2aHawaii
General Topics => Legal and Activism => Topic started by: branz1029 on June 28, 2013, 10:46:43 PM
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PRETTY STUPID QUESTION, I DONT PLAN ON IT HAPPENING BUT I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW;
DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT HAPPENS IN THE CASE OF A NEGLIGENT DISCHARGE IN YOUR HOME?
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Your neighbors call the cops......or they don't.
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It's call oops. And she might be pregnant!
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Your neighbors call the cops......or they don't.
Then the police may or may not charge you with reckless endangerment per 707-714 (a) Engages in conduct that recklessly places another person in danger of death or serious bodily injury; or
(b) Intentionally discharges a firearm in a populated area, in a residential area, or within the boundaries or in the direction of any road, street, or highway; provided that the provisions of this paragraph shall not apply to any person who discharges a firearm upon a target range for the purpose of the target shooting done in compliance with all laws and regulations applicable thereto.
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As long as no one gets hurt, deny deny deny.
"Yes officer, I heard a loud bang too. I have no idea where it came from."
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I know someone who had a ND while cleaning under the influence (dumbo) and shot his carpet and it travelled all the way across the room under the carpet to the neighboring apt wall.
He said he quickly cleaned up his house from any possibly illegal items (dumpster) and turned off the lights and hid in the room all night til the next morning thinking the cops were coming and in the meantime he said he heard "eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee" ringing on his ears all night long.
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PRETTY STUPID QUESTION, I DONT PLAN ON IT HAPPENING BUT I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW;
DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT HAPPENS IN THE CASE OF A NEGLIGENT DISCHARGE IN YOUR HOME?
If you draw from past events (Nov 2012 - The guy who shot himself in the leg & Feb 2013 - Rifle went off while cleaning)? The answer is nothing would happen, because there's no laws against stupidity.
Then the police may or may not charge you with reckless endangerment per 707-714 (a) Engages in conduct that recklessly places another person in danger of death or serious bodily injury; or
(b) Intentionally discharges a firearm in a populated area, in a residential area, or within the boundaries or in the direction of any road, street, or highway; provided that the provisions of this paragraph shall not apply to any person who discharges a firearm upon a target range for the purpose of the target shooting done in compliance with all laws and regulations applicable thereto.
They could but I seriously doubt that they would of that it'd be prosecuted. Without an admission or witnesses; intent is impossible to prove.
As long as no one gets hurt, deny deny deny.
"Yes officer, I heard a loud bang too. I have no idea where it came from."
It'd probably be better to neither confirm or deny anything and just state: "I have nothing to say" or "I'm not answering any questions". Lying would just open one up to some obstruction charge, which is a misdemeanor.
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I have a question that relates to this topic. Would I be charged with A ND if i had a clearing bin like they have at HPD, and was testing for function in my house?
Could it be done if I have it in a room that's insulated to muffle sound? Sucks when you need to go all the way to the range just to test fire something,
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:)
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As long as no one gets hurt, deny deny deny.
"Yes officer, I heard a loud bang too. I have no idea where it came from."
i think this is the best answer.
And then. Take a long look at your firearms safety because there is no reason it should happen in the first place
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You don't need to prove intent.
(1) A person commits the offense of reckless endangering in the second degree if the person:
(a) Engages in conduct that recklessly places another person in danger of death or serious bodily injury
Go back and read what was quoted and responded to. You'll understand that proving intent would be necessary in that matter.
That aside...HRS ยง707-714 (1)(a) is about reckless behavior and the OP does not give enough detail to infer recklessness or the endagerment of others. A charge and successful conviction would still be unlikely without witnessess or an admission.
And possibly get arrested more so because you aren't cooperating. Just be honest. Own up to your mistake.
Obstruction charge?
AGAIN, you've read the response while ignoring what it was a response to...
The point was when someone lies to a police officer, they are impeding (interfering, hindering, obstructing) their investigation, which is a chargeable offense. So it's better to say nothing, than to lie. And it's not about some code of honor or moral obligation to tell the truth or taking responsibility; When it comes to a criminal investigation, you always protect yourself. Whether you did it or not, any decent attorney will tell you to know when to shut up. [Just for clarification and so you don't read into things, I'm not talking about doing some "am I under arrest or free to leave" crap that's all over YouTube. Everyone just needs to know that people get arrested all the time for statements made in good faith during "routine" questioning because they fail to comprehend that their right to remain silent exists even before you're mirandized.]
And you can NOT get arrested because "you aren't cooperating". There is no law that says you MUST cooperate or answer any questions (regardless of the circumstances). Why? The 5th Amendment.
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
But hey, if you (or anyone) ever find yourself in such a situation feel free to say/do what you want. I can guarantee that if you admit to anything, you'll find yourself in cuffs, posting bail, surrendering your permit to acquire along with ALL your firearms & ammo until they decide whether to prosecute or not.
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And possibly get arrested more so because you aren't cooperating. Just be honest. Own up to your mistake.
Obstruction charge?
Are you serious? You have got to be joking or have little understanding how the legal system works. Obstruction, for not turning yourself in for something. The fifth amendment is rolling over in it's grave for you.
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The point was when someone lies to a police officer, they are impeding (interfering, hindering, obstructing) their investigation, which is a chargeable offense. So it's better to say nothing, than to lie. And it's not about some code of honor or moral obligation to tell the truth or taking responsibility; When it comes to a criminal investigation, you always protect yourself. Whether you did it or not, any decent attorney will tell you to know when to shut up. [Just for clarification and so you don't read into things, I'm not talking about doing some "am I under arrest or free to leave" crap that's all over YouTube. Everyone just needs to know that people get arrested all the time for statements made in good faith during "routine" questioning because they fail to comprehend that their right to remain silent exists even before you're mirandized.]
People lie to the police all the time, "No Officer, I wasn't speeding." You have no obligation to tell them anything truthful (unless they are the Feds), or are under oath for something.
Re: Miranda - people really mistake what this is for and should read up on it.
Re: "am I under arrest or free to leave" - that would generally be am I being detained or am I free to go, because he has to answer or I will walk away from them or drive my car away. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that information presented on youtube; in fact, it's spot on for what you should do.
Re: Right to remain silent - you need to articulate that you do not want to speak to them, and that you want an attorney prior to questioning. Failure to do so, could impose guilt on you later in court for remaining quiet.
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As long as no one gets hurt, deny deny deny.
"Yes officer, I heard a loud bang too. I have no idea where it came from."
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I'm sorry, I'm not understanding what you're referring to here "Obstruction, for not turning yourself in or something".
So lets look at this hypothetical situation.....
You are in your home and you have an accidental discharge of your firearm. Multiple people call the police saying they heard a gunshot coming from your residence. Police show up to investigate. You tell them nothing. They check and find out you do have firearms registered.
Is there not reasonable suspicion to believe you did discharge a firearm in your house?
What happens from there? The police just leave?
I don't tell them anything without first talking to a lawyer.
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I'm sorry, I'm not understanding what you're referring to here "Obstruction, for not turning yourself in or something".
So lets look at this hypothetical situation.....
You are in your home and you have an accidental discharge of your firearm. Multiple people call the police saying they heard a gunshot coming from your residence. Police show up to investigate. You tell them nothing. They check and find out you do have firearms registered.
Is there not reasonable suspicion to believe you did discharge a firearm in your house?
What happens from there? The police just leave?
Part of the 5th amendment prevents self incrimination. That means if they ask you did you fire your weapon or whatever, you don't need to say yes or no and incriminate yourself. You can refuse to answer any question that can potentially make you guilty of something.
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And given the situation, isn't there enough probable cause to be arrested.
I'll give you another situation.
If there are numerous calls of a woman's screams coming from a residence. Police show up to investigate and a man opens the door. He has blood on his hands. He doesn't want to say anything. What do the police do?
Entirely different situation.
Probable cause means the officer has to PERSONALLY see, hear or smell something that leads him to believe that something has occurred.
If I call the police on you and say that I heard a gunshot come from your house, the officer doesn't have the right to kick down your door to see.
If I call the police on you and say that I hear a woman's screams coming from your house, the officer arrives and PERSONALLY hears blood curdling screams for help, he has every right to kick open your door because he now has probable cause.
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Kingkeoni, I understand, but it's not an entirely different situation. I never said police heard the screams. Same as the gunshot situation, someone calls to report a situation and police respond. They knock on the door and the homeowner answers the door. Police tell him they heard screams coming from his residence. He tells them he wants to talk to a lawyer before he says anything. Police see blood on his hand. What do the police do? Just leave?
Entirely different situation.
Probable cause means the officer has to PERSONALLY see, hear or smell something that leads him to believe that something has occurred.
If I call the police on you and say that I heard a gunshot come from your house, the officer doesn't have the right to kick down your door to see.
If I call the police on you and say that I hear a woman's screams coming from your house, the officer arrives and PERSONALLY sees blood on your hands
That gives him probable cause.
He has to personally see hear or smell something in order to act.
You can't just go around arresting people because some yahoo over reacted and called the police.
What if you were watching your new 5000 watt surround sound system and the officer arrests you.
The lucky guy who gets arrested will sue the stuffing out of HPD.
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See, I never said the officer has the right to kick your door down. I said they can check to see if you own firearms. In which the checks should show that you do own firearms.
So going back to my scenario, since the officer sees blood on your hands, that is enough probably cause to arrest you?
Owning a firearm is not probable cause to arrest someone.
The constitution of the United States explicitly states that you have a right to "keep and bear arms".
Blood on your hands is an entire different situation.
The blood would give them probable cause for an arrest. (I presume)
Charges would be another situation altogether.
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You guys need to focus on one set of circumstances at a time. Either there is a blood-covered guy at the door who may or may not have caused his gun to scream for help, or the police are investigating a reported gunshot noise when you force them to arrest you by taking the 5th ... which is a crime.
:wtf: :wacko:
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Without a search warrant or probable cause, you could tell the, to go fornicate themselves and they can't do a damn thing about it.
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Without a search warrant or probable cause, you could tell the, to go fornicate themselves and they can't do a damn thing about it.
But, make sure your phone is recording audio and video of the beat-down ... to be used for evidence later. :thumbsup:
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True
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OK, I guess these other scenarios may have gotten things side tracked. Lets go back to the original post and what seems to be the majority rule of responses.
Most of you are saying that if you refuse to say anything, police cannot do anything. Well since you all are so confident in your answers, try it. Go pop off some rounds in your house so the neighbors call the police. When the police get there, don't say anything. I want to see if your answers match the results. If it is as you say, nothing will happen.
Since you want to recreate stupid scenarios, why don't you beat your wife till she screams and someone calls the police.
Stab her and make sure your hands get all bloody, then answer the door like that and see what the police do.
:stopjack:
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OK, I guess these other scenarios may have gotten things side tracked. Lets go back to the original post and what seems to be the majority rule of responses.
Most of you are saying that if you refuse to say anything, police cannot do anything. Well since you all are so confident in your answers, try it. Go pop off some rounds in your house so the neighbors call the police. When the police get there, don't say anything. I want to see if your answers match the results. If it is as you say, nothing will happen.
This is all purely hypothetical, so of course you can make whatever arguments and challenges you want to entertain yourself. When something like this really happens, you have to look at all the facts and the actions of those involved, including the cops. In some circumstances, silence will save you a conviction. In others, open communication and a good explanation may mean you receive nothing more than a "be more careful next time" from the cops.
This situation actually happened with my friend's son in NC last month. No arrest and no civil complaints. The son's roommate accidentally fired a friend's AK-47 downward through the floor and into the apartment below very close to the woman living there. According to the lease, the landlord had no choice but to evict the son and his roommate. The friend who owned the gun suffered no legal consequences. This could have been a major tragedy had the weapon been pointed at one of the people in the room or been aimed a couple feet closer to the neighbor's position. The cops weren't even called, either by the neighbor below or any other tenant.
So, you see, you can devise any number of details you want, but none of the reactions are cut and dried ... not those of the neighbors nor of the cops.
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:sleeping:
You have your opinion and apparently any one that doesn't agree with you make no sense to you.
You do whatever you want when you have a ND in your home. :thumbsup:
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Ok just drop it. Obviously no one can give me a legitimate answer. So much for constructive discussion.
Everyone gave you answers.
You just didn't like them.
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call HPD and ask them directly....
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If you're dumb enough to ND, you're not smart enough to outsmart anyone :P
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thanks for all the reply peps, i just wanted to clear a few things up
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As long as no one gets hurt, deny deny deny.
"Yes officer, I heard a loud bang too. I have no idea where it came from."
I'm sorry officer I was playing "Saving Private Ryan" too loudly. It won't happen again.
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I'm sorry officer I was playing "Saving Private Ryan" too loudly. It won't happen again.
:thumbsup:
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I'm sorry officer I was playing "Saving Private Ryan" too loudly. It won't happen again.
:thumbsup: :shaka:
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Dude, you just got my call of duty team killed, what's your problem!?
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Dude, you just got my call of duty team killed, what's your problem!?
Ha ha ha ha ha.
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Dude, you just got my call of duty team killed, what's your problem!?
LMAO!!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Here's a classic ND with a single action 1911 in Condition One...ouch. ;D Yes, even with all the safety features.
Original Upload, I Just Shot Myself! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYvAxLX6OzE#ws)
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All you need to know about Tex Grebner! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKakGX2AqNI#ws)
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thats hilarious !!! :wtf:
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Cop: sir we have reports of what sounded like a gun shot. Do you know anything about that?
You: what?!
Cop: a gun shot
You: WHAT?!
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Cop: sir we have reports of what sounded like a gun shot. Do you know anything about that?
You: what?!
Cop: a gun shot
You: WHAT?!
:rofl: :rofl: