2aHawaii
Tools and Uses => Firearms and Accessories => Topic started by: passivekinetic on July 16, 2013, 11:27:48 AM
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Instead of generalizing to all women, I will just ask this question regarding my wife (but from what I understand, it applies widely).
Due to differing muscle structure between myself and my wife, my wife finds it extremely difficult to rack the slide on a pistol, or even cock the hammer on a revolver. She cannot pull a Double Action trigger. It is OK if I cock it first into SA but I can't be the only person to always pre-chamber a round, etc. which is also dangerous since the gun would then be in chambered mode or cocked and NOT locked. Not all guns have safeties and a decocker safety defeats the chambering.
So, what do you guys suggest? She can BARELY rack the slide, so she does rack the slide but prefers me to do it for her at the range.
Suggestions for her to improve muscle strength are well meaning but impractical as you can understand. Women generally do not prioritize firearms. Anyway there are cans and lids in the kitchen that I often have to open for her (and all her friends whenever we visit) and I found that almost all her female friends just cannot open very simple lids that I am surprised because I am not a huge muscular guy, but I opened those lids quite easily.
ANY FIREARM TYPE SUGGESTION? (I don't think my wife can chamber a round on the AR-15 with the charging handle; maybe the round might be loaded but not seated right, and require the forward assist; too many things for her to think about in case of urgency).
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>:D
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i have a friend (guy) who has small hands and arms (think that guy on the burger king commercials)
and he does better with h&ks
he thinks the tolerances are better engineered
another thing is that he learned to use his chest muscles more (move right and left hands across the chest rather than racking from behind)
Revolver with internal hammer.
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ANY FIREARM TYPE SUGGESTION?
I suggest a DAO revolver or a double barrel shotgun (20ga) with a shortened LOP, youth stock.
Most DAO revolvers (bobbed hammer) have significantly lighter trigger pulls than a standard DA revolver.
My wife is tiny and these are what she likes.
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IMHO, (if she is physically capable) you should teach her different ways that might be easier for her to rack your handguns instead of buying an "easy" gun for her. What if in an emergency situation she needed to use a weapon for self defense and only your gun was near her and you weren't around?
My gf had a hard time racking some handguns until she changed the way she does it.
Racking a Slide Like a Lady (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Q8ZRlkdWVc#)
you can also check this vid and pay attention to the points about revolvers
Tips for Teaching Women to Shoot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVFWn4D_OMY#)
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Hey thanks, let me review the videos with her. It's true that she really should be able to use any firearm on hand since usually the bad guys take out the males first.
BTW revolver with internal hammer... that is DAO only right? She is not able to press the trigger on an uncocked Beretta 92 for DA shooting. I don't know how much less of a DA trigger pull the internal hammer might be.
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the 2nd vid is for you :thumbsup:
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dirsh +1
My thoughts exactly. Try Different techniques before giving up on a firearm; its free. Some people have a difficult time racking the slide until they use a push/pull technique which employs the strength of both hands and arms working in opposite directions.
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A lot of it is understanding how to use proper technique, but in the case of your wife............damn dude really? Is she not even able to carry a 10# bag of rice?
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>:D
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Ive seen extended slide racking posts on 1911s for ipsc, I'm sure that can help
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dirsch - vid 1 my wife commented "why does she have porn music playing?" :D
passivekinetic - this has been a factor here too (esp. as we age, arthritis, sports injuries, etc.). easiest guns to rack have been small caliber with their lighter springs ie. Mustang & P238 (she loves it); SR22 (ditto). her PT111-pro is also quite easy to rack. the triggers are also nice with her small hands. so my suggestion is for your wife to go store and try some out, *she* will find something and something is better than nothing even if "sub-caliber".
forget about revolvers she will not be able to pull most of the triggers DA and it will suck.
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+1 on the double barrel. Really doesn't get more simple than that, unless you use a single shot.
I might be getting rid of one soon, so let me know its something you might be interested in.
If someone doesn't have the strength to rack a semi auto pistol, do you really want to put a double barrel shotgun in her hands...
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A lot of it is understanding how to use proper technique, but in the case of your wife............damn dude really? Is she not even able to carry a 10# bag of rice?
10 lbs rice should be fine. But I have found that somehow the twisting action, such as twisting off lids, bottle caps, etc. even ketchup bottles, most of the women I have encountered just cannot do it if the lid is even a little stuck.
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+1 on the double barrel. Really doesn't get more simple than that, unless you use a single shot.
I might be getting rid of one soon, so let me know its something you might be interested in.
Thanks but probably not on my acquisition list in the near term. I still need to buy more Glocks!!! ;D ;D ;D
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If someone doesn't have the strength to rack a semi auto pistol, do you really want to put a double barrel shotgun in her hands...
Haha maybe she won't even have to shoot it. Just point at the guy and he will run. :D
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Haha maybe she won't even have to shoot it. Just point at the guy and he will run. :D
petite woman holding a big shotgun :o...yep, I'd run!
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If someone doesn't have the strength to rack a semi auto pistol, do you really want to put a double barrel shotgun in her hands...
Different muscles used.
Managing recoil is a whole body thing.
I've seen frail old ladies shooting skeet.
Shotguns are a miraculous thing.
Incredible power, extreme versatility, and universally adaptable to all body sizes and types.
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How about this?
Conventional 1911 with 10-12 lb spring and light ball or semiwadcutter loads.
And a few minutes of practicing the push-pull technique.
This would be more reliable than a lightened DA revolver.
Maybe about the same stopping power as a 380 but that would be a guess.
Certainly more intimidating appearance than most other handguns.
The only downside is a possible limp-wrist malfunction.
You have a 1911 that you can try this out with?
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Certainly more intimidating appearance than most other handguns.
I think just about any handgun pointed at someone carries the same intimidation factor.
Now a shotgun pointed at someone...
That induces involuntary sphincter relaxation.
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How about this?
Conventional 1911 with 10-12 lb spring and light ball or semiwadcutter loads.
And a few minutes of practicing the push-pull technique.
This would be more reliable than a lightened DA revolver.
Maybe about the same stopping power as a 380 but that would be a guess.
Certainly more intimidating appearance than most other handguns.
The only downside is a possible limp-wrist malfunction.
You have a 1911 that you can try this out with?
Nope. No 1911. There is a little part of my brain somewhere back there that says "Yeah! Let's get a 1911!" but nope... not for now. There is a slightly louder side that says "Glock! Another Glock!" but seriously, more likely I will buy a bolt gun and a CX4 this year.
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Nope. No 1911. There is a little part of my brain somewhere back there that says "Yeah! Let's get a 1911!" but nope... not for now. There is a slightly louder side that says "Glock! Another Glock!" but seriously, more likely I will buy a bolt gun and a CX4 this year.
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I thought we were talking about a home defense pistol for someone with weak hands.
I know some people advocate a shotgun or rifle for home defense, but I think it is more difficult to deploy a long arm quickly.
Assuming the firearm is secured, as it should be.
My other thought is that in a typical home here, wielding a long arm is clumsier because of tight spaces.
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Now a shotgun pointed at someone...
That induces involuntary sphincter relaxation.
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:thumbsup:
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I thought we were talking about a home defense pistol for someone with weak hands.
I know some people advocate a shotgun or rifle for home defense, but I think it is more difficult to deploy a long arm quickly.
Assuming the firearm is secured, as it should be.
My other thought is that in a typical home here, wielding a long arm is clumsier because of tight spaces.
Yup, you're right. Kinda got off topic.
And you're right again, handgun is usually the best for indoors defense. Even Massad F. Ayoob says so (in terms of handgun v. shotgun for home defense), mainly due to handling indoors and follow-up shot rapidity.
Well I guess there isn't really any "perfect" solution; i.e., a handgun that is easy to rack/cock that puts out a decent stopping power (otherwise we'd be talking about .22LR on a platform such as the Ruger Mark 3).
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10 lbs rice should be fine. But I have found that somehow the twisting action, such as twisting off lids, bottle caps, etc. even ketchup bottles, most of the women I have encountered just cannot do it if the lid is even a little stuck.
I think if she can carry a 10# bag of rice which is basically upper body and forearm strength, she should be OK with proper training. I've let a little gal (4'-10" maybe) shoot my 1911 (in 45acp) before and she had no problems racking the slide or handling recoil.
Nope. No 1911. There is a little part of my brain somewhere back there that says "Yeah! Let's get a 1911!" but nope... not for now. There is a slightly louder side that says "Glock! Another Glock!" but seriously, more likely I will buy a bolt gun and a CX4 this year.
You might want to let her try and load up some of the 9mm magazines. Some of those are extremely tough to load and give big guys trouble a lot of times.
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I think if she can carry a 10# bag of rice which is basically upper body and forearm strength, she should be OK with proper training. I've let a little gal (4'-10" maybe) shoot my 1911 (in 45acp) before and she had no problems racking the slide or handling recoil.
You might want to let her try and load up some of the 9mm magazines. Some of those are extremely tough to load and give big guys trouble a lot of times.
Myself I have found 1911 (I don't have one but shot some before) easier to rack the slide than on Glocks / SIGs. Not sure if this is always the case or I just happened to shoot 1911 that have been well broken in.*
On your second statement I am not sure what you mean. You mean putting 9mm cartridges inside the magazines? (Those are painful for everyone; I try to use the loaders when I can but only 1 or 2 mags, thumbs will be "OK" without the loader).
* Speaking of which... any recommendations on 1911 platform using 9mm? Something I might consider and put on the To Do list.
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do a search
i asked that same question about 9mm 1911s a few months ago
Myself I have found 1911 (I don't have one but shot some before) easier to rack the slide than on Glocks / SIGs. Not sure if this is always the case or I just happened to shoot 1911 that have been well broken in.*
On your second statement I am not sure what you mean. You mean putting 9mm cartridges inside the magazines? (Those are painful for everyone; I try to use the loaders when I can but only 1 or 2 mags, thumbs will be "OK" without the loader).
* Speaking of which... any recommendations on 1911 platform using 9mm? Something I might consider and put on the To Do list.
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do a search
i asked that same question about 9mm 1911s a few months ago
Found! :-)
http://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=8706.msg83708#msg83708 (http://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=8706.msg83708#msg83708)
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good job!
Found! :-)
http://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=8706.msg83708#msg83708 (http://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=8706.msg83708#msg83708)
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Hey, OK, so actually that thread woke me up a bit. (But also was a bit hard for me to follow because my brain had to SWITCH GEARS to go between automobiles and firearms; dang!).
So, Browning Hi-Power.
What do you guys think? Anyone have it?
Is this "basically" a 1911 design except purpose built for 9mm?
Any bad review on the Hi-power?
PS - Hi-power can be Cocked & Locked, yes?
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The BHP is John M Browning's last firearm design. He never finished because he died, but a designer from Fabrique Nacional (FN) in Belgium completed it using his Browning's old patent designs.
So, the BHP is supposed to be Browning's latest masterpiece, taking what he learned from the 1911's design and putting it into the BHP. I would consider the BHP to have a place in a gun collector's inventory. Some 1911 purists say that the BHP is the only 9mm they would consider owning.
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The BHP is John M Browning's last firearm design. He never finished because he died, but a designer from Fabrique Nacional (FN) in Belgium completed it using his Browning's old patent designs.
So, the BHP is supposed to be Browning's latest masterpiece, taking what he learned from the 1911's design and putting it into the BHP. I would consider the BHP to have a place in a gun collector's inventory. Some 1911 purists say that the BHP is the only 9mm they would consider owning.
Interesting. I noticed the trigger is not like the 1911 straight pullback.
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On your second statement I am not sure what you mean. You mean putting 9mm cartridges inside the magazines? (Those are painful for everyone; I try to use the loaders when I can but only 1 or 2 mags, thumbs will be "OK" without the loader).
* Speaking of which... any recommendations on 1911 platform using 9mm? Something I might consider and put on the To Do list.
I say try to put rounds into a 9mm magazine because if that's what she's shooting she should be loading her own mags. If you're not there and her life depends on it, she better be able to do it.
1911 9mm.......Dan Wesson.
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I say try to put rounds into a 9mm magazine because if that's what she's shooting she should be loading her own mags. If you're not there and her life depends on it, she better be able to do it.
1911 9mm.......Dan Wesson.
OK I see, thanks. Makes sense.
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Haha, is a 1911 in .22LR even worse blasphemy?
:D
http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/family.asp?webflag_=028B&catalog_=B (http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/family.asp?webflag_=028B&catalog_=B)
Anyway it will have to be in 9mm. I do not want my wife to be confused with .45ACP, .40S&W and 9mm in an emergency. 9mm is the only handgun ammo I have for that exact reason.
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45 too much, lets get a 9mm, no that's too much, lets get a 22lr.
STOP THE INSANITY
stop the insanity! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ur0g-R7ZODY#ws)
20 gauge coach gun.
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Crazy joe's double barrel of justice ? :D
( I just love sayin' that )
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Crazy joe's double barrel of justice ? :D
( I just love sayin' that )
Problem with that is, you have to shoot it into the air (twice) on your porch. Then the bad guys will scurry away (after they hear you shot both your barrels empty, that is).
I don't got no porch.
Or porche.
:-D
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Hey, OK, so actually that thread woke me up a bit. (But also was a bit hard for me to follow because my brain had to SWITCH GEARS to go between automobiles and firearms; dang!).
So, Browning Hi-Power.
What do you guys think? Anyone have it?
Is this "basically" a 1911 design except purpose built for 9mm?
Any bad review on the Hi-power?
PS - Hi-power can be Cocked & Locked, yes?
I have a Hi-Power and I like it a lot. Very comfortable grip, very reliable with good ammo and generally quite accurate. The stock trigger sucks--it's heavy and creepy. The magazine safety usually prevents the mags from dropping and it adds to the bad trigger pull. Removing it usually improves the trigger but it's totally up to you if you want to remove a safety feature.
Cocked and locked is an option with the HP--whether or not it's practical depends on which model you have. The older, classic versions have a very small safety lever that is difficult to operate. The newer versions have a larger lever that's easier to manipulate. Since I only use the HP for target shooting, cocked and locked is moot.
HPs are pretty hard to find and an older one usually commands a high price, so I imagine it's difficult for a person unfamiliar with the design to handle/shoot one enough to form their own opinions.
I also have a Kimber and a Springfield 1911 in 9mm and those are really nice shooting guns--very soft on recoil and reliablilty/accuracy is good. Accessories will be much easier to find for the 1911 as opposed to the HP.
Either pistol will be easy to sell, should you find that you want to get rid of it for any reason.
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Hey, OK, so actually that thread woke me up a bit. (But also was a bit hard for me to follow because my brain had to SWITCH GEARS to go between automobiles and firearms; dang!).
So, Browning Hi-Power.
What do you guys think? Anyone have it?
Is this "basically" a 1911 design except purpose built for 9mm?
Any bad review on the Hi-power?
PS - Hi-power can be Cocked & Locked, yes?
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I have a great BHP, but it is not an ordinary model. It has also been customized and trigger tuned by a 'smith that is no longer here on O'ahu. In fact I don't even know where he went.
The problem with BHP is that if you get one with a poor trigger, I don't know that anyone around here will tune the trigger for you, or even perform minor modifications since it is pretty rare.
The BHP can be carried in condition-1 but the old stock thumb safety pretty much sucks.
I do not believe a stock BHP is 100% reliable with JHP ammo. SImilar to an old stock 45 auto, ball ammo only.
The grip is small and the slide is easier to operate, but I don't think it is that much easier.
IMHO I wouldn't walk down this road.
I stand by my previous suggestion cuz you can get plenty local help with a 1911.
Let me know if you want to try my idea. But it will cost you 1 plate lunch.
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Haha, is a 1911 in .22LR even worse blasphemy?
:D
http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/family.asp?webflag_=028B&catalog_=B (http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/family.asp?webflag_=028B&catalog_=B)
Anyway it will have to be in 9mm. I do not want my wife to be confused with .45ACP, .40S&W and 9mm in an emergency. 9mm is the only handgun ammo I have for that exact reason.
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Seriously bro, if you don't think your wife can tell the difference between a 45 and a 9mm maybe you should be exploring alternative methods of self defense.
Especially since there seems to be a fundamental issue with hand strength. It sounds like a self defense firearm of any kind is not the way to go.
How about a big can of pepper spray?
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OK thanks guys for all the inputs. They are helpful. I didn't realize the HP was such a collectible premium. Probably won't go that route.
Spray is not practical. In fact I have carried and tested sprays (even the large ones for bears) and they can be more of a liability than an asset depending on where you are (indoors or outdoors), the wind, who you are with, can you evade after spraying, and the tolerance of the attacker against the chemical effect (might not be effective if the guy is crazed).
My wife can still shoot and use a firearm, except that it is not 100% easy for her and I am concerned about a crisis situation. She loads and racks the Glock at the range by herself most of the time, but her "preferred" choice is for me to rack the slide for her. We have seen a few instances of FTF and I told her not to limp wrist the gun and it is better now.
She found it IMPOSSIBLE to pull DA on the Beretta 92. And impossible to even cock it. So, Beretta is a non-starter for her which is OK, as it is only a backup gun (until I find someone who can do a reliable and credible trigger job on the stock 92 here on Oahu).
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I realize I'm pretty late to this thread but just encountered a similar issue with my wife & our mutual friend. Both are rather petit, my wife does workout a bit and so does our friend but both had issues racking various handguns as well as limp wrists that affected cycling. A good friends wife came down to the range yesterday to help the two girls out, she's a former mainland PD officer & instructor. She ran both girls through some basic drills, corrected so poor technique, and showed them a few new ones. By the end of the day both were able to consistently functions/operate a range of handguns including Glock 19, 22, & 21 (the grip size was a tad to large with the 21) as well as a tricked out 1911. The Glock 19 seemed to be the favorite. So long story short, maybe some training and proper technique will help with you already own? :thumbsup:
Side note: My wife REALLY enjoyed the experience and that will certainly be a benefit when it comes to adding a few handguns to my collection ;)
Boomah :shaka:
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Thanks man. So, with the training, did your wife change from the finger grip on the slide, to more of a palm grip, or did that not need to change?
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just came across this thread. For the Glock anyway, Glock Store sells a Slide Pull Charging Handle. It is made for people, like your wife, who have difficulty racking the slide. Maybe it may help her.
Slide Pull Charging Handle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijTWePA4P9s#ws)
http://www.glockstore.com/slide-pull-charging-handle (http://www.glockstore.com/slide-pull-charging-handle)
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Thanks; I remember seeing that before but forgot about it. A possible option.
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Howzit, sorry for the delayed reply...
My wife still uses the fingers on slide method on all but the Glock 21. Our friend changed to the palm method as well as changed her body position and grip for a bit more leverage. She basically had the firearm closer in while standing perpendicular to the firing line (maintaining muzzle down range at all times). Both girls ended up using the straight thumb "push & pull" grip with no cycling issues & pretty decent accuracy, more importantly they both REALLY enjoyed the experience and want to continue shooting handguns (my wife already does quite well with long guns).
HTH a little, Ahui hou :shaka:
Boomah
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:shaka:
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revolver :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Colt Python .357?