Interesting defense on .22 for defense.   

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/06/foghorn/ask-foghorn-22l-for-self-defense/

Let the games begin !

 

Correction.
Subject line should have read  " Is .22lr The Best for Self Defense ?"
I have corrected all my posts to reflect such.
Apologies 

i'm sure this has been covered many times

with my un-scientific comparison:
22LR is better than nothing, better than a knife at distances longer than your arm
better than a 9mm, 40, 45, or 44?  thats what the link says.
but my wrist tells me a 22 is almost like shooting a pellet gun
whereas my wrist tells me a 45 or 44 magnum seems like it would hurt a whole hell of a lot more than a 22
i'm sure the FBI and police do their own studies and select bigger calibers for a good reason.

i'm sure this has been covered many times

with my un-scientific comparison:
22LR is better than nothing, better than a knife at distances longer than your arm
better than a 9mm, 40, 45, or 44?  thats what the link says.
but my wrist tells me a 22 is almost like shooting a pellet gun
whereas my wrist tells me a 45 or 44 magnum seems like it would hurt a whole hell of a lot more than a 22
i'm sure the FBI and police do their own studies and select bigger calibers for a good reason.

Morning Stang.
  I  am neither supporting nor defending the article, merely sharing actual scientific study to fire up an age old argument. 
Actually, I thought the articles were quite enlightening.
Remember, they were written to provide data about "stopping power" aka incapaciatation or submissivenouss,  not termination, though fatalities per cal are noted.

The link says.better than a 9mm, 40, 45, or 44?    
     If you read the initial article by Greg Ellifritz @ BFA
http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866
you'll see the support for larger calibers by  FBI and police by his statement " majority of these shootings did NOT involve shooting through intermediate barriers, cover or heavy clothing. If you anticipate having to do this in your life (i.e. you are a police officer and may have to shoot someone in a car), again, I would lean towards the larger or more powerful rounds."
And  "If you want to be prepared to deal with someone who won't give up so easily, or you want to be able to have good performance even after shooting through an intermediate barrier, I would skip carrying the "mouse gun" .22s, .25s and .32s."

He also states...
" Is a .22 a good self defense round? According to the numbers, it looks to be among the best in terms of stopping the threat. Add in the fact that it’s lightweight, low recoil and uses firearms that are ridiculously easy to conceal and you can see where a .22 caliber firearm for concealed carry might be a winner.

    Some emphasis was that shot placement (all data was based on head /torso shots) had more to do with "stopping power" than caliber size  but " In a certain (fairly high) percentage of shootings, people stop their aggressive actions after being hit with one round regardless of caliber or shot placement. These people are likely NOT physically incapacitated by the bullet. They just don't want to be shot anymore and give up !"  and "in the majority of shootings, the person shot merely gives up without being truly incapacitated by the bullet".
                                                                                                                                         
"Stopping power"  vs  the so called "one stop shot" or target termination.

this is a moot point for Hawaii, you can't carry handguns so no caliber is the best for self defense in Hawaii!

this is a moot point for Hawaii, you can't carry handguns so no caliber is the best for self defense in Hawaii!

Au contraire my dear sliver.
The topic is "why .22 is a good sd/hd round" and has naught to do necessarily with CCW/OCW.
S/D works where ever I am legal to carry, be it  my back yard or work place / job site (when authorized to do so of course).
H/D is pretty self explanatory and we do defend it ! 
                                                                                             

While the round might be "ok" - the handguns for it suck ass and are unreliable - Period.

   I have no dog in this fight and personally would not consider .22 fro SD/HD.
I use it with a conversion to practice drills to save on the cost of 9mm.
I bring post and link to point as there is nice reference and stats for ALL ammo.   

  Not sure if the .22 firearm is the problem as I find more issues with the caliber round itself.
Read the posts and you find that the quality rating of different brands of .22 ammo is based upon failure to feed / fire / eject more than accuracy.

    Just stating the facts Ma'm.

   Reiterating my correction.... 
Subject line should have read  " Is .22lr The Best for Self Defense ?"

Au contraire my dear sliver.
The topic is "why .22 is a good sd/hd round" and has naught to do necessarily with CCW/OCW.
S/D works where ever I am legal to carry, be it  my back yard or work place / job site (when authorized to do so of course).
H/D is pretty self explanatory and we do defend it ! 
                                                                                             

make sure you conceal carry at home, if someone sees you with a gun even in your own yard and calls the cops, your going to be in a world of hurt!

While the round might be "ok" - the handguns for it suck ass and are unreliable - Period.

most semiauto handguns for .22lr are some what unreliable unless you got a revolver.  my NAA mini revolver=awesome and I can pop it in my mouth to conceal carry it if need be. 

My walther P22 as well as M&P22 have been fairly reliable to be honest.  Neither has had a failure yet, perhaps I'm lucky or am just not shooting enough but it eats everything just fine.

Yeah personally I would stick to a .22 revolver if it was a SD weapon

Interesting defense on .22 for defense.   

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/06/foghorn/ask-foghorn-22l-for-self-defense/

Let the games begin !

 

Correction.
Subject line should have read  " Is .22lr The Best for Self Defense ?"
I have corrected all my posts to reflect such.
Apologies 

Another thread with the same discussion:

I've been thinking of having 22lr as home defense guns. Low recoil, low noise easy manuerverability makes it seem like a good choice. Actually low noise is my biggest concern since we can't have suppressors here. I don't want go deaf trying to defend  my life

https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=9994.100

Not this shit again.


If 22lr was the best SD/HD/AP round ever created, then why isn't 1 single organization, military force, law enforcement agency, armed security company or any other armed company actively carrying them as a primary weapon.


I'll tell you why, cause they're not the best choice for anything other than plinking and varminting.

 

Sliver and BM, yes I agree. The most reliable.22 I've ever dealt with was also a revolver.
I will not go into Sliver placing a loaded gun in his mouth.

DJ@T,  apparently I did not search deep enough before posting this topic. The post you cite (and apparently have read) is also quoting Foghorn yet seems to vary slightly (not word verbatum to my reference).

King K, my post link does not claim  "22lr was the best SD/HD/AP round ever created", it merely displays the variant capabilities of most firearm standard projectiles and how the lowly .22 stands in that study.
Plinking and varminting may be what most folks utilze .22 for, but we have been benefited by it's use with a conversion to practice drills with our primary's (practice, practice, practice) and save on the cost of 9mm.

Again...
Subject is " Is .22lr The Best for Self Defense ?" in which the information provided includes "there is nice reference and stats for ALL ammo."

I recommend perusing the actual link(s) and interesting data.

"IN ORBE TERRUM NON VISI"

Not this shit again.


If 22lr was the best SD/HD/AP round ever created, then why isn't 1 single organization, military force, law enforcement agency, armed security company or any other armed company actively carrying them as a primary weapon.


I'll tell you why, cause they're not the best choice for anything other than plinking and varminting.

 

I do think it would be interesting to see some of the new rimefire cartridges though... many of those things are incredibly fasssst.   

Show me a .22 pistol that runs as reliably as my Glock 9MM and .45ACP, and I will concede the argument -- that a .22 pistol is a good self defense weapon.

But when I have to unjam, eject, and rechamber a .22 many more times than with other pistols, I'd have to argue reliability trumps all other points.

Yes, 22 lr "can" be lethal and it has "proven" to be effective at ending lives of livestock, varmints, and even 2 legged predators.  The key consideration is time in which the threat is stopped.  Yes, breaking the attacker's will to continue to be aggressive is a key, but it would be better if you could convince him otherwise through incapacitation. 

I didn't read the article that closely, but one key statistic that it brought up is the number of occurences where the attacker wasn't incapacitated.

Again, yes 22 lr can be lethal, but it it typically more of a long delay timer than a switch.  I want the attack stopped ASAP, not eventually. 

I recall reading somewhere that damage from 22 lr shots can often be very difficult to treat as the bullet will meander upon entry and that makes it very difficult to detect and treat the wound tract.  If that tract intersects or nicks something vital, you've got trouble.  However, that may no be until hours later.  So no, I do not view 22 lr as an effective HD/SD choice of ammunition when there are other choices available.  Sure, if that's all I got, it's what I'm using, but wouldn't be my first choice.

Like anything, need to take observations, statistics and the like in context.  Stats can often be manipulated or highlighted to support different sides of the arguement. 

He also states...
" Is a .22 a good self defense round? According to the numbers, it looks to be among the best in terms of stopping the threat. Add in the fact that it’s lightweight, low recoil and uses firearms that are ridiculously easy to conceal and you can see where a .22 caliber firearm for concealed carry might be a winner.

    Some emphasis was that shot placement (all data was based on head /torso shots) had more to do with "stopping power" than caliber size  but " In a certain (fairly high) percentage of shootings, people stop their aggressive actions after being hit with one round regardless of caliber or shot placement. These people are likely NOT physically incapacitated by the bullet. They just don't want to be shot anymore and give up !"  and "in the majority of shootings, the person shot merely gives up without being truly incapacitated by the bullet".
                                                                                                                                         
"Stopping power"  vs  the so called "one stop shot" or target termination.

better shot placement with a higher caliber comes with practice.
I can shoot my 357 just as accurate if not more accurate than my 22's, and my accuracy with my 45 is getting better the more i shoot it.

if you cant shoot your 45, 40, or 9mm accurately, the answer is not to switch to a 22,
the answer is to practice more shooting your HD/SD gun.

when defending my life and the lives of my family, I want a gun that does the job the best,
not one that merely is good enough
to me, stopping a deadly threat means stopping it with deadly force with 1 shot or very little shots, not many shots like it will take with a 22

and you can argue shot placement
but again, shot placement comes with practice
the same shot placement with a deadlier caliber, is a more effective gun for HD/SD.