Yes, it is subjective.

I’m thinking if the bad guy has a 44 mag and I have a 9mm….I have a good chance of putting a whole 10rd mag into him before he puts 3-4 into me.

But with my luck, the BG will be Jerry Miculek…..so he will empty his revolver into me while I go “Oh shit, it’s JM…I’m a dead man”

Yes, it is subjective.

I’m thinking if the bad guy has a 44 mag and I have a 9mm….I have a good chance of putting a whole 10rd mag into him before he puts 3-4 into me.

But with my luck, the BG will be Jerry Miculek…..so he will empty his revolver into me while I go “Oh shit, it’s JM…I’m a dead man”

But with 44, it only takes 1.

History Channel had a thing on OIF, a guy unloaded his 9mm Baretta into an iraqi. The was already on the ground when this happened and he was still reaching for his AK that was next to him.  The story was about the issue with stopping power and 9mm FMJ. HP aren't allowed due to the Geneva Conventions.  Of course, sometimes the iraq's were hopped up on speed/adrenaline and stuff too.

But with 44, it only takes 1.

History Channel had a thing on OIF, a guy unloaded his 9mm Baretta into an iraqi. The was already on the ground when this happened and he was still reaching for his AK that was next to him.  The story was about the issue with stopping power and 9mm FMJ. HP aren't allowed due to the Geneva Conventions.  Of course, sometimes the iraq's were hopped up on speed/adrenaline and stuff too.

Science can measure characteristics of a type of round when it impacts flesh, bone, fur and/or clothing.  The comparisons are out there for the taking.

Unfortunately, not every situation is as controlled as a laboratory or range test.

If I had any inclination toward choosing a 9mm semi over a .44 revolver, I'd choose to have one of each.

An option for bear and other big game, and an option for everything else.  This also provides a spare in case I drop my primary weapon or it fails to go bang when required.

CMO
I’m not a sme, but unless a pistol shot destroys something vital (brain, heart, nervous system, major artery), the person will live for a while….. until they die because of blood loss (ie brain and/or other organs stop functioning due to lack of blood/oxygen)

If one shot from a 44 mag could instantly take out a person, I would think a lot of military branch/agency/dept would use the 44 mag

For the branches/agencies/depts, math gives the answer:
9mm fmj has an area of 64 square mm
44 fmj has an area of 95 square mm

A cop’s G17 carries 17+1
A 44 revolver carries 6

A cop will make 18 holes totaling an area of 1152 square mm

A civilian will make 11 holes totaling 704 square mm

A 44 revolver will make 6 holes totaling an area of 570 square mm

Semi auto 9mm’s have other major pros….fast to reload…more rounds per reload….generally lighter in weight….faster to shoot accurately

9mm pistols aren’t as sexy as 10mm, 357 and 44 but are better than 357 & 44 revolvers in providing ventilation….and only falls slightly behind 10mm

(Glock 20 is 15+1…10mm fmj has an area of 78.5mm squared….16 holes with total area of 1256mm squared)

9mm will hold up head to head against 10/357/44 (assuming you could use hi cap mags)

If limited to 10rd mags, I guess 45acp is the king of ventilation.  10+1 holes with a total area of 1122 mm squared….almost 60% more area than 10+1 9mm

But I guess tests don’t indicate that the 60% larger ventilation with 45 makes it significantly better in the real world.  9mm is used by a large percentage of branches/agencies/depts.

I should look up how much HP’s expand out for each caliber…..

Are we trying to stop the adversary or are we trying to kill them.

Are we talking all adversaries, or just man.  Or beast.  Or a caliber for all of them.  Man and Beast.

Are we saying "pak pak pak" is better than "boooooommmm"

Are we talking die by one boom or die from a thousand pak pak paks.

I say if it is man, then kill them with a thousand pak pak paks.

If bear, one booooom or maybe two.  Or threee.  By then either the bear or you will be dead.

The thread started with 44 isn’t significantly better than 9mm….and I made a side comment/joke that Alaskan guides not being aware of it

And like most on line discussions it meanders a little bit.

So the discussion now covers which caliber for both bear and human defense

I’m thinking 9 is fine for humans….and not that bad …..if it’s all you have…..as a sidearm in Alaska assuming you and your buddies are also carrying long arms (ie if you couldn’t obtain a bigger caliber handgun)

Of course, people in Alaskan bear country should carry what handgun they think works best for them….

And then there are situations like Macsac was in …..where your “friends” put you in charge of bear defense for a canoe expedition and hand you a Taurus 40sw

CMO
I’m not a sme, but unless a pistol shot destroys something vital (brain, heart, nervous system, major artery), the person will live for a while….. until they die because of blood loss (ie brain and/or other organs stop functioning due to lack of blood/oxygen)

If one shot from a 44 mag could instantly take out a person, I would think a lot of military branch/agency/dept would use the 44 mag

For the branches/agencies/depts, math gives the answer:
9mm fmj has an area of 64 square mm
44 fmj has an area of 95 square mm

A cop’s G17 carries 17+1
A 44 revolver carries 6

A cop will make 18 holes totaling an area of 1152 square mm

A civilian will make 11 holes totaling 704 square mm

A 44 revolver will make 6 holes totaling an area of 570 square mm

Semi auto 9mm’s have other major pros….fast to reload…more rounds per reload….generally lighter in weight….faster to shoot accurately

9mm pistols aren’t as sexy as 10mm, 357 and 44 but are better than 357 & 44 revolvers in providing ventilation….and only falls slightly behind 10mm

(Glock 20 is 15+1…10mm fmj has an area of 78.5mm squared….16 holes with total area of 1256mm squared)

9mm will hold up head to head against 10/357/44 (assuming you could use hi cap mags)

If limited to 10rd mags, I guess 45acp is the king of ventilation.  10+1 holes with a total area of 1122 mm squared….almost 60% more area than 10+1 9mm

But I guess tests don’t indicate that the 60% larger ventilation with 45 makes it significantly better in the real world.  9mm is used by a large percentage of branches/agencies/depts.

I should look up how much HP’s expand out for each caliber…..

Thanks for the info, I never thought about it like this before.  Of course the unknown is missed shots. Or how many you can get off in X seconds. But your info gives us a general and good mathematics of it.

1 factor on to why I bought a 1911 in 45 is beacuse of HI's 10rd pistol mag law. I can run Wilson combat mags as they have 10rd cap. This is also a reason why I feel no need to buy a 2011 because we're limited to 10rds anyways.

Practice helps

.357 Mag   

https://www.tierthreetactical.com/analyzing-1800-shootings-which-caliber-has-the-best-stopping-power/

https://www.activeresponsetraining.net/an-alternate-look-at-handgun-stopping-power

Dang….for incapacitation 357 is better than 44mag and shotguns???

And the 357 is about equal to a rifle???

I’m still grabbing an AR or shotgun first.

To be fair, it did say that the difference between commonly used handgun calibers is only about 7% (380 and up) and that practice was more important than caliber.  And they did actually mention that long arms are more effective.

It was good that they noted a lot of the incidents involved fmj/ball

Rocky
Thanks for posting the link

Shooting a pig that stand still while feeding …..from a blind …..that is bit different from accidentally meeting a charging bear

Lol!! I'm the forum member OF was mentioning ive been hunting pigs with dogs for almost 50 yrs. If you never seen how fast they are then maybe you shouldn't make assumptions. I've never shot one feeding while in a blind not my style. All the pigs I've shot as well as my family and friends have all been hauling a**.

And the .44 by far has been the most effective in the 100's of pigs we've shot thru the years. With .357, .41, 10mm mostly used I've seen a some shot with .40s not impressed at all. Bullets and they're construction do matter a lot!!

Lol!! I'm the forum member OF was mentioning ive been hunting pigs with dogs for almost 50 yrs. If you never seen how fast they are then maybe you shouldn't make assumptions. I've never shot one feeding while in a blind not my style. All the pigs I've shot as well as my family and friends have all been hauling a**.

And the .44 by far has been the most effective in the 100's of pigs we've shot thru the years. With .357, .41, 10mm mostly used I've seen a some shot with .40s not impressed at all. Bullets and they're construction do matter a lot!!

Been meaning to shoot the .41 Mag I inherited from my dad. Was one of his fave guns. I picked up a bunch of SP and JHP a while back from Kaleo Arms.

808hunta - Sorry…my bad.  OF didn’t say how his friend shot the pigs.  I assumed it was from a blind/stand. 

Hunting w/out dogs on the East side of Oahu:
I’ve attempted pig hunting with a rifle on the East side without dogs. 

It is difficult to truly stalk….a lot of vegetation on the East side….minimal clear/open area….so the only really clear areas is by the stream bed.  So if you’re not by the stream and trying to stalk…it’s more like a pig walking into you.  Even if a pig walks up on you, you can maybe hear it …but can’t really see it  cause the vegetation is couple feet high….till they enter a clear area. 

I heard people go in early and set up next to paths with clear shooting lanes

Without dogs, in a place with a lot of vegetation …..waiting by an open area seems the most efficient way.

On a side note, someone made it even easier…..they had put up a battery powered pig feeder by the stream bed

Leeward side is clearer (easier to see) but it is relatively crowded. 

I don’t even try the areas that allow dogs cause all the wise pigs are long gone and on private land or outside the hunting area.  Only the dumb ones are  around and the hunters with dogs will either get them or flush them out of the area.

My co-worker’s brother hunts alone above Pearl City.  He baits the area for a few weeks before he goes.  He shoots from a tree.  Seems like he usually shoots in the late afternoon….i guess the pigs are returning to the area at that time.  So I guess he goes in at the end of the day.   All the photos ive seen, he is getting out at night.  Trekking one alone out in the dark is no problem for him.

I tried hunting alone….never doing that again unless I’m hunting from a vehicle….and taking close shots from the road

Been meaning to shoot the .41 Mag I inherited from my dad. Was one of his fave guns. I picked up a bunch of SP and JHP a while back from Kaleo Arms.

Nice bro!! I like the .41 i think you'll love it. What make and model you have? My dad's was a S&W can't remember the model at the moment. It was super accurate and mellow recoiling. He also had a M29 .44 mag but he loved his ruger SA Blackhawk. That guy was amazing with that thing seen him make amazing shots thru the years. Wish I could shoot like him lol

808hunta - Sorry…my bad.  OF didn’t say how his friend shot the pigs.  I assumed it was from a blind/stand. 

Hunting w/out dogs on the East side of Oahu:
I’ve attempted pig hunting with a rifle on the East side without dogs. 

It is difficult to truly stalk….a lot of vegetation on the East side….minimal clear/open area….so the only really clear areas is by the stream bed.  So if you’re not by the stream and trying to stalk…it’s more like a pig walking into you.  Even if a pig walks up on you, you can maybe hear it …but can’t really see it  cause the vegetation is couple feet high….till they enter a clear area. 

I heard people go in early and set up next to paths with clear shooting lanes

Without dogs, in a place with a lot of vegetation …..waiting by an open area seems the most efficient way.

On a side note, someone made it even easier…..they had put up a battery powered pig feeder by the stream bed

Leeward side is clearer (easier to see) but it is relatively crowded. 

I don’t even try the areas that allow dogs cause all the wise pigs are long gone and on private land or outside the hunting area.  Only the dumb ones are  around and the hunters with dogs will either get them or flush them out of the area.

My co-worker’s brother hunts alone above Pearl City.  He baits the area for a few weeks before he goes.  He shoots from a tree.  Seems like he usually shoots in the late afternoon….i guess the pigs are returning to the area at that time.  So I guess he goes in at the end of the day.   All the photos ive seen, he is getting out at night.  Trekking one alone out in the dark is no problem for him.

I tried hunting alone….never doing that again unless I’m hunting from a vehicle….and taking close shots from the road

Tim all good! I was born and raised east side hunted there most my life.

I hunt that way with rifle and bow but not pistol. I try to hunt as much as possible. So hunting different styles allow me more options to hunt lol

Aloha