2aHawaii
General Topics => General Discussion => Topic started by: passivekinetic on July 20, 2013, 08:44:24 PM
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I am right handed. I found that (dry firing) instead of the thumbs PARALLEL to each other, if my dominant hand thumb is over the other thumb, my trigger press is more straight back. The parallels way, my trigger press tends to move the gun off a bit near the end of the press.
The thumbs crossed are on the left side of the pistol (not the back where the slide comes!).
Is this OK form?
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ok sounds good
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Agree with the above, comfortable is usually good. However, does that thumbs crossed grip afford you the same recoil management as thumbs forward? For me, thumbs forward allows me to turn my support hand grip further forward which in turn gives me better recoil control, which in turn helps my second shot. I need all the help I can get.
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I have crossed by weak hand thumb over my strong hand thumb since I remember. I know that parallel is supposed to be better, but I haven't been able to make the subconscious change.
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Your the shooter, you choose my friend! :shaka:
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For a semi-auto, whatever works for you, works for you. If you switch to revolver, your method will handicap you. What you'll want there is for the support hand's thumb to have free access to the hammer. Having the dominant thumb pinning the support thumb to the gun will cost you time if you are firing single-action or if you need to decock.
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Agree with the above, comfortable is usually good. However, does that thumbs crossed grip afford you the same recoil management as thumbs forward? For me, thumbs forward allows me to turn my support hand grip further forward which in turn gives me better recoil control, which in turn helps my second shot. I need all the help I can get.
thumbs are forward, but crossed.
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For a semi-auto, whatever works for you, works for you. If you switch to revolver, your method will handicap you. What you'll want there is for the support hand's thumb to have free access to the hammer. Having the dominant thumb pinning the support thumb to the gun will cost you time if you are firing single-action or if you need to decock.
I see. Didn't realize that for revolvers. Yes I am shooting Glock mainly.
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Speaking of revolvers, make sure NOT to do a revolver hold (thumb on other thumb across other side) on a semi auto.
Keep your thumb out of the way of the slide or else, owie thumb!
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One thing the thumbs parallel will allow you to do is get your grip higher on the gun and reduce the amount of offset between your grip and the bore axis, which will help reduce muzzle flip and allow you get back on target quicker.
Try the drill where you place and spent casing on the front sight and dry fire and break the shot without the casing falling off.
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thumbs are forward, but crossed.
Got it now, sorry 'bout that, automatically assumed was thumbs crossed revolver type grip. I get it, so support wrist is cammed, thumbs are forward, you're just crossing the thumbs in that grip. Heck, if it works, why not? I like the thumbs forward parallel as it helps me get a better grip with my support hand, but the only way to know is to try different things. My 1911 is the oddball of my handguns, feels thicker than my 2011 or M&Ps, so I find myself having to turn my strong hand grip when shooting it. Might have to try that and see if it makes a difference.
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Crossed thumbs generally does not distribute grip pressure evenly, nor does it really allow you to get as much skin to frame as possible. It's kind of a hold over from the revolver days. Mechanically speaking, the other methods are more sound; it's a matter of physics, so it's not really something to argue.
Now, the real questions:
Can you shoot good that way? Well, maybe. Some people can shoot in all kinds of way and hit the bullseye all day long.
Do you currently shoot like shit when trying to stay on target? Well then maybe changing your grip would be more beneficial.
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I guess I could do a quick youtube video on this for you if that would help?
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I am a right handed 1911 shooter.
My preference is left thumb holding down right thumb because:
1- My right hand is not extremely strong so my grip feels more secure like that.
2- Supposedly prevents accidentally engaging the extended thumb safety.
I don't recall ever having that happen, but I've seen it happen to others.
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I have to report on results later. I only just started observing my finger travel in dry firing and realize that at the last part of travel, my right hand seems to move the gun to the right side, as the finger comes back the last part (pulls to the right).
But putting the right thumb over, seems to alleviate this final movement.
I remember I have shot at the range in this way before, but then later just used parallel thumbs. I do not remember now which way was better. The crossed thumbs MIGHT have been more accurate, which might have been why I used it before, but then learned that it was not the best way so used parallels.
Still just a theoretical observation right now.
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If your muzzle or sights are moving at the end of the trigger stroke you don't have the proper trigger reach on the pistol and an adjustment in your grip or finger placement on the trigger would be ideal. As for rolling your primary shooting hands thumb outbound, away from the slide over your support hand thumb, this is not too much of an issue and is often a common fix for the thumbs forward grip where the shooters thumbs may be interfering with the controls on the pistol. This is common for an aggressive and high thumbs forward grip on say a Sig Sauer or for the Glock with the extended slide stop. I will note that what I am describing is NOT the same thing as a "crossed" or "tucked" thumb grip that is common on a revolver grip.
I will also mention that there are indeed better techniques out there that will produce better results depending on your type or style of shooting. Just because one technique might work better for you than another, the old "Use what works for you" may not always be the best. Proper training or instruction can help remedy much, shy of an actual physical limitation.
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Remember not to place your thumb or anything valuable near the cylinder gap
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Remember not to place your thumb or anything valuable near the cylinder gap
Yup, always knew that and told my friends with revolvers.
Never saw such a graphic explanation though! :-D
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Remember not to place your thumb or anything valuable near the cylinder gap
The hell kind of grip is that? Shes not even on the grip with the other hand lol
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If your muzzle or sights are moving at the end of the trigger stroke you don't have the proper trigger reach on the pistol and an adjustment in your grip or finger placement on the trigger would be ideal. As for rolling your primary shooting hands thumb outbound, away from the slide over your support hand thumb, this is not too much of an issue and is often a common fix for the thumbs forward grip where the shooters thumbs may be interfering with the controls on the pistol. This is common for an aggressive and high thumbs forward grip on say a Sig Sauer or for the Glock with the extended slide stop. I will note that what I am describing is NOT the same thing as a "crossed" or "tucked" thumb grip that is common on a revolver grip.
I will also mention that there are indeed better techniques out there that will produce better results depending on your type or style of shooting. Just because one technique might work better for you than another, the old "Use what works for you" may not always be the best. Proper training or instruction can help remedy much, shy of an actual physical limitation.
Surf can correct me, but I believe this is what he is talking about if anyone was confused:
Standard “high on the frame” “thumbs forward” or, insert tacticool grip name here _____________ :
(http://www.hawaiidefensefoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/2013-07-21-17.25.10-e1374464476150.jpg)
Notice the thumb and hands are right along and touching the frame, making plenty of skin to frame contact here. The basic jist is I'm going to get as high up on the slide to help reduce some of the recoil and lever action that the gun has.
Thumb slightly outbound, just off Sig Controls.
(http://www.hawaiidefensefoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/2013-07-21-17.24.10-e1374464397303.jpg)
This is kind of the same concept of the standard grip, but in order for me to have consistent function of the controls I need to get my thumb off of them.
Thumb further outbound off controls and onto joint of back thumb.
(http://www.hawaiidefensefoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/2013-07-21-17.24.38-e1374464323914.jpg)
Same as above but slightly exaggerated.
Little more "oldskool" locking thumbs on each other.
(http://www.hawaiidefensefoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/2013-07-21-17.28.56-e1374464599990.jpg)
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Surf can correct me, but I believe this is what he is talking about if anyone was confused:
I used to have a lot of video's out there, some covering this topic, but these pictures describe it well. Rolling the thumb outbound is a common fix for certain weapons like the Sig. Something we teach to guys in our unit since we run Sigs (for a little while longer anyway). The more aggressive the shooter gets with the thumbs forward grip, the more pronounced some issues can be with certain weapons. All in all, the thumbs forward, stacked thumbs, modern combat grip, etc, etc, is an extremely effective grip for many shooting styles.
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Speaking of revolvers, make sure NOT to do a revolver hold (thumb on other thumb across other side) on a semi auto.
Keep your thumb out of the way of the slide or else, owie thumb!
Remember not to place your thumb or anything valuable near the cylinder gap
Very very very good advice guys. I've been on the silhouette side at Kokohead before and have seen people doing this. I've either corrected them myself, advised the RSO, or the RSO caught them himself. It happens a lot with the newer shooters.