What about on someone else's property where you are welcome and have the owner's permission to carry (open or concealed)? Does it have to be your "place of sojourn", or can you return home for the night without being subject to arrest? How would the cops know, prior to your departure that it was not your "place of sojourn"? If you leave before midnight, or exactly when, does it or does it not become your "place of sojourn"? Why should "place of sojourn" be a legal "place to keep" (NOT bear) arms? And not anywhere else you are?

Carrying even with permission on someone else's property is illegal, unless it's your place of sojourn.  So if you ask your friend, "can I sleep over", then yes it's legal.  But you better be sure if PD does question you for any reason, that your friend tells them that you're spending the night.  Even bringing your guns to your friends home just to show is also illegal unless you're spending the night.  Example: "Hey bro, I wanna buy an AR, can you bring yours to my house so I can check it out?". 

You can however lend a long rifle or shotgun to anyone who is qualified to do so for 15 days.  So who's to say that you're not letting your friend borrow the long gun/shotgun.  But you cannot let anyone borrow your handgun.

As a rule of thumb, I don't like to "test" PD on what I can and cannot do.  Because in the end, it will be me who pays financially to prove that what I did in question is legal.  You're welcome to do so and set president for the rest of us.  And if you start a go fund me, I'll chip in a little.  PD are human and not lawyers/judges.  So depending on who questions you is how it will end up.  So if you left your friends home at 1am and going home and get pulled over.  If the cop is having a bad day or just a dick, then you will have to justify your gun being in the car.  But if the cop is cool then he may tell you to just go home.  But we do not have a law where you have to notify PD that there is a gun in the car, that's why you should keep the enclosed container in the trunk.

Why should we have a places to keep law?  I think their stupid, but the law is the law, even if unjust.  I wasn't in the culture when they created this law, so I can't say how we or if we even did fight it.

Carrying even with permission on someone else's property is illegal, unless it's your place of sojourn.  So if you ask your friend, "can I sleep over", then yes it's legal.  But you better be sure if PD does question you for any reason, that your friend tells them that you're spending the night.  Even bringing your guns to your friends home just to show is also illegal unless you're spending the night.  Example: "Hey bro, I wanna buy an AR, can you bring yours to my house so I can check it out?". 

You can however lend a long rifle or shotgun to anyone who is qualified to do so for 15 days.  So who's to say that you're not letting your friend borrow the long gun/shotgun.  But you cannot let anyone borrow your handgun.

As a rule of thumb, I don't like to "test" PD on what I can and cannot do.  Because in the end, it will be me who pays financially to prove that what I did in question is legal.  You're welcome to do so and set president for the rest of us.  And if you start a go fund me, I'll chip in a little.  PD are human and not lawyers/judges.  So depending on who questions you is how it will end up.  So if you left your friends home at 1am and going home and get pulled over.  If the cop is having a bad day or just a dick, then you will have to justify your gun being in the car.  But if the cop is cool then he may tell you to just go home.  But we do not have a law where you have to notify PD that there is a gun in the car, that's why you should keep the enclosed container in the trunk.

Why should we have a places to keep law?  I think their stupid, but the law is the law, even if unjust.  I wasn't in the culture when they created this law, so I can't say how we or if we even did fight it.

so·journ
ˈsōjərn/Submit
formal
noun
1.
a temporary stay.
"her sojourn in Rome"
synonyms:   stay, visit, stop, stopover; vacation
"a sojourn in France"
verb
1.
stay somewhere temporarily.
"she had sojourned once in Egypt"
synonyms:   stay, live, put up, stop (over), lodge, room, board; vacation
"they sojourned in the monastery"

There is no "sleep over" requirement.  Private property is private property. 

so·journ
ˈsōjərn/Submit
formal
noun
1.
a temporary stay.
"her sojourn in Rome"
synonyms:   stay, visit, stop, stopover; vacation
"a sojourn in France"
verb
1.
stay somewhere temporarily.
"she had sojourned once in Egypt"
synonyms:   stay, live, put up, stop (over), lodge, room, board; vacation
"they sojourned in the monastery"

There is no "sleep over" requirement.  Private property is private property.

To me, all the above sounds differently from "hanging out at a friends home/bbq".  But I'm not a lawyer.  But who's to say that you were going to "sleep over", but changed your mind.  So as long as your friend can confirm "yeah X was going to spend the night", then it's all G.  Compared to "I sojourned at Starbucks to grab a coffee".

Not trying to be argumentative, but like I said above, you can test the waters and let us know.

To me, all the above sounds differently from "hanging out at a friends home/bbq".  But I'm not a lawyer.  But who's to say that you were going to "sleep over", but changed your mind.  So as long as your friend can confirm "yeah X was going to spend the night", then it's all G.  Compared to "I sojourned at Starbucks to grab a coffee".

Not trying to be argumentative, but like I said above, you can test the waters and let us know.

No.....  Your example is a non sequitur.  There are specific laws that prevent carrying a firearm, open or concealed, at your local Starbucks.  Don't equate public spaces with privately owned property.  Stop adding words and scenarios to the law.

can't use technology

No.....  Your example is a non sequitur.  There are specific laws that prevent carrying a firearm, open or concealed, at your local Starbucks.  Don't equate public spaces with privately owned property.  Stop adding words and scenarios to the law.

Ok

==========
 common sense tells me this is what it is, and this is how I choose to define my residence.

The county of Hawaii does not agree with your "common sense". They clearly stated in Young v. Hawaii  during oral arguments that the right to bear arms is limited strictly to inside the home. Once you acknowledge that a person has a right to bear even in the curtilage of their home (one step outside their door, or more) you get into a whole pile of "complications", some of which I mentioned above. I'm (and know you are too) with Justice Thomas:: "I find it extremely improbable that the Framers understood the Second Amendment to protect little more than carrying a gun from the bedroom to the kitchen." [dissent to denial of cert in Peruta]

To me, all the above sounds differently from "hanging out at a friends home/bbq".  But I'm not a lawyer.  But who's to say that you were going to "sleep over", but changed your mind.  So as long as your friend can confirm "yeah X was going to spend the night", then it's all G.  Compared to "I sojourned at Starbucks to grab a coffee".

Not trying to be argumentative, but like I said above, you can test the waters and let us know.

Based on your definitions of "sojourn", the airport would be off limits if you arrive and fly to another island/the mainland all in the same day.  Why are only commercial travel-related locations considered places of sojourn?

Based on your definitions of "sojourn", the airport would be off limits if you arrive and fly to another island/the mainland all in the same day.  Why are only commercial travel-related locations considered places of sojourn?

The difference is when you're at the airport, you're on your way to your new place of sojourn or returning to your residence from your trip.  Unless you're at the airport just to eat or hang out, then that's the difference.

(a)  Except as provided in section 134-5, all firearms shall be confined to the possessor's place of business, residence, or sojourn; provided that it shall be lawful to carry unloaded firearms in an enclosed container from the place of purchase to the purchaser's place of business, residence, or sojourn, or between these places upon change of place of business, residence, or sojourn, or between these places and the following:

     (1)  A place of repair;

     (2)  A target range;

     (3)  A licensed dealer's place of business;

     (4)  An organized, scheduled firearms show or exhibit;

     (5)  A place of formal hunter or firearm use training or instruction; or

     (6)  A police station.

"Hey, Bob, I'm going to bring my AR over to your house at 3pm and exhibit it for you." Organized, scheduled, legal.

The county of Hawaii does not agree with your "common sense". They clearly stated in Young v. Hawaii  during oral arguments that the right to bear arms is limited strictly to inside the home. Once you acknowledge that a person has a right to bear even in the curtilage of their home (one step outside their door, or more) you get into a whole pile of "complications", some of which I mentioned above. I'm (and know you are too) with Justice Thomas:: "I find it extremely improbable that the Framers understood the Second Amendment to protect little more than carrying a gun from the bedroom to the kitchen." [dissent to denial of cert in Peruta]

....
County of Hawaii can kiss my fat a....

When I write my residential address, I don't write "that wooden structure situated at tax map key 0000-1432-0437......"

....
County of Hawaii can kiss my fat a....

When I write my residential address, I don't write "that wooden structure situated at tax map key 0000-1432-0437......"

That 2-digit prefix in Hawaii house numbers is actually taken from the tax map key.

My address is 95-xxx, and my tax map key is 9502-xxxx-0000.

FYI.

The difference is when you're at the airport, you're on your way to your new place of sojourn or returning to your residence from your trip.  Unless you're at the airport just to eat or hang out, then that's the difference.

According to the NY Supreme Court (in 1890) Wittenbrock v. Mabius, 10 N.Y.S. 733 : 

Sojourn refers to a temporary stay by a person who is not just passing through a place but is also a permanent resident.
In other words, the definition of sojourn is a temporary residence, as that of a traveler in a foreign land, a sojourner; to have a temporary abode;
to live as not at home.

If you accept that definition as legal precedence, then the airport and intermediate hotel rooms are not considered places of sojourn.  You can't be "passing through", but rather making that your "temporary residence" away from home. 

Hawaii allows for intermediate places -- places between changes in your "places to keep".  That's why the airport, a hotel room, or a stay at a friend's house en route to your home or place of sojourn are allowed. 

"Between" is pretty broad, since it doesn't include verbiage like "directly" or "nonstop".  If your friend lives BETWEEN the range and your residence, and you intend to return home after being at the range, then the law permits you to be at your friend's home for an unspecified length of time.

When laws are ambiguous, the ambiguity is to be interpreted in favor of the defendant. Rule of Lenity:

http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictionary/R/RuleofLenity.aspx

The question becomes, is the wording of the statute able to meet the legal definition of "ambiguous"?  If so, "between" has more than one meaning. 

Stopping between one legal place to possess a firearm and another is legal -- like an airport -- or a friend's house.  You just can't go from home to friend and back home.

Care to share any details of the sources as to how "it has always been" your "understanding" that carrying anywhere on your property is legal? Or where you have "heard" about the "common areas" prohibition?

What about on someone else's property where you are welcome and have the owner's permission to carry (open or concealed)? Does it have to be your "place of sojourn", or can you return home for the night without being subject to arrest? How would the cops know, prior to your departure that it was not your "place of sojourn"? If you leave before midnight, or exactly when, does it or does it not become your "place of sojourn"? Why should "place of sojourn" be a legal "place to keep" (NOT bear) arms? And not anywhere else you are?

What about if I am standing at my property line (say, at the street) and I stick my hand or leg in the air across the line, without touching the ground, am I a criminal subject to arrest? What if I do step across the line by a foot?

Please supply us with your source(s) documenting the "advantages to CCW over open carry". By "sources" I mean data from the real world documenting the advantages, not theoretical articles by people spinning hypothetical "what ifs" and "coulds". Thanks.

I've got a crazy idea, how about if laws only make people into criminals when they actually harm someone, not because in some hypothetical they "might" harm someone? Otherwise to be consistent you have to ban driving cars, because those kill and injure way more people than guns every day, especially guns carried by otherwise law-abiding citizens, and thus have the potential to kill and injure people every single time every single person gets behind the wheel and enters into "the public space". Oh, sorry, I forgot. Can't do that because "gunz".

It was based on conversations as well as my understanding of the law. I cannot remember specifically who I spoke with about common areas as it was a while ago. It is however enough of a gray area in the law that I wouldn't go testing it.

As for one's own property surrounding a home, the Hawaii Revised Statutes does not specifically define residence. A reading of the gun laws does not have anything that would imply or suggest that one's property is not included in the definition of one's residence. Are you saying you disagree with my comment or are you just stirring things up?

Not sure what type of data you want. Open carry lets people know you are armed with a firearm which takes away any element of surprise. I am not sure why you need a study to tell you that.

As for your last paragraph I am not even sure why you took the time you type it. You are just preaching to the choir here.

According to the NY Supreme Court (in 1890) Wittenbrock v. Mabius, 10 N.Y.S. 733 : 

If you accept that definition as legal precedence, then the airport and intermediate hotel rooms are not considered places of sojourn.  You can't be "passing through", but rather making that your "temporary residence" away from home. 

Hawaii allows for intermediate places -- places between changes in your "places to keep".  That's why the airport, a hotel room, or a stay at a friend's house en route to your home or place of sojourn are allowed. 

"Between" is pretty broad, since it doesn't include verbiage like "directly" or "nonstop".  If your friend lives BETWEEN the range and your residence, and you intend to return home after being at the range, then the law permits you to be at your friend's home for an unspecified length of time.

When laws are ambiguous, the ambiguity is to be interpreted in favor of the defendant. Rule of Lenity:

http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictionary/R/RuleofLenity.aspx

The question becomes, is the wording of the statute able to meet the legal definition of "ambiguous"?  If so, "between" has more than one meaning. 

Stopping between one legal place to possess a firearm and another is legal -- like an airport -- or a friend's house.  You just can't go from home to friend and back home.

Well put.

"Hey, Bob, I'm going to bring my AR over to your house at 3pm and exhibit it for you." Organized, scheduled, legal.

Not to mention, I took the gun to bob's house so he can help me fix it. Legal!

Not to mention, I took the gun to bob's house so he can help me fix it. Legal!

I seriously doubt it. Unless bob has a business license to operate as a gunsmith at that address.

I seriously doubt it. Unless bob has a business license to operate as a gunsmith at that address.

notice that the law does not specify that the person needs to be a licensed gunsmith of any kind. The only mention of a license requirement is for the place of sale.