2aHawaii
Tools and Uses => Firearms and Accessories => Topic started by: 2aHawaii on October 25, 2009, 01:17:31 PM
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I was looking at 1911s recently and most of them seem to be $1000 and more, which is more than I can justify spending on one. Does anyone have any experience with some of the less expensive designs like Rock Island Armory (Armscor), Metro Arms American Classic, or Charles Daly?
Do you have any recommendations?
And does anyone local sell lower price 1911s?
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I got a Rock Island Armory for $400 and have been consistently amazed at what a great gun it is!
In the hands of a better marksman than I, I've seen it print cloverleafs at 25 yards using Blazer and Lawman ammo. I "torture tested" it the first weekend I owned it, running 600 rounds thru without cleaning. I didn't have the first malfunction until after round 500. I unconditionally recommend the RIA!
Not, that being said, it is a stock m1911a1. Which means it has the original sights and the original grip safety. I'm fine with the sights, but the short grip safety means I got hammer bite every time I shot it. Not that big an issue for me, but I also use it as a class gun, so I had an extended beavertail installed. I think that added about $80 to the gun.
I also picked up a set of Pachmyer rubber grips, again not because I felt it needed them, but because I didn't wand the beautiful wood panels getting scratched up by careless class participants.
I have shot high-end 1911s, Kimbers and such, guns costing over $1200. And I can honestly say that I have never shot a 1911 I liked more than I like my RIA.
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That sounds like a great gun. I'm a big fan of the 1911 but was deterred by their steep price and reluctantly delegated it to a "sometime in the future" purchase. If you're saying I can get a good one for around 500+, I am definitely interested. Is there anything else other than the after market parts you mentioned that you would recommend doing to the gun?
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I too have heard great things about the RIA gun. I suppose the question that needs to be asked is what will the gun be used for? For example, if your 1911 purchase was going to be a fun gun for the weekend trip to the range then yes, buy a gun that fits your budget. Learn and grow with it. Find out what you like and dislike about it. And as Tom G mentioned, find out what mods work for you. (i.e high beavertail grip safety, ambi or strong side safties, etc.) On the flip side, if you were looking for a duty gun, a concealed carry gun (provided you were in a CCW state), home defense gun, or your go-to shit hit the fan-the zombies are coming gun, then you might look into something that is above the $1,000 mark. Although be warned, you could easily spend this on a Kimber and still be in a sub-par 1911 in the reliability department. I myself spent many unwanted dollars in pursuit of making my Kimber reliable and still have not got the level of satisfaction I sent out to find. On the flip side, you might get lucky finding a great RIA like Tom did or a great Springfield Mil-spec and never have to look back.
I am not saying you need to follow my footsteps but this is where my search has taken me. I wanted a 1911 with Glock reliablity and it has taken me down a road where the cost of the trip is upwards of $2500. "What the hell kind of gun costs that?" is what you might be asking. LOL Trust me... i ask myself the same question sometimes... especially when I have a bunch of Glocks and a Sig to fill the bill in the "reliability" department. I am currently having a 1911 built by a gunsmith, Steve Morrison. Steve's vast knowledge of the 1911, namely Colt's, and his no-nonsense approach at building guns lead me to commissioning the build with him.
I will attach some links for you to read. Bottom line? Get yourself a RIA or a Springfield GI or Mil-spec, play with it, tinker with it, find out if you like the platform. For all you know the 1911 bug will bite you as hard as it has with me. Someone once told me "1911 is a geat gun... when it shoots", its obvious from Tom's input it doesn't have to be this way. Just be sure to define the role you want your 1911 to be and let that dictate your budget.
http://www.10-8performance.com/id2.html (http://www.10-8performance.com/id2.html)
Read the articles on this page, Hilton Yam is considered one of the top consultants of 1911's
http://marsguns.com/Home.htm (http://marsguns.com/Home.htm)
This is Steve Morrison's website.
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Sorry my reply was so lengthy! :o I love 1911's and tend to get carried away when talking about it. ;D
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That sounds like a great gun. I'm a big fan of the 1911 but was deterred by their steep price and reluctantly delegated it to a "sometime in the future" purchase. If you're saying I can get a good one for around 500+, I am definitely interested. Is there anything else other than the after market parts you mentioned that you would recommend doing to the gun?
As I mentioned, I use this for a class gun. And I am sometimes lazy about cleaning. That combination landed me with a rusty mainspring housing after about a year. So, rather than change my ways, I had the gun recoated with NP3 (http://www.robarguns.com/np3.htm). Which cost me another $400, but it was as much of an experiment as anything.
You're welcome to shoot it... I'll make a point to be at the HRA fun shoot on 11/29.
As far as after-market parts, that's up to you. If I was just using it as a personal gun, I wouldn't have changed anything. If you go look up RIA on 1911 forums, you'll find a whole grocery list of "standard" upgrades, including recoil springs and buffers, sights, extended or ambi safeties, lightweight triggers, blah blah blah.
For me, I want a gun that is reliable and shoots where I point it. That's the RIA.
But back to the question... since this is a milspec gun, there are THOUSANDS of choices for upgrades if that is your taste. Brownell's actually publishes a 1911 parts catalog. An entire catalog, ALL FOR THE 1911! (http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=48687/sku/1911_Catalog) Hammers, triggers, bushings, sights, springs, sears, magazines, you name it. Some are drop-in, some require gunsmithing.
Order the gun, shoot it for a few months, and decide for yourself what it "needs."
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Thanks Tom, I think I will do just that. ;D
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Here is a good thread for those of you looking into 1911's.http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=40316 (http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=40316)
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In the latest Shotgun News, Sarco has the RIA 1911a1 for $379.99. Add $25 for shipping and $30 for FFL transfer, that's still under $450.
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Which shop carry RIA? I went to Young Guns, and they said they don't carry it. I'd love to get a 1911 also but the price is just to much for me, it was actually my first choice.
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Magnum carried them, but I think their prices were pretty high. ~$550 IIRC
It would probably be cheaper to order it and pay shipping and FFL transfer fees.
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You will rarely see one in a gun store. They have to mark it up to make a profit, and everybody knows that you can order these for under $500. Use a local FFL (I recommend Al at Ready on the RIght) and order from Sarco.
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Sarco now has the standard RIA 1911 for $350!!! They also have "tactical" and compact models in stock.
Their website doesn't have an actual posting, you have to download their ad from Shotgun News. Which you can do right here. (http://www.sarcoinc.com/gunorderinfo.htm)
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Interesting topic. I have long lusted for a Colt Gold Cup...maybe next year.
I forgot to ask the gunsmiths at the last gun show if it was possible to polish a turd. Are you better off paying more money up front with less gunsmithing or less money upfront with more gunsmithing.
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With the cost of ammo growing more and more expensive, .45's haven't been a priority for me. The good thing is that 1911's come in different calibers too. Centerfire systems is selling a 9mm RIA 1911 for $380 (http://www.centerfiresystems.com/AC-RI1911-9MM.aspx). It's on backorder right now.
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WOW, with pricing like that its easy to see why! 9mm 1911's are a dream to shoot! With a 9 rnd capacity and Hawaii's law limiting us to 10rnds, I'd say it would be one hell of a great shooter in all aspects.
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Are you better off paying more money up front with less gunsmithing or less money upfront with more gunsmithing.
Why do you assume that there will be gunsmithing required? I admittedly made some changes to my RIA, but those were all motivated by the fact that I use it for a class gun, putting it in the hands of people with little-to-no knowledge about guns. Were it a Tom-only gun, I wouldn't have touched it.
To answer your question, though, start with a list of what you want from your gun, then do a little research. You can find costs for parts and ballpark estimates from gunsmiths online pretty easily. So what is it you need in a 1911?
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Are you better off paying more money up front with less gunsmithing or less money upfront with more gunsmithing.
Why do you assume that there will be gunsmithing required? I admittedly made some changes to my RIA, but those were all motivated by the fact that I use it for a class gun, putting it in the hands of people with little-to-no knowledge about guns. Were it a Tom-only gun, I wouldn't have touched it.
To answer your question, though, start with a list of what you want from your gun, then do a little research. You can find costs for parts and ballpark estimates from gunsmiths online pretty easily. So what is it you need in a 1911?
Not assuming. That is why I'm asking. I'm a noob and this is part of my research. If one can get an out of the box $400 pistol to perform as well as an out of the box $1000 pistol then that's $600 worth of ammo you can stock up on. That to me is smart.
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As with all things gun and internet, your mileage may vary.
One of the fringe benefits of being an instructor with LIFE and active member in the HRA is that I get to shoot with a lot of gun nuts, including a firearms store owner and a gunsmith, on a regular basis. We all like to show off our toys, so I've had the opportunity to shoot some high-end 1911s, as well as some heavily customized ones. And, using my RIA, I've also competed against those guns.
In every case, the winners have been winners due to superior skill, technique, and luck. I've never lost because someone had a "better" gun than me. The RIA goes bang when you pull the trigger, and sends the bullet where you point the gun.
Now, I will freely admit that some of those name-brand guns have smoother triggers. Some have tighter actions. Most have bells and whistles that don't matter to me, like ambidextrious safeties, flared ejection ports, camfered magazine wells.
In terms of practical use, though, my RIA groups as well as any other 1911 I've shot. It is highly reliable. A solid performer.
The one and only shortcoming that I have found in my RIA is that it doesn't care for lead semi-wadcutters. Some 1911s will handle them, but my RIA is not a fan.
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Thanks Tom, I appreciate it.