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new movie "the purge"- anti-nra anti-tea party? (Read 11515 times)

moosed

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Re: new movie "the purge"- anti-nra anti-tea party?
« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2013, 06:43:42 PM »
Quote from: clshade on June 09, 2013, 06:30:28 PM
No worries, moosed.

My bad for the specifics and sloppy google work... the point doesn't change much, however, does it?

Actually, it does.  When arguing an opinion, as opposed to a fact, it is difficult to overlook these types of mistakes.  The only way you can support an opinion is by demonstrating the facts on which you based your belief are reasonable and more compelling than those of an opposing view point.

When you don't take the time to really read something, but offer it as supporting evidence, it absolutely calls into question the voracity and accuracy of the rest of your arguments, as well as whether you truly understand the "facts" you are presenting.  I'm left with the impression you are simply falling prey to a bunch of sound bites taken out of context and websites about which you have no idea in terms of trustworthiness and truthfulness.

Yes, this does change the point quite a bit.  It tells us your opinion may not be as informed as you would like us to think.
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When only cops have guns, it's called a "police state".

clshade

Re: new movie "the purge"- anti-nra anti-tea party?
« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2013, 06:56:47 PM »
Quote from: moosed on June 09, 2013, 06:43:42 PM

Yes, this does change the point quite a bit.  It tells us your opinion may not be as informed as you would like us to think.

Either that or I'm trying to work at the same time I'm looking for the quotes you requested. Which is exactly what I'm doing.

Or both. I can accept that I'm not as informed about the exact quotes of the NRA leadership. For the most part I look at the reaction of the left and the center when I want to know how the left and center are feeling about something and have seen more than enough vids of Wayne, Porter and Uncle Ted to have formed the opinion without recalling the exact quotes.

So you going to address the actual point or just capitalize on my haste?

(Terry, you are a wiser man than I. Probably shouldn't have opened my mouth.)
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Kingkeoni

Re: new movie "the purge"- anti-nra anti-tea party?
« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2013, 06:57:10 PM »
 :sleeping:
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Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

moosed

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Re: new movie "the purge"- anti-nra anti-tea party?
« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2013, 07:10:35 PM »
Quote from: clshade on June 09, 2013, 06:56:47 PM
Either that or I'm trying to work at the same time I'm looking for the quotes you requested. Which is exactly what I'm doing.

Or both. I can accept that I'm not as informed about the exact quotes of the NRA leadership. For the most part I look at the reaction of the left and the center when I want to know how the left and center are feeling about something and have seen more than enough vids of Wayne, Porter and Uncle Ted to have formed the opinion without recalling the exact quotes.

So you going to address the actual point or just capitalize on my haste?

(Terry, you are a wiser man than I. Probably shouldn't have opened my mouth.)

IF you want a point-by-point debate, I also don't have time for that.  What I want to leave you with (as I need to take time for more productive endeavors now), is this:  everything you are posting about the NRA being too extreme right wing and not doing what they should do is purely opinion.  That's okay.  Everyone has that right.  What I wanted to engage in is the possibility that your characterization of the NRA is not a fact.  My opinion of the NRA, while not one of 100% admiration, is that they should be applauded as the #1 group in the nation, and in history, to not only defend gun ownership, but also responsible firearm use including safety training and beginner-to-advanced level instruction.  They have done more for the POSITIVE side of gun ownership than any other group ... obvious exceptions being law enforcement and military, but I'm talking about training ALL Americans.  These are not statements of opinion, either.  These are facts based on actual statistics compared to any other group.

In the political arena, I admit they could do better than Wayne LePierre.  But I admire him for having the conviction to go in front of the nation and defend the position that, the NRA is NOT against all gun control legislation.  They are FOR any REASONABLE legislation THAT MAKES SENSE.  To make sense, the law has to address a defined problem and implement steps that address that problem effectively.  Feel-good laws based on emotional knee-jerk reactions are very difficult to speak out against, and I think the public did get the message ... at least those not screaming "child killers" during his speeches.
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macsak

Re: new movie "the purge"- anti-nra anti-tea party?
« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2013, 07:18:50 PM »
http://2ahawaii.com/Smileys/extended/stopjack.gif


Quote from: moosed on June 09, 2013, 07:10:35 PM
IF you want a point-by-point debate, I also don't have time for that.  What I want to leave you with (as I need to take time for more productive endeavors now), is this:  everything you are posting about the NRA being too extreme right wing and not doing what they should do is purely opinion.  That's okay.  Everyone has that right.  What I wanted to engage in is the possibility that your characterization of the NRA is not a fact.  My opinion of the NRA, while not one of 100% admiration, is that they should be applauded as the #1 group in the nation, and in history, to not only defend gun ownership, but also responsible firearm use including safety training and beginner-to-advanced level instruction.  They have done more for the POSITIVE side of gun ownership than any other group ... obvious exceptions being law enforcement and military, but I'm talking about training ALL Americans.  These are not statements of opinion, either.  These are facts based on actual statistics compared to any other group.

In the political arena, I admit they could do better than Wayne LePierre.  But I admire him for having the conviction to go in front of the nation and defend the position that, the NRA is NOT against all gun control legislation.  They are FOR any REASONABLE legislation THAT MAKES SENSE.  To make sense, the law has to address a defined problem and implement steps that address that problem effectively.  Feel-good laws based on emotional knee-jerk reactions are very difficult to speak out against, and I think the public did get the message ... at least those not screaming "child killers" during his speeches.
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moosed

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Re: new movie "the purge"- anti-nra anti-tea party?
« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2013, 07:24:21 PM »
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When only cops have guns, it's called a "police state".

clshade

Re: new movie "the purge"- anti-nra anti-tea party?
« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2013, 07:47:06 PM »
Shoots, brah.

And we actually pretty much agree and the historic role of the NRA. I was (trying to) articulating how the antis view the NRA and the danger that poses to how the Center views the NRA. Or rather my concern over the danger that poses and how the current leadership of it is leaving itself open to that. Not sure why when I discuss political strategy I too frequently come off as sounding like I believe the points of view I am discussion. Happens a lot, though, so it must be my fault.

But... enough. Thanks, by the way. This is a good challenge in articulating what I'm seeing. I fail as often as not (if I'm lucky), but the discussion really helps me refine and improve my perspective. I appreciate the time and effort it takes to engage in the discussion and I apologize if I sound a little heated at times. Really I'm just frustrated with the way politics in the this country (doesn't) work(s).

And.... I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread...  :stopjack:
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kevlar

Re: new movie "the purge"- anti-nra anti-tea party?
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2013, 12:17:00 PM »
So, I just watched The Purge, and yes, there is the whole class warfare, Marxist message that keeps getting pushed throughout the movie. And you get the feeling the director likes to mock our founding fathers with the whole 'new founding fathers' approving of annual guilt free murder. However, while I'm sure the director framed this film as an examination of wealth inequality, the violence shown actually makes a great case for the second amendment. I'm sure it wasn't his intention, but after watching this movie, you'll want to go out and buy an arsenal.

Bottom line: I'll give it a 7/10.
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