In all honesty, any firearm is just as scary to me.

A well placed shot with a 25acp can be just as deadly as a blast from a 12 gauge.

A well trained person with a 22lr can do more damage than an idiot with a 12 gauge shotgun.

Yes that is definitely true, the 22LR. Nothing to laugh at. Unless the damn round jams of course. Always the main thing that concerns me about 22LR for protection, otherwise it would be a great accurate round.

Sure as heck hope they don't drop the load IN my house. Sheesh.

They can at least have the courtesy to get the heck OUTSIDE before they drop their load.

I will be sure to chase them outside the doorway before racking again. LOL

"Pick up the poop or I'll shoot"

Is true BUT let me ask you guys HONESTLY, which is scarier? A dude holding a thick 12 gauge barrel pointed straight at you, or a dude with a handgun, or even an AR/AK.

Just for me, purely subjectively, the shotgun seems a bit more worrisome, even though logically I know all of them are deadly (especially the rifles).

I true hollywood form you gotta keep racking the action on the shotgun untill the bad guy hears.  At least 2-3 times.
I dunno double barrels of justice look intimidating, but your f#ed after 2 shots.  Plus the longer barrel takes practice to maneuver in hallways and entryways.  Pistol in home seems easier.

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Look, this is ridiculous.  I don't mean to offend, although I probably have succeeded, but OP, you need to learn what it is you are talking about.

Shoot a shotgun.  Or two.  See what it means to fire a pistol grip 12 gauge without a shoulder stock.  "Reduced recoil" means your wrist isn't broken, merely sprained.  See what firing a defensive 12 gauge load feels like.  Then, while the bruises are healing, ask your questions.

Come out to any shooting day sponsored by LIFE, HDA, or HRA.  Coincidentally, Sunday, August 25, at the HRA fun shoot, shotguns are part of the training curriculum.  You will have the opportunity to fire defensive loads through shotguns with pistol grips and shoulder grips.

When I first started shopping for shotguns I thought I wanted one with a pistol grip cause they look pretty cool and the intended use of the gun was going to be for HD and stuff like blowing up water bottles at the range. I got rid of that idea pretty quick after researching it. I then looked into shotguns with collapsible stocks and the knoxx came up a bit, some people complained they get pinched by it on the cheek. some don't.

Ended up  getting a shotgun with a regular 6 position M4 style stock, which I do like. Shooting slugs or heavy 3" loads in it can be a little punishing.

I purchased a limbsaver recoil pad for my heavy recoiling rifle and was very impressed at the difference. It completely tamed the recoil. I liked it so much that I bought one to go on the shotgun as well, it just fits right on the end of the M4 stock like any other pad. For the money I would definitely recommend the limbsaver.

Another interesting video to look at is below, he makes a good point that at the type of range you would be using a shotgun for HD it is more of a rifle

I've taken a defensive course that included shotguns and a couple guys tried their pump 12 gauge without the stock and just a pistol grip.  Like this one:



In the class, we shot a lot of buckshot and slugs and one guy put the stock back on after a shooting just a few strings without the stock.  I was able to try it as well and it's "doable" but certainly not a preferred method of employing a shotgun.  Without the stock, you lose two contact points on the gun, which significantly decreases your ability to manage recoil.  You can do it, but it's tough to keep the gun from jumping around all over the place. 

I do like pistol grips (with stock) on defensive shotguns though.  The pistol grip provides another contact point and allows you to use the grip as a lever to further help mitigate the muzzle rise/ jump. 

If you're getting brusing on your shoulder, you might check that the stock is pulled tightly into your shoulder and for each shot.  When shooting semi-auto, especially with the full buckshot and slug loads, many times the stock isn't fully anchored again in subsequent shots. 

I have very little shotgun experience.

I fired a Saiga 12 gauge before. I don't know what the ammo load was but they were slugs.

I found the recoil "tolerable" but not loving it. Got bruises on my shoulder.

If I get one with no shoulder stock (just the pistol grip) is that totally stupid and impossible to wield?

I am not expecting to shoot it much actually. Just something to scare bad guys away with a fearsome muzzle.

(No I do not want double barreled).

It will either be pump (most likely) or semi.

Just dont hold it up to your face and try to aim and shoot..

get one of those knoxx recoil reducing collapsible stock with pistol grip.. it helps with the recoil...shoot birdshots for practice.

Look, this is ridiculous.  I don't mean to offend, although I probably have succeeded, but OP, you need to learn what it is you are talking about.

Shoot a shotgun.  Or two.  See what it means to fire a pistol grip 12 gauge without a shoulder stock.  "Reduced recoil" means your wrist isn't broken, merely sprained.  See what firing a defensive 12 gauge load feels like.  Then, while the bruises are healing, ask your questions.

Come out to any shooting day sponsored by LIFE, HDA, or HRA.  Coincidentally, Sunday, August 25, at the HRA fun shoot, shotguns are part of the training curriculum.  You will have the opportunity to fire defensive loads through shotguns with pistol grips and shoulder grips.

No offense taken as none was intended. You are right, I should shoot more shotguns before deciding.

Thanks for all the replies folks - helped me recalibrate.

Is true BUT let me ask you guys HONESTLY, which is scarier? A dude holding a thick 12 gauge barrel pointed straight at you, or a dude with a handgun, or even an AR/AK.

Just for me, purely subjectively, the shotgun seems a bit more worrisome, even though logically I know all of them are deadly (especially the rifles).

IMHO you should re-evaluate your SD situations.  If it's my life on the line I will cheat as much as I can to make sure I have every advantage.  This does not include giving guys the chance to shoot me first by confronting them with an unloaded shotgun.

You want to scare guys away tell them you have called the police and they will be here soon.  Do not let the bad guys know you are armed.

IMHO you should re-evaluate your SD situations plan of action.  If it's my life on the line I will cheat as much as I can to make sure I have every advantage.  This does not include giving guys the chance to shoot me first by confronting them with an unloaded shotgun.

You want to scare guys away tell them you have called the police and they will be here soon.  Do not let the bad guys know you are armed.

+1

No reason to get a pistol grip only stock except for breeching or as a compact secondary weapon (pistol would be better).  If you want a shotgun with tolerable recoil, try a 20 guage.  Any shells in 12 guage will beat you up pretty bad after a while, even low recoil stuff.  For SD, I'd prefer an AR15 over a shotgun.

Advantage for a pump shotgun:
+cheap
+powerful/accurate at short range
+multiple types of rounds
+simple to use

Disadvantage:
- low capacity
- difficult to reload
- ammunition is bulky and heavy
- high recoil
- slow rate of fire
- short range

IMHO you should re-evaluate your SD situations.  If it's my life on the line I will cheat as much as I can to make sure I have every advantage.  This does not include giving guys the chance to shoot me first by confronting them with an unloaded shotgun.

You want to scare guys away tell them you have called the police and they will be here soon.  Do not let the bad guys know you are armed.

Holy bad idea billy...why in the hell would you confront an intruder with an unloaded gun...ANY unloaded gun? Also if an intruder is in my house...I WILL ALWAYS HAVE THE TACTICAL ADVANTAGE! This brothers is why we train and practice!

I think maybe there was some misunderstanding to my original post where I mentioned scaring bad guys away with the shotgun muzzle.

The intention is to scare them away so that there is no need to FIRE THE LOADED SHOTGUN.

I think maybe there was some misunderstanding to my original post where I mentioned scaring bad guys away with the shotgun muzzle.

The intention is to scare them away so that there is no need to FIRE THE LOADED SHOTGUN.

The point we are trying to make is you don't give the bad guys a chance.  You don't fire warning shots because that gets you charged because you arethe one doing the "reckless endangering."  You can google it, but there are plenty of examples of people who fire warning shots are then ones who get charged not the bg.

Also what is one of the cardinal rules of firearms?..........you don't point your muzzle at anything you aren't willing to destroy.  When the bg sees muzzle it should be just before they get shot.

Also if the bg sees muzzle and there is nothing chambered, if the guy knows what he's doing you have about 1.3 seconds to recognize he's pulled a firearm on you before you are getting shot.  1.5 seconds he's getting off a pretty well aimed shot.  It's probably taking you at least 1/2 of that time to even recognize they might be going for their firearm.  Fastest I've ever cleared and shot a target (man sized, close range.........about 5 feet) is 0.99 seconds with a Serpa holster.  0.99 seconds from the I surrender position to shooting.


IMHO you should probably take a SD class.  It's pretty eye opening what can happen in that short period of time.

OK thanks. Yes, headed to Front Sight.

^^^Nice!!! Excellent guys.  The class will also affect your choices of firearms too.

The only word of caution I would have is the state laws vary.  So their SD situations and reactions may not be appropriate for Hawaii.

Use Whatever is available  when the situation arises