Flying with gun parts (Read 2383 times)

groveler

Flying with gun parts
« on: October 02, 2021, 02:00:04 PM »
There are a lot of smart people here and I can't seem to find an answer to this.
Can I fly with a stripped M1911 frame and a stripped revolver frame in my check on baggage?
or even for that matter priority mail those frames to myself?
And I'm saying STRIPPED.
There are no ownership issues.
Any inputs would be welcome.
 :shaka:

eyeeatingfish

Re: Flying with gun parts
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2021, 02:16:31 PM »
I mailed a shotgun receiver in the USPS once before but later found out I wasn't supposed to do that...

As best as I can tell, since the frame would be considered the gun itself then brining a frame with you on the airplane would still be subject to all the same rules (locked in a case in a bag). I wouldn't want to risk trying and brining any obvious parts on the carry on. You wouldn't want someone being able to bring a firearm inside the cabin just in pieces ;)

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Flying with gun parts
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2021, 03:01:31 PM »
Quote
Can I fly with a stripped M1911 frame and a stripped revolver frame in my check on baggage?
or even for that matter priority mail those frames to myself?

"check on?"  Is that a new hybrid between "checked" and "carry on?"   :rofl:

All gun parts are required to be in checked luggage.  Terrorists have tried assembling a bomb aboard an aircraft from innocuous items carried on by several people working together -- hence the water bottle and 4 oz restrictions for anything that might resemble an explosive ingredient.  Trying to get the parts of a working gun onboard in several people's carry-ons wouldn't be any different.

Stripped or not, if it's classified by the ATF as a firearm, you should treat it as such.  In this case, the frames are handguns for all intents and purposes even if stripped, legally speaking.

If you mail a handgun across state lines, you need to use an FFL -- either to send or receive. 

Side note -- probably not applicable in this case:
Only an FFL can use USPS to ship a handgun.  Even if you're sending your handgun to an FFL, a manufacturer, or any other licensee, you have to use a "common carrier" such as FedEx, UPS, etc.

You also need to look at the USPS regs if you want to use them.  In my case, since a stripped AR receiver can be completed as a pistol, they treat it as a pistol since there is no barrel.  By definition, a long gun needs a 16" barrel minimum.  Without a barrel (and attached upper), the lower receiver is classified as a handgun by default according to USPS definitions, and it must be shipped by an FFL to use USPS.  Since FedEX and UPS are super expensive, I found it's cheaper to pay an FFL to ship it USPS.   :crazy:


Firearms mailed via USPS have to include services that include signature capture and tracking.  Regular priority mail won't be enough.

https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_009.htm

Since the frame resembles a handgun, you'd need to do the "locked case and declaration" just like a working handgun. 

Check your airlines' rules.  This is from United:

Quote
The regulations below refer to all firearms (or items that may resemble a firearm),
 including airsoft guns, BB guns, paintball guns and any antique trophy guns or weapons.
https://www.united.com/ual/en/us/fly/travel/baggage/sports-equipment.html

Even though it's not functional, the airline sees it as a firearm.  If they handle replicas, BB guns, and paintball guns as firearms, a stripped firearm receiver -- a firearm by ATF definition -- would also qualify.

On top of that, ask yourself if you'd want the frames to be stolen.  Without the added protection of a hard-sided, locked container, they could easily go missing.  The airline would probably not be very accommodating if you reported as stolen undeclared firearms.

These are my understandings based on personal experience and research.  As always, it's easier to make your flight by being over-prepared than hoping your interpretation is the same as the airlines'.   :popcorn:
« Last Edit: October 02, 2021, 03:07:41 PM by Flapp_Jackson »
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

zippz

Re: Flying with gun parts
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2021, 03:41:37 PM »
Long guns can be mailed through USPS.

Pistols and long guns through commercial carriers per their policies.  Going to be expensive.

Must be declared.  You can ship your own pistols and long guns to yourself, FFL is optional.

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Flying with gun parts
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2021, 04:05:37 PM »
I mailed a shotgun receiver in the USPS once before but later found out I wasn't supposed to do that...

As best as I can tell, since the frame would be considered the gun itself then brining a frame with you on the airplane would still be subject to all the same rules (locked in a case in a bag). I wouldn't want to risk trying and brining any obvious parts on the carry on. You wouldn't want someone being able to bring a firearm inside the cabin just in pieces ;)

According to my research, since your shotgun receiver didn't have a barrel length that qualified it as a long gun -- according to USPS regs -- it's classified as a handgun by default.

Quote
431.4 Rifles and Shotguns

A rifle is a shoulder weapon having a barrel that is 16 inches or more in
length
. A shotgun is a shoulder weapon having a barrel that is 18
inches or more in length
. Rifles and shotguns have an overall length of
26 inches or greater and cannot be concealed on a person.

Quote
431.2 Handguns

Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person
(for example, short-barreled shotguns and short-barreled rifles) are defined as
handguns. The following definitions apply:

Handgun (including pistols and revolvers) means any firearm which has a short
stock, and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand and subject
to 431.1, or a combination of parts from which a handgun can be assembled.

Other firearms capable of being concealed on the person include, but are not limited
to, short-barreled shotguns and short-barreled rifles.

Short-barreled shotgun means a shotgun that has one or more barrels less than
18 inches long. The term short-barreled rifle means a rifle that has one or more
barrels that are less than 16 inches long. These definitions include any weapon
made from a shotgun or rifle, whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise, if
such a weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches. A short-
barreled shotgun or rifle of greater dimension may be regarded as nonmailable
when it has characteristics to allow concealment on the person.
https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_008.htm#ep344365
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw

groveler

Re: Flying with gun parts
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2021, 04:19:13 PM »
To all thanks.
Looks like FedEx it is for the frames.
Precision machined parts.  I don't care about company policy.
These are my personal guns so no FFL crap required.
I just didn't want the TSA jackasses "losing" a complete
gun.
 :grrr:

Flapp_Jackson

Re: Flying with gun parts
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2021, 04:55:12 PM »
To all thanks.
Looks like FedEx it is for the frames.
Precision machined parts.  I don't care about company policy.
These are my personal guns so no FFL crap required.
I just didn't want the TSA jackasses "losing" a complete
gun.
 :grrr:

Cool your jets!  It's not as simple as that....

Quote
A gun owner can legally send a long gun or handgun via private carrier, i.e. UPS or FedEx,
from themselves to themselves, C/O a resident of the state to which it is being shipped.
However, UPS and FedEx have a company policy that requires firearm shipments to go
either to or from an FFL or firearms manufacturer’s address. Again, this is not a regulation,
only a policy. The regulation for all firearms shipments, whether they are with a private carrier
or USPS, states that the shipper must declare that they are shipping either a handgun(s) or a
long gun(s). UPS and FedEx also have a policy that requires handgun shipments to go Next Day
Air or Overnight Express. Again, it is not a regulation but a policy. As soon as you declare your
handgun shipment, they got you by the wallet strings and Next Day Air or Overnight Express to
Alaska is very expensive. Depending on the size, weight, and insurance, one to four handguns in
one package can run from $100 to $200 for the shipping alone.
https://alaskagunshipping.com/the-rules-of-shipping-privately-owned-firearms/
                     ^^^^^
Excellent discussion of the firearm shipping goat ropes, BTW.

In the article, it says you may be able to find an FFL in the state you'll be picking the gun up who will let you use their FFL address as "In Car Of" when whipping to yourself.  That satisfies the FFL requirement for UPS & FedEx.  The issue is, you need to make sure they won't refuse to hand over your guns just because you aren't a resident of that state.  And make sure they aren't going to charge a transfer fee, since you aren't doing one.

Realistically, the best option is to check it in your  luggage with all the normal stuff required of a complete handgun.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world;
the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
-- George Bernard Shaw