammo has been shipped to the class location (approx 10 days before class date), the cost of shipping the ammo (both ways) will be withheld from any refund.
Now...get on the web or on the phone and reserve those class seats, with ammo package!
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You are short changing yourself doing a carbine class with a .22lr.... just imo. If I'm paying to take a class, I'm going to take "take a class" and I wouldn't take it if I couldn't afford legit ammo for the class.
Depending on the class, and what we are doing, many people may not need (or really want) the added problems / malfunctions that .22lr will cause. Most of them, that I have seen, don't perform well to begin with... add in dirt, grime, and high round counts and I think you are in for some fun and headaches lol.
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If I'm going to spend the time and money on a class, I would do it right and get the proper ammo
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I voted.
In the handgun and carbine classes that I'm taking this weekend, they adjusted the round counts due to the recent issues with ammo. They have indicated that they have adjusted their course content to allow for less firing sequences, but there will opportunity for those with more than the minimum ammo to shoot. They also indicated that 22 lr uppers are an option so I guess I'll see if anyone brings one to the class. Personally, I agree with Funtimes that I'd rather hold off than take a class with 22 lr since you wouldn't be getting the full experience with recoil management.
Interesting note on the ammo prices if purchased through Magpul. That definitely increases my interest as ammo was one of the biggest headaches in making arrangements for my class this weekend.
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^^^I wonder if Magpul really understands the costs of shipping the ammo to Hawaii? This is more like shipping ammo to Alaska.
Anywho...........fawk the costs, I'm in.
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Voted, depending on when it is, etc. I might be able to have a few people stay at my place if its on the big island.
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If I'm going to spend the time and money on a class, I would do it right and get the proper ammo
Reloaded ammunition caused me a *huge* problem during Chris Costa's Carbine 2 course. Was really frustrated, pissed off, and it affected my training :(. This was from a mainland reloading company too. I went through almost 2500 rounds during that three day course, it was the last box that was jacked up.
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You are short changing yourself doing a carbine class with a .22lr.... just imo. If I'm paying to take a class, I'm going to take "take a class" and I wouldn't take it if I couldn't afford legit ammo for the class.
Depending on the class, and what we are doing, many people may not need (or really want) the added problems / malfunctions that .22lr will cause. Most of them, that I have seen, don't perform well to begin with... add in dirt, grime, and high round counts and I think you are in for some fun and headaches lol.
I agree to an extent. Ideally, yes you should use centerfire ammo. But I will always advocate that some training is better than no training. And if Magpul themselves are allowing .22, then I'm sure they've thought long and hard about it. Plus you can only use .22 on some portions of the class, not the whole thing.
I see your point with the malfunctions though. To a degree it's great because it forces you to continually practice dealing with weapon malfunctions, but in a class environment I can see it being a pain. No one wants to be the guy that everyone has to wait for.
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Created a Poll to see the 2a members interest in which Magpul Dynamics course they would like to attend in Hawaii, you can make more than one choice.
http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=5191472ce4b07663c9e8002a (http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=5191472ce4b07663c9e8002a)
So far 24 members voted on the poll, good job but definitely need to have more members to vote so that when I talk to Magpul it would be nice to show the numbers and interest in having Magpul Dynamics come to Hawaii. :shaka:
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I would love to attend but a cost of $2k is a bit steep. So I didn't answer the poll so as not to skew the number of interest.
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I would love to attend but a cost of $2k is a bit steep. So I didn't answer the poll so as not to skew the number of interest.
A lot of that was based on the ammo, and sadly, I think that 2k estimate is a bit under. When I did Carbine 2 with Chris Costa of Costa Ludus, I fired almost 2500 rounds of .223 in the 3 day course. I went through about 700 rounds of 9mm a day for the handgun portion.
As a side note, where the hell are all you people wanting training at for the *FREE* HDF range days?
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While maybe not magpul, we may be teaching more classes.
As a side note, where the hell are all you people wanting training at for the *FREE* HDF range days?
On the Big Island :(
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On the Big Island :(
have no fear 8-) we are working on some options for you too. (That won't be in the range of 2k, more like 450).
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have no fear 8-) we are working on some options for you too. (That won't be in the range of 2k, more like 450).
Right on ,keep me updated. :thumbsup:
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I would love to attend but a cost of $2k is a bit steep. So I didn't answer the poll so as not to skew the number of interest.
From the Magpul Dynamics website:
Carbine 1 & 2
$450 - 2 day course | students provide their own ammo: 800rds, 200rds pistol
$600 - 3 day course | students provide their own ammo: 1250rds, 250rds pistol
Handgun 1& 2
$450 - 2 day course | students provide their own ammo: 900rds
$600 - 3 day course | students provide their own ammo: 1400rds
Shotgun
$450 - 2 day course
Students provide their own ammo:
600 rounds bird
50 rounds buck
50 rounds slug
100 rounds pistol
Hawaiian AIr roundtrip to Hilo from Honolulu is about $160 average.
We can also save some money by carpooling and also save on hotel by camping on site, where there is a will there is a way ;)
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From the Magpul Dynamics website:
Carbine 1 & 2
$450 - 2 day course | students provide their own ammo: 800rds, 200rds pistol
$600 - 3 day course | students provide their own ammo: 1250rds, 250rds pistol
Handgun 1& 2
$450 - 2 day course | students provide their own ammo: 900rds
$600 - 3 day course | students provide their own ammo: 1400rds
Shotgun
$450 - 2 day course
Students provide their own ammo:
600 rounds bird
50 rounds buck
50 rounds slug
100 rounds pistol
Hawaiian AIr to Hilo from Honolulu is about $160 average.
We can also save some money by carpooling and also save on hotel by camping on site, where there is a will there is a way ;)
Only thing to add in there is that depending on your rifle, you have the oversize bag charge :(. When travelling, my pelican costs me $100 to ship lol.
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ok, given that info re: cost and round count
i would be in for handgun 2 or 3 day course ONLY
likely 3 more than 2, so i can maximize cost and time spent vs flight costs
i have relatives on hilo and kona side i can stay at, but i'd still like to maximize time and $$$
http://2ahawaii.com/Smileys/extended/shake.gif (http://2ahawaii.com/Smileys/extended/shake.gif)
From the Magpul Dynamics website:
Carbine 1 & 2
$450 - 2 day course | students provide their own ammo: 800rds, 200rds pistol
$600 - 3 day course | students provide their own ammo: 1250rds, 250rds pistol
Handgun 1& 2
$450 - 2 day course | students provide their own ammo: 900rds
$600 - 3 day course | students provide their own ammo: 1400rds
Shotgun
$450 - 2 day course
Students provide their own ammo:
600 rounds bird
50 rounds buck
50 rounds slug
100 rounds pistol
Hawaiian AIr to Hilo from Honolulu is about $160 average.
We can also save some money by carpooling and also save on hotel by camping on site, where there is a will there is a way ;)
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btw, how much ammo are we allowed to take interisland?
ok, given that info re: cost and round count
i would be in for handgun 2 or 3 day course ONLY
likely 3 more than 2, so i can maximize cost and time spent vs flight costs
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As a side note, where the hell are all you people wanting training at for the *FREE* HDF range days?
you need a cool DVD set. Call Panteao. :thumbsup:
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btw, how much ammo are we allowed to take interisland?
11 lbs.
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you need a cool DVD set. Call Panteao. :thumbsup:
hah =p nah we are nothing special; but I know we have been able to improve quite a few peoples shooting over the past year and some change.
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Only thing to add in there is that depending on your rifle, you have the oversize bag charge :(. When travelling, my pelican costs me $100 to ship lol.
That sucks for you - i've taken my Pelican 1720 numerous times on Hawaiian and Delta and have never been charged :D either lucky or being a gold/platinum flight member actually has useful benefits.
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That sucks for you - i've taken my Pelican 1720 numerous times on Hawaiian and Delta and have never been charged :D either lucky or being a gold/platinum flight member actually has useful benefits.
1720 will be no problem, 1750 is oversize :(. I store my rifle, two handguns with lights, all my magazines for all firearms (10 pistol, 8 rifle), flash lights, etc. in it.
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btw, how much ammo are we allowed to take interisland?
Easiest thing would be to just consolidate our stuff and put it on a pallet on YB. Split the costs.
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btw, how much ammo are we allowed to take interisland?
With Hawaiian Air, max is 11lbs. That being said all of the times I did fly, the ticket agent never did weigh my ammo, they always weigh my check in bag but never the ammo separately as long as the check in bag was below the max. limit they never gave me a problem. I always declare that I have ammo in my check in but most times they are more occupied with checking and filling out the forms for my firearms.
Easiest thing would be to just consolidate our stuff and put it on a pallet on YB. Split the costs.
Is there hazmat fees involved with inter island shipment of ammo? We could see if we can do a group buy on ammo from one of the LGS and hopefully get a bulk discount to help on cost also is it possible to have LGS have ammo dropped shipped to range location?
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yeah, that's what i was thinking too
anyone have connections for shipping?
Easiest thing would be to just consolidate our stuff and put it on a pallet on YB. Split the costs.
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A small gvan container was about $200 about 5 years ago. I'm sure if you pack it correct all will fit in the gvan
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.
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As a side note, where the hell are all you people wanting training at for the *FREE* HDF range days?
when's the next HDF range day with rifles?
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i didnt vote yet because im waiting to see the ammo situation. dont wanna commit yet and screw up the head count.
i have enough 9mm to take the 3 day pistol class, but then id be pretty low after that. plus taking ammo with me wont be easy. id love to buy a case of ammo on whatever island its on, as long as its reasonable. last case i bought was $199/1000 haha! i still trip how things change in 6 months.
anything less than double that will be acceptable as long as its on island or thats the shipped price. if it gets to be over .50 cents a round for 9mm at an outerisland LGS or after i factor in the shipping then count me out. id be too distracted thinking about how id rather be using a m&p22 with 3.5 cents a round winchester hahaha. yes, i know legit training is invaluable but if we cant work together to reduce the total cost of the classes,then it may just be bad timing. imho.
im also interested in the shotgun course but i cant imagine bringing 700 rounds of 12 gauge with me!! i have a whole mortar can full of just birdshot from kingkeoni and it easily weighs more than 25 pounds. probably 50. i think theres only around 700 rounds in there too!
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With Hawaiian Air, max is 11lbs. That being said all of the times I did fly, the ticket agent never did weigh my ammo, they always weigh my check in bag but never the ammo separately as long as the check in bag was below the max. limit they never gave me a problem. I always declare that I have ammo in my check in but most times they are more occupied with checking and filling out the forms for my firearms.
Is there hazmat fees involved with inter island shipment of ammo? We could see if we can do a group buy on ammo from one of the LGS and hopefully get a bulk discount to help on cost also is it possible to have LGS have ammo dropped shipped to range location?
United is the same, 11 lbs max. In two trips, they didn't weigh anything first trip, the agent didn't even have me open the rifle bag inside the Pelican shell. Last night, the guy asked to see my mags to show they were empty, but it was real quick.
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when's the next HDF range day with rifles?
Right now only the price of ammo is keeping us from doing it. I have considered doing a AK day, since 7.62 is available in cheap... but most people can't afford to come out and blow $300 dollars in ammo for a training day.
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Count me in for an AR or AK day. Unless magpul comes down then ill have to save ammo for that
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Seems like ammo prices and demand has peaked, so hopefully things will be a bit better at the end of summer.
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Seems like ammo prices and demand has peaked, so hopefully things will be a bit better at the end of summer.
Just saw a tweet for some steel 5.56 for 399 / 1k... that is almost some prices we can train on :P. I can't afford it right now since I just bought a Rem 700 LTR.
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I haven't gone shooting in so long because of prices =o(
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Magpul Dynamics Hawaii - Update
Ok - just got a reply back from the Director of Precision Rifle(Caylen Wojcik), he had a meeting the Director of Carbine(Jon Canipe) and they are down for a Hawaii Class. I am now waiting for them to decide on a date, I suggested to them somewhere between Nov - Jan. Also looks like the range in Glenwood Hilo is the only range willing to host the class unless anyone can come up with any other possible locations. As for which classes will be offered, the instructors want to run two classes back to back so according to the replies from the poll it would be Handgun 1 and carbine 1. They will need at least 15 students per class, so once the dates are set we will need to make sure the slots get filled quickly or they will cancel the classes. Will update with more details when Magpul gets back to me :shaka:
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Magpul Dynamics Hawaii - Update
Ok - just got a reply back from the Director of Precision Rifle(Caylen Wojcik), he had a meeting the Director of Carbine(Jon Canipe) and they are down for a Hawaii Class. I am now waiting for them to decide on a date, I suggested to them somewhere between Nov - Jan. Also looks like the range in Glenwood Hilo is the only range willing to host the class unless anyone can come up with any other possible locations. As for which classes will be offered, the instructors want to run two classes back to back so according to the replies from the poll it would be Handgun 1 and carbine 1. They will need at least 15 students per class, so once the dates are set we will need to make sure the slots get filled quickly or they will cancel the classes. Will update with more details when Magpul gets back to me :shaka:
That is awesome, thanks again.
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In I hope! Thanks for getting this going! I bet it will sell out and will have to add additional sessions :)
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Where is hnl.flyboy and did he get his pilot certification, yet?? ;D
I'm here! Haven't been keeping up...Looks like some 50-odd pages of unread threads..
I am a pilot and have been for almost 7 years, but I'm still flying under the limitations of a Private Pilot--I cannot fly for "compensation or hire." Therefore, flying 400 lbs (about all my craft can carry) to Kona would run me personally somewhere in the neighborhood of $650 (4.4 hours there and back at ~$140-$150 an hour, depending on the fuel surcharge), and an aviation lawyer could probably argue that I'm still outside the law (obtaining your favor could be construed as "compensation"). Even if I had my Commercial certificate, $650 for 400 pounds of ammo is probably not worth it.
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Awesome! Now we just. Gotta pin down the dates, :thumbsup:
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So theres a minimum of 15 students, which I'm sure wont be a problem filling. Is there a MAXIMUM?
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i think you'll be surprised when the $$$ come due
i think there's going to be a lot of back and forth when that happens
So theres a minimum of 15 students, which I'm sure wont be a problem filling. Is there a MAXIMUM?
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Alright, how much will it cost?
*EDIT*
Didn't think the magpul website would open at work but it did.
Looks like the Lvl1 starts at 2-day courses and they're $450 each. Handgun1 requires 900 rnds min. Carbine1 requires 800rnds + 200 pistol rnds.
3-day courses are $600 each and more ammo.
mwuehehehehe
>:D
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damn, no carbine 2?
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Watching the Carbine1 1-5 drill I'd be a level -3 on that scale ;) If these guys are coming out to train us I'm going - at least will be on our timezone and short flight time.
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Whew doggy, 800 rounds. I have about 500 rounds of .223 I've been sitting on, I guess this will be as good a time as any. Time to start buying more.
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I'm guessing in that timeframe, cost of bulk ammo should be down to about $0.45 a round for M193 and $0.25 for 9mm with availability. Please avoid the first weekend of the month, it's usually Army and Air Guard/Reserve drill weekend.
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Whew doggy, 800 rounds. I have about 500 rounds of .223 I've been sitting on, I guess this will be as good a time as any. Time to start buying more.
Thats nothing. The 3 day course is 1,250 rounds. And these are the reduced course requirements too.
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I'm guessing in that timeframe, cost of bulk ammo should be down to about $0.45 a round for M193 and $0.25 for 9mm with availability. Please avoid the first weekend of the month, it's usually Army and Air Guard/Reserve drill weekend.
Security Equipment had a whole pallet of xm193 yesterday for $550.00 a case of 1000 - prices of ammo slowing coming back down. Hopefully by the time the class comes around ammo prices will be back to pre panic levels.
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My last carbine course was 2500 + rounds for 3 days.
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I'll try and arrange a group buy price for the superferry and I'll let you guys kn-- aww fuck.
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If it's Handgun 1 and Carbine 1, I'm most likely out. I'd possibly consider going anyways if it was on a range on Oahu (not holding my breath), but that a ton of ammo for beginner/entry level class. Yes, I've learned a lot in the beginner/entry/level 1 classes that I've taken so far (many weren't really basic level, just the first step offered), but not enough to where I'd want to take another from a different instructor/company.
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If it's Handgun 1 and Carbine 1, I'm most likely out. I'd possibly consider going anyways if it was on a range on Oahu (not holding my breath), but that a ton of ammo for beginner/entry level class. Yes, I've learned a lot in the beginner/entry/level 1 classes that I've taken so far (many weren't really basic level, just the first step offered), but not enough to where I'd want to take another from a different instructor/company.
This
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found tips I that you might find useful:
http://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=2822 (http://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=2822)
Have your gear squared away. Don’t show up to the class with a new gun, new holster, new anything that you have not wrung out on your own in practice. Sure, the class is a great format to put your gear to the test, but if untested gear fails you, you lose training time. Keep in mind that you have spent a ton of money on tuition, travel, lodging, and ammunition, and wasted time equals wasted money.
If you are attending a carbine course, sight in your rifle with the ammunition you are using in class. The first hour or more of any carbine class is inevitably used for sight in, and it is better to be chasing 3-4 clicks of fine tuning than sweating to get on paper at 50m. The Street Fighter course required students to have attended the comprehensive 3 day Carbine 1.5, yet 2 of 24 students came with guns that didn’t print near the target at 50m and required the other 22 students to stand and wait while those two guns got unscrewed. Unacceptable.
Know your physical capabilities. You don’t need to be the star of your Crossfit gym to take a class, but many carbine classes teach position shooting which can become quite physical. If you can’t get in and out of positions, it can slow the progress of your learning and just make you miserable. With that in mind, consider bringing elbow and knee pads to help mitigate joint pain issues.Shooting around cars is pretty hazardous, and everyone in class ended up finding little sharp edges and broken glass bits by the end of the class. I planned ahead and brought long sleeve shirts, knee pads, and gloves. Bringing your own first aid kit is a good idea too. The host facility should (hopefully) have a trauma kit for serious injuries as well as a first aid kit for smaller boo boos, but it is nice to have your own stuff too. My personal kit was lacking a few items I wanted, and I will be adding to it before I head out to the next class.
On day one of our class it was 90 degrees and sunny, like it is most of the year in Florida. Proper hydration is obviously key for survival, but lots of folks were under hydrated during longer evolutions, and one fellow fell out shortly after lunch. A Camelbak hydration system is a great asset, and I was one of only two students wearing one at the class. Not having to run back for water let me get a few more runs in while others ran to their coolers. Lacking a Camelbak, consider just stuffing a bottle of water into a cargo pocket or dump pouch.
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found tips I found that you might find useful:
http://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=2822 (http://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=2822)
Lots of good information there. Check out this thread as well.
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=1648140#post1648140
Try to read AARs from those have gone through previous similar classes. Definitely have your gun sorted out prior to the class. You don't want to be spending time fighting your gear. You want to be able to soak it all in.
Last handgun class, I added a grip plug to my Glock 17 and it caused some mags not to drop free. I had not tested it out prior to the class, but that's a case of something simple that can cause a problem. Luckily it was easily solved. In the carbine class, some brought weak ammo that was having trouble cycling the gun. A change to a lighter buffer and they were back up and running.
While it may not be possible for everyone, try to have backup/spare guns and/or parts. Even quality gear can go down or break. My spare gun helped a guy whose T-1 failed. My safety lever also broke and the safety from my backup gun served as a spare part. I would've been dead in the water otherwise.
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found tips I found that you might find useful:
http://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=2822 (http://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=2822)
These tips are on point!
We just finished a class near our home town. It was an advanced pistol course with a skills test at the end of the three day session. TD1 was painful! The students were not prepared for class. (IE: weapons zero, bad attitude, lack of ammo, and overweight) This hampered the classes time to knock out some quality training, but it is what it is.
Remember guys, you get what you put in. With that being said, every body has to start some where so expect this to happen on the first day and drive on.
Check your attitude at the door. Keep an open mind and stay humble.
It has been four years since we left Oahu and I do not miss the shooting community there. It's a tough market when it comes to civilian weapons training. Practicing those skill sets on the island is tough if you are not an LEO.
I am grateful, for the opportunity to train in the mainland once again.
Good luck in you efforts!
Wish you the best!
Hope to see some of you at Yakima in December!
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My last carbine course was 2500 + rounds for 3 days.
Which Carbine course did you attend? That is a high round count for 3 days. Tom Givens Carbine Class required us to have only 1200 rounds when we stopped by in North Carolina.
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Which Carbine course did you attend? That is a high round count for 3 days. Tom Givens Carbine Class required us to have only 1200 rounds when we stopped by in North Carolina.
Costa CE02. I also did the HE02; I had a similar round count for that.
To be fair, I could have gotten away with more like 2k. Some people were sitting out some of the drills at the end of the course, and I was trying to run them more.
His 3 day requirements are:
Students provide their own ammo: 1800rds Minimum, and 300 rounds of Handgun ammo.
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Costa CE02. I also did the HE02; I had a similar round count for that.
To be fair, I could have gotten away with more like 2k. Some people were sitting out some of the drills at the end of the course, and I was trying to run them more.
His 3 day requirements are:
Students provide their own ammo: 1800rds Minimum, and 300 rounds of Handgun ammo.
Was that course before or after the recent ammo price and availability craze? I've had friends go through Costa Ludus and Magpul courses when Chris was still with them and they went through a bunch of ammo. None of them have taken the course in the last 6-8 months or so though.
The two courses I took last week were typically 1000 for the handgun and 1000 carbine and 200 handgun. Both were cut in half for this go around. If you brought more, you had plenty of opportunity to shoot that much, but I didn't feel shortchanged one bit keeping to the reduced round counts. I think I shot around 600 for the 2-day handgun course and around 500 carbine and 140 handgun in the 2-day carbine course. They adjusted their drills and course content to account for the lower round counts and adding more things like relay drills, opportunity to pace your rounds expended and more lecture type content on stuff like TCCC. Would I have liked to shoot more, definitely! But I didn't feel shortchanged one bit.
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Costa CE02. I also did the HE02; I had a similar round count for that.
To be fair, I could have gotten away with more like 2k. Some people were sitting out some of the drills at the end of the course, and I was trying to run them more.
His 3 day requirements are:
Students provide their own ammo: 1800rds Minimum, and 300 rounds of Handgun ammo.
You must have taken the course before the ammo cost hit the roof. Good for you!
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Was that course before or after the recent ammo price and availability craze? I've had friends go through Costa Ludus and Magpul courses when Chris was still with them and they went through a bunch of ammo. None of them have taken the course in the last 6-8 months or so though.
The two courses I took last week were typically 1000 for the handgun and 1000 carbine and 200 handgun. Both were cut in half for this go around. If you brought more, you had plenty of opportunity to shoot that much, but I didn't feel shortchanged one bit keeping to the reduced round counts. I think I shot around 600 for the 2-day handgun course and around 500 carbine and 140 handgun in the 2-day carbine course. They adjusted their drills and course content to account for the lower round counts and adding more things like relay drills, opportunity to pace your rounds expended and more lecture type content on stuff like TCCC. Would I have liked to shoot more, definitely! But I didn't feel shortchanged one bit.
I juts finished a local school and 700 rounds kicked my ass. They stressed accuracy instead of timing your shots on target. I believe shortening the round counts, and pushing for accuracy/shot placement goes a long way for defensive shooting.
On a side note: I can recall a 4 day course we attended back in the day. Each shooter brought roughly anywhere from 3.5 to 4K worth of pistol ammo. It was good for muscle memory but it got boring after TD2 at Casa Grande, AZ. You can only train on static range for so long before it just becomes repetitious in nature.
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I juts finished a local school and 700 rounds kicked my ass. They stressed accuracy instead of timing your shots on target. I believe shortening the round counts, and pushing for accuracy/shot placement goes a long way for defensive shooting.
On a side note: I can recall a 4 day course we attended back in the day. Each shooter brought roughly anywhere from 3.5 to 4K worth of pistol ammo. It was good for muscle memory but it got boring after TD2 at Casa Grande, AZ. You can only train on static range for so long before it just becomes repetitious in nature.
The instructor of the course that I attended does stress accuracy, even with their normal round count classes that I went to last year. That when you find yourself getting fatigued and accuracy waning, to take a break and not build the bad habits into musle memory.
On one reload drill, the assistant instructor noticed that my first shot after the reload was typically out of my norm for other shots. It seems like I wasn't re-establishing my grip well after the reload and was rushing to get the follow-up shot. My time was good, but my accuracy suffered. I was still in the "hit zone" but you could tell that the shots were off. After concentrating and taking just a little longer to make sure I re-established my grip, the accuracy went back up. So it really is the little things and not necessarily slinging tons of rounds down range.
Man, I can't imagine going through 1k/day for 4 days!
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You must have taken the course before the ammo cost hit the roof. Good for you!
I attended in Mid Jan of this year, but I had ordered ammo before that. There was some SHTF, but I ended up calling the president of the ammo mfg company and explaining my situation (flights paid for, hotels paid, purchased his ammo at the start of DEC), i had to use .223 instead of 5.56 because that's what they had tooled up, but he got me my ammo. I was in full blown panic mode though! Of course, when I got there, the guys at the LAX range were there as well and sold us ammo at really good prices.
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Ok guys sorry for the delay - Finally got some hard dates back from Magpul Dynamics, here are the dates we are looking at.
February 3-5 for Carbine 1 and 7-9 for Handgun 1 or
February 10-12 for Carbine 1 and 14-16 for Handgun 1
They will need a minimum of 15 students for reach class and each class will be for 3 days.
link to magpul classeshttp://magpuldynamics.com/weapons-manipulation.html (http://magpuldynamics.com/weapons-manipulation.html)
I will put up a poll to see which dates have the most interest so we can try to maximize attendance. I am also looking into a range on Oahu that might be willing to host, will keep you posted. :shaka:
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poll for class dates added to post
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I'm much more likely to do this if its on Oahu. Itll be a steep buy in one way or the other, but much more doable if I don't have to worry about flying in, a place to stay, and transporting stuff.
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hey Jon could you update the original post with location and costs?
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I just posted the second date because it's further from SHOT. Can go with either.
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Any of these work for me:
February 3-5 for Carbine1 and 7-9 for Handgun1
February 10-12 for Carbine1
Thanks for the efforts so far!
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I originally voted for "higher than basic" level handgun or carbine since I've taken Level 1 (basic) and Level 2 (Combat/Advanced) courses already from a couple other trainers/schools. That said, if the courses are to be offered on Oahu, I would probably be down for Carbine 1.
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i got 3 non-2ahawaiimembers for the second set of dates
I just posted the second date because it's further from SHOT. Can go with either.
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I just noticed this thread.
Tentative interest from me for the second set of dates (I think Feb 10 onwards?). No can do earlier in Feb.
I also need to know "final final" cost, all in, ammo etc. (net total cost).
I see that there is a 2 day downtime between carbine and handgun. I would rather have it back to back UNLESS it was on Oahu OR we have some other training for those 2 days.
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Let's do this! I voted for the 2nd set of dates.
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SNIP
I see that there is a 2 day downtime between carbine and handgun. I would rather have it back to back UNLESS it was on Oahu OR we have some other training for those 2 days.
I understand the desire to have the classes back to back, especially from a logistics stand point where one would have to fly to the neighbor island. However, if one hasn't been throught these types of firearms classes before, especially a Level 1/Basic course, it can be VERY tiring, both physically and mentally. Most people aren't used to the volume of shooting that is done during these classes and you'll often see tape and bandages on hands by the second day.
My first class was a two day basic carbine and I was wiped out at the end of the second day. They present so much information in a short time window. Many describe it as drinking from a fire hose. I think I could have been able to have done a basic handgun class immediately before that, but I think the break would have allowed me time to absorb what was presented in the first class better and reset before proceeding to the next class. This past May, I took a two day Handgun 2 and followed up a Carbine II class and it was manageable, but I was mentally prepared after being through their Level 1 courses.
I think that for 3 day courses, the two day break in between is an excellent plan.
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[qoute]...
I think that for 3 day courses, the two day break in between is an excellent plan.
[/quote]
Good thinking! I don't care about the dates so I will not vote. I hope that won't be used to gauge interest in the class, I definitely want to take both.
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yeah, tell all your friends that are not 2ahawaii members
we need to show interest before they will commit
i would bet if we asked all the HPD/HFD and others we know, we could get a lot of interest
but without a solid amount of interest, this thing will not even get past this stage
mahalos to jonjon for even getting it this far
Let's do this! I voted for the 2nd set of dates.
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As mentioned by drck1000, multiple day courses especially that go for 3+ days are not easy for those who are new to shooting as in beginner style courses. Many are not physically prepared and mentally there is a lot to take in. The mental aspect, especially when working with firearms for beginners is almost as exhausting to their body physically as it is being on their feet and in the sun for multiple days. I do multiple day courses on a regular basis (most recently for 11 days in April) and even though I am used to it, it is still tiring. 4 days straight for many is not pleasant. I teach multiple day courses on a regular basis and just instructing I am feeling it after a week straight and I have a 2 weeker coming up the end of the month.
From pure logistics standpoint of holding courses here in Hawaii, it is challenging. I know many of the big names on the training circuit and I am continually asked about civilian or open enrollment courses in Hawaii as many trainers would love to come here. Start explaining range difficulties and overall logistics and things get complicated and costly quickly. Oahu is obviously your best bet as far as student base, but range situation is complicated. Private ranges like the Big Island is great, but that includes a lot of money for travel as many students will be from Oahu. Not knocking the Big Island in any way as I love it there and I am with family up in the Mountain View / Glenwood area often enough and shoot over there, but it can be darn cold and very very rainy especially in the winter months. While hard core types would push on, basic level courses and their students are definitely not benefited from those conditions and the overall experience might not be pleasant especially after factoring in costs to get there, etc...
I know Travis Haley well enough, from back when he used to live in Hawaii pre Magpul. When he left we stayed in contact and once he hooked up with Magpul he always wanted to hold courses here but he understood the issues here in Hawaii first hand. It would be great to have training courses here in Hawaii and I really hope you guys can get it done. I wish logistics and politics were less complicated.
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Are they going to bring back the original ammo requirements? I think it was something like 2,500 rounds for handgun, and 2,500 rounds for carbine? If so, that would be very tiring for back to back courses. I don't think I've fired more than 400 rounds in a day before.
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yeah, tell all your friends that are not 2ahawaii members
we need to show interest before they will commit
i would bet if we asked all the HPD/HFD and others we know, we could get a lot of interest
but without a solid amount of interest, this thing will not even get past this stage
mahalos to jonjon for even getting it this far
Did and two of my friends (I believe one just signed up for 2A) are much interested. I know one of them is definitely willing to put down $$ with me.
Will do more on spreading the word.
How big can these classes go? I mean with one, or even two instructors, I would think there wouldn't be much "personal" interaction, as much as a mass-drill. It'd be my first time taking a course like this so perhaps my perceptions are misguided.
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Did and two of my friends (I believe one just signed up for 2A) are much interested. I know one of them is definitely willing to put down $$ with me.
Will do more on spreading the word.
How big can these classes go? I mean with one, or even two instructors, I would think there wouldn't be much "personal" interaction, as much as a mass-drill. It'd be my first time taking a course like this so perhaps my perceptions are misguided.
I haven't gone to a Magpul class, but the classes I've been to and heard about are about max of 20-24 ish and that's usually with a main instructor and an assistant instructor and RSO at a minimum.
You don't get one on one coaching, but with good instructors, you'll usually get enough feedback during the session. I've also noticed and heard that instructors quickly get a feel who generally know their stuff and who needs more help. That's when you hear about "that guy" who sometimes holds the class up with gear issues or not being safe.
If you are generally safety conscious, pay attention and really listen to the instructor, you'll be find. Just to slow and take it all in. Yeah, shooting is serious stuff, but have fun as well!
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bum(ag)p(ul)
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i think it's pretty sad that even if we were to have a class in our state, most of us still need to catch a plane to attend, despite how tiny of state we are.
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cheaper to buy the vids dress up cosplay style and do dry fire drills...pew pew pew...