Register lowers, register 80% guns, register ammo, register magazines. . . eventually will have to register when thinking about buying a new gun. . .

Register lowers, register 80% guns, register ammo, register magazines. . . eventually will have to register when thinking about buying a new gun. . .

Or register the registration.

How about 100% firearms? Wayman Kaua (Google that name if you want) didn't use a rifle and shotgun that started out as 80% receivers to commit the crimes he did AS AN ALREADY PROHIBITED PERSON.

ONE instance, the Ala Moana shooting incident in the parking lot across Lucky Strike was the only case in recent memory identified using a 80% receiver. How many other crimes by prohibited persons this year ALONE involved firearms that weren't built from 80% receivers?

The NRA Board member's "point" does NOT point out an epidemic.

The REAL point is prohibited persons STILL obtain firearms whether they are receivers or complete firearms OEM.

Jesus Tap Dancing Christ with Autism WTF point are YOU trying to make?

You are right, there does not appear to be a current epidemic of crimes from homemade firearms.

He said "These '80 percent' guns are providing a way for prohibited people to buy a firearm," and he is correct. 80% firearms make it easier for someone prohibited to get a firearm. It requires much more knowledge and machinery to make one from scratch than it does to finish an 80%.

How about a 79%

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That would be 1% harder.

...  It requires much more knowledge and machinery to make one from scratch than it does to finish an 80%.

No, it really doesn't.  I've already listed two examples and there are 100's more.  There are firearns that are easier to make than pipe bombs.

No, it really doesn't.  I've already listed two examples and there are 100's more.  There are firearns that are easier to make than pipe bombs.

Not all guns are equal though so we can't compare some easy gun vs an AR.

I am handy and crafty and I have a lot of woodworking tools. I can easily make a zip gun from hardware supplies but I could not make an AR from scratch.

Not all guns are equal though so we can't compare some easy gun vs an AR.

I am handy and crafty and I have a lot of woodworking tools. I can easily make a zip gun from hardware supplies but I could not make an AR from scratch.

You can't "easily" build an AR either.

You can slap some stuff together and it might work, barely.
You can slap together hardware parts and make a zip gun that might work, barely.

Same same

Just cause "scary AR" we need regulations that only law abiding people are affected by?

No, don't think so. 

Laws just to feel good, and have zero effect on criminals, are nonsense, we don't need anymore of those. We have too many already.  For better effect, we need to start pulling many of those laws off the books. Not adding more.

You can't "easily" build an AR either.

You can slap some stuff together and it might work, barely.
You can slap together hardware parts and make a zip gun that might work, barely.

Same same

Just cause "scary AR" we need regulations that only law abiding people are affected by?

No, don't think so. 

Laws just to feel good, and have zero effect on criminals, are nonsense, we don't need anymore of those. We have too many already.  For better effect, we need to start pulling many of those laws off the books. Not adding more.

You can't compare a zip gun to an AR though, an AR is much more complex and significantly different in terms of capability. An 80% lower makes it much easier to build an AR than trying to make a lower from scratch.

But ultimately, all things equal, an 80% lower still makes it easier for someone who isn't supposed to have a gun to be able to have one.

Not all guns are equal though so we can't compare some easy gun vs an AR.

I am handy and crafty and I have a lot of woodworking tools. I can easily make a zip gun from hardware supplies but I could not make an AR from scratch.

The first example I reference can be just as effective as an AR.

The second example is of greater concern because it is used to procure an AR from someone.  While morally extremely difficult to do for normal people, it is still easier than using an 80% to manufacture an AR.

The first example I reference can be just as effective as an AR.

The second example is of greater concern because it is used to procure an AR from someone.  While morally extremely difficult to do for normal people, it is still easier than using an 80% to manufacture an AR.

Sorry, I am not sure what you are trying to say here.

My only point was that the NRA guy had a point. 80% lowers make it easier for unauthorized people to obtain firearms.

Building a gun from 80% complete is much easier than starting from scratch, not sure how anyone could dispute that.

Sorry, I am not sure what you are trying to say here.

My only point was that the NRA guy had a point. 80% lowers make it easier for unauthorized people to obtain firearms.

Building a gun from 80% complete is much easier than starting from scratch, not sure how anyone could dispute that.

not sure what point you're trying to say.

why would a prohibited person go through that trouble and expense to illegally build a legal 80%, rather than just buy one illegally off the street?

One can make black powder somewhat easily from legal bought products, from the hardware store and make their own illegal fireworks. Yet they easily buy it illegally off the street....

Sorry, I am not sure what you are trying to say here.

My only point was that the NRA guy had a point. 80% lowers make it easier for unauthorized people to obtain firearms.

Building a gun from 80% complete is much easier than starting from scratch, not sure how anyone could dispute that.

Not sure what you are trying to support or oppose, but since you think one must be "authorized" to exercise a civil right, nothing you say that bolsters that belief will land on the side of law abiding Americans.

Saying those prohibited from possessing firearms are "unauthorized" logically implies you think anyone who gets a gun must first be "authorized".

Based on your posts on red light laws, universal background checks, and now this issue, it appears that's exactly the way you think 2A rights are supposed to work.

In your mind, everyone must first ask permission of the gov't to be authorized to obtain firearms.  Without gov't authorization, that individual is a criminal.

Tell me I'm wrong.

not sure what point you're trying to say.

why would a prohibited person go through that trouble and expense to illegally build a legal 80%, rather than just buy one illegally off the street?

Maybe they can't find someone to sell them? I don't know about you but if I had to go out tomorrow and try to buy an AR15 illegally I wouldn't know where to start but I also don't have criminal friends (that I know of)

If an additional way is added to obtain a firearm then by definition it is easy to obtain the firearm. Anytime an additional purchase option is available it is easier.

Not sure what you are trying to support or oppose, but since you think one must be "authorized" to exercise a civil right, nothing you say that bolsters that belief will land on the side of law abiding Americans.

Saying those prohibited from possessing firearms are "unauthorized" logically implies you think anyone who gets a gun must first be "authorized".

Based on your posts on red light laws, universal background checks, and now this issue, it appears that's exactly the way you think 2A rights are supposed to work.

In your mind, everyone must first ask permission of the gov't to be authorized to obtain firearms.  Without gov't authorization, that individual is a criminal.

Tell me I'm wrong.

I never stated one must be authorized to exercise a civil right.

You are reading way too much into this, all I am saying is the statement by Tom King is factually correct. 80% firearms make it easier to get a firearm. Nothing more, nothing less.

When I say unauthorized I am referring to those individuals who are legally prohibited by law from possessing a firearm. Convicted felons, someone confined in a  mental health institution, etc. I suppose technically unauthorized isn't the most accurate term, prohibited would be more specific and correct.

I watched vice and it was about ghost guns. Most stolen guns go for $300 or less. $100 if it was used in a prior murder.

So why would someone take the time to mill a p80 and spend the time assembling and ordering parts. The total will be in the $600s and thats the cheap end. Assume the person assembling wants to also make a profit.

Criminals want a cheap gun they can toss with no remorse. No ones going to want to spend $600, toss it, and spend another $600.

Even 1911s built in mexico in the bush went for $400 and thats a steel frame.

What it really comes down to, big brother wants to know about every gun law abiding citizens have. They cant keep track of p80s on the mainland. Only 1 reason to keep track of every gun someone owns...

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I watched vice and it was about ghost guns. Most stolen guns go for $300 or less. $100 if it was used in a prior murder.

So why would someone take the time to mill a p80 and spend the time assembling and ordering parts. The total will be in the $600s and thats the cheap end. Assume the person assembling wants to also make a profit.

Because they can't find a source for a black market gun or because they don't want anyone who could rat on them. Also safer than buying it on the black market.  There are probably other possibilities but those are the first that come to mind.

OMG.

I'm out