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Indianapolis firearms instructor foils BK robbery (Read 4349 times)

Jl808

Indianapolis firearms instructor foils BK robbery
« on: October 06, 2016, 07:03:36 AM »
http://www.wthr.com/article/teen-robbery-suspects-arrested-after-gunfight-at-west-indianapolis-burger-king

http://fox59.com/2016/10/05/teens-suspected-of-robbing-area-businesses-taken-into-custody-after-shootout-at-west-side-burger-king/

Three armed teens attempt an armed robbery at an Indianapolis Burger King. A CCW firearms instructor draws his gun and tells them to freeze. A gunfight ensues without anyone getting hit and the 3 robbers fleeing.

Police find the robbers' vehicle and arrest 5 (2 adults and 3 teens).
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I think, therefore I am armed.
NRA Life Patron member, HRA Life member, HiFiCo Life Member, HDF member

The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved.

zippz

Re: Indianapolis firearms instructor foils BK robbery
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2016, 07:56:21 AM »
Good work on the initiative of the armed citizen.  However I would have done it differently.  I would have stayed around watching what is going on and calling 911.  I wouldn't have presented my gun, unless there was an imminent threat they were going to shoot someone, as it was 3 against 1, and a shootout would present a bigger danger to the employees and customers.  I'd rather let them get their money and leave, then have the police handle the incident.
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Jl808

Re: Indianapolis firearms instructor foils BK robbery
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2016, 08:07:47 AM »
<puts on monday morning quarterback hat>

Yeah, the odds of 1 vs 2 is already bad, worse 1 vs 3.  Announcing "freeze" took away his concealed advantage of the element of surprise. 

The female LEO interview was interesting... about not firing to protect material but only to fire when in imminent danger of death to oneself or to someone else.

If there was imminent threat to someone's life, the element of surprise + el presidente would have been a better armed response.
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I think, therefore I am armed.
NRA Life Patron member, HRA Life member, HiFiCo Life Member, HDF member

The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved.

Surf

Re: Indianapolis firearms instructor foils BK robbery
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2016, 08:23:27 AM »
I hate to rely on a news story for "facts", or Monday morning anything, but if the below account from the story is remotely true then than hopefully this guy is not teaching any type of tactics especially related to CCW and citizens. 

Quote
According to officers, a firearms instructor had just left the restaurant with his food saw the suspects enter the business. The customer followed them back into the restaurant with his own weapon, which he is licensed to carry.

The customer confronted the teens and told them to drop their weapons, but they turned the weapons on him instead. The man defended himself and a shootout began.

Glad it worked out, but I think this is an example of what not to do.
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oldfart

Re: Indianapolis firearms instructor foils BK robbery
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2016, 09:20:40 AM »
Quote from: Jl808 on October 06, 2016, 07:03:36 AM
http://www.wthr.com/article/teen-robbery-suspects-arrested-after-gunfight-at-west-indianapolis-burger-king

http://fox59.com/2016/10/05/teens-suspected-of-robbing-area-businesses-taken-into-custody-after-shootout-at-west-side-burger-king/

Three armed teens attempt an armed robbery at an Indianapolis Burger King. A CCW firearms instructor draws his gun and tells them to freeze. A gunfight ensues without anyone getting hit and the 3 robbers fleeing.

Police find the robbers' vehicle and arrest 5 (2 adults and 3 teens).
...
I would be embarrassed to say I was instructor if I drew my pistol and did not hit my target.
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zippz

Re: Indianapolis firearms instructor foils BK robbery
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2016, 10:26:42 AM »
Good to analyze these CCW events so you are better prepared if it should happen to you.  You only have seconds to think so you should know what to do before it happens.
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drck1000

Re: Indianapolis firearms instructor foils BK robbery
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2016, 12:27:00 PM »
Quote from: oldfart on October 06, 2016, 09:20:40 AM

http://www.wthr.com/article/teen-robbery-suspects-arrested-after-gunfight-at-west-indianapolis-burger-king

http://fox59.com/2016/10/05/teens-suspected-of-robbing-area-businesses-taken-into-custody-after-shootout-at-west-side-burger-king/

Three armed teens attempt an armed robbery at an Indianapolis Burger King. A CCW firearms instructor draws his gun and tells them to freeze. A gunfight ensues without anyone getting hit and the 3 robbers fleeing.

Police find the robbers' vehicle and arrest 5 (2 adults and 3 teens).
...
I would be embarrassed to say I was instructor if I drew my pistol and did not hit my target.

Well, not all instructors are trained equally.   ;D

Someone on another forum posted an article recently and something about "how much ammunition do you need for CCW" and it turned to "how many misses are you going to allot for yourself" or something like that.  Decent discussion ensued.  Anyways, in this case, I wonder how many rounds were fired.  Many times, I think the media sensationalizes things and wonder if a gunfight/shootout was really one round from each side, or something like that. 
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All_rice

Re: Indianapolis firearms instructor foils BK robbery
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2016, 12:14:03 PM »
Quote from: zippz on October 06, 2016, 07:56:21 AM
Good work on the initiative of the armed citizen.  However I would have done it differently.  I would have stayed around watching what is going on and calling 911.  I wouldn't have presented my gun, unless there was an imminent threat they were going to shoot someone, as it was 3 against 1, and a shootout would present a bigger danger to the employees and customers.  I'd rather let them get their money and leave, then have the police handle the incident.

How would you make the judgement that they're going to shoot someone If their guns are already drawn and pointed towards someone
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Land of the free, because of the Brave!

zippz

Re: Indianapolis firearms instructor foils BK robbery
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2016, 09:22:08 AM »
Quote from: All_rice on October 09, 2016, 12:14:03 PM
How would you make the judgement that they're going to shoot someone If their guns are already drawn and pointed towards someone

It would be a very difficult judgement and my stress level would be astronomical having to make that decision.  My judgement would be based on the fact that the vast majority of armed robberies result in no shots fired.  The businesses are usually complacent and hand over what the robbers want and no one gets hurt.  The goal for the robbery is to just get what they want and get away clean.  Most robbers don't really want to injure other people and don't want to get injured themselves.  If the robbers did start shooting at people, the shots would be heard and the area would be swarmed with police.  Robber's are dumb, but they are smart enough to know that it's not an ideal scenario for self preservation.  Now it's possible that the robber could have shot someone while you waited instead of acting, but that is very highly unlikely.  To me the odds of that happening doesn't justify the higher odds of a shootout taking place and having innocents get hurt in the crossfire.

What I would do is observe if there is anything unusual about the robbery, like the business refuses to handover the stuff and the robbers get very agitated.  Or maybe it's not a robbery after all and they don't demand anything..like a terrorist act.

Just going off the facts in the article, I feel this case was more the protection of property and stopping bad guys versus the protection of life.  If this resulted in killing the 3 bad guys while losing 1 innocent life that shouldn't have been lost then it is still a bad shoot.  You can win a battle and still lose the war.


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