I read this article, written by Massad Ayoob, with interest and a little disgust.  Here's a link to the article:
http://www.tactical-life.com/online/exclusives/concealed-carry-laws-state-by-state/

Here's the part that got me all huhu:
"May-issue systems lend themselves to the sort of decisions for which the legal system coined the term “arbitrary and capricious.” In Hawaii, for instance, while technically it’s possible to get a carry permit, it just isn’t possible in real world practice. I am aware of three having been issued there to private citizens during my adult lifetime. One went to the civilian armorer who serviced the Honolulu Police Department’s duty weapons. Another was held by the Governor, who got it when he was Lieutenant Governor. The third didn’t last long, a Honolulu Police Chief issued it to his sister-in-law, but had to take it back when the newspapers got wind of the story. On the other hand, I hear that a few hundred carry permits have been issued in the last few years to security guards in Hawaii."

Do you think we'll see concealed carry here in Hawaii in our life times?

The "may issue" system is a horrible system in my opinion and has been abused in Hawaii.  Giving total power to the Chief of Police is a system that is tempted by corruption.  If you look back at a lot of old gun control laws (as well as voting laws), those were put into place so that other races/classes weren't able to have guns.  Not a huge leap in my opinion.

Oh, and if the current number of gun sales and gun rights suits are a sign, I do think we'll have concealed carry.

What would it really take (legally) to change or challenge the CCW policy? Do we have to wait for some legal precedence from California (because of the circuit court coverage (as I understand it))? Will it take someone locally (who meets all the requirements (similar to Heller)) to take the policy to court?

If someone locally takes it to court, will others here support the cause financially??

Do we have the commitment as a 2A community to band together? I mean really band together?

Why hasn't someone taken this issue to court before (keep in mind that I just moved here and I'm trying to get myself familiarized with local laws and court jurisdiction)? If they have - what was the outcome and why did it fail?

As far as I see it, we can set local precedence or it can be set on a national level through the Supreme Court (SCOTUS). National precedence makes it easier to change local laws as lawyers can sue based on that.  I think the problem with Hawaii is that we don't have the high profile of some of the other restricted states like California and Washington D.C.  Those places can get the backing of large organizations like the NRA.  Even though I haven't been really active until recently, I haven't seen much of the "community" here.

I would love to see that community brought together and have stronger support for our rights.

Of course I could be totally wrong.

As 2aHawaii mentions, there are numerous ways we can bring about change. One, is to rely on court decisions in other Circuits, or in our (9th) Circuit, the other is to force the legislators to change the law here. Of course, neither is mutually exclusive of the other and one strategy may be to capitalize on current cases (either here or in other states/circuits) when introducing bills in the legislature.

It is interesting, and probably instructional for those new to the Islands, to realize that every year for the last several years, Sam Slom has indroduced "shall-issue" concealed and open carry bills and none have done well, nor even made it out of committee.

Why? "Cause gun owners all too often cannot put aside petty differences, nor be bothered to participate in the legislative process. I mean look at it from the politician's side: Every year, the same few diehards show up at the leg and say "this is good" or "this is bad" and that lots of gun owners/shooters/hunters support or oppose this bill. How far does that "a lot of" statement go when there are three folks in the gally and only 5 submitted testimonys? I'll tell you, not very far!

So, maybe we can start off by getting folks to join HRA. We have about a 1000 members, and only about 1-3% are active in the legislative process. NRA lists significantly higher member numbers in Hawaii, so why aren't more NRA members HRA members? Why aren't more HRA members more active? If we cannot convince gun owners of the importance of standing together for a common goal, how can we convince legislators?

I've mentioned that I'm new to the island and still looking for a job but I will probably join the HRA as soon as job / house stuff shows up but...

The one thing that surprises me the most since coming here is that there are lots of people who like to shoot but because of culture (or something personal) decide to stay behind the scenes. Now - I'm not trying to stereotype at all, but one of the first things I learned when I got on the island was that the tallest nail gets hit first...

You make a good point about HRA numbers verses NRA numbers and my personal opinion (note: personal opinion) is that the cost to join is too high compared to what I see are the benefits. I should also note that the costs to join the HRA are the same to join the Illinois State Rifle Association.

Now - let me say that since I don't have my guns here yet, I'm not actively involved in shooting / visiting gun stores / going to the range. But, I have on occasion visited locations based on newsgroup postings and what other friends have told me. And in my visits I have yet to see anything related to HRA at any stores (or maybe I missed it).

I monitor the HRA website for news, but the last time it was updated was July. I don't see anything on the site to sign up for email updates, I'm sure this can't be hard to configure. I don't mean to complain but I'm not seeing the value (coming from an outsider - remember I'm not trying to PO anyone here) of what HRA brings to the table.

I am a member of the Illinois State Rifle Association and I get RSS feeds as well as email updates all the time. I feel like I'm more involved with them than I am here and this is my new home.

So - instead of being part of the problem, I want to be part of the solution and joining the HRA is only a small part of that. So - to get to the question and get off my soapbox - HOW ELSE CAN I HELP? How can I (or we the shooting community) organize ourselves to be effective?

There's a curious resistance to organization here, and I'm not sure why.  I know, for example, that one gun shop owner tried to form a coalition with other gun shop owners so that they could present a united front to the state legislature.  That failed.  I know that despite HRA's numbers, when the email announcements go out during legislation season, only the same handful of people show up at the hearings or send in testimony.  I know that HRA has tried in the past to get a second public shooting range opened on Oahu, only to have other gun associations come out to protest it.  I know that people in activity-specific shooting clubs don't believe there's a need to take action because THEIR guns aren't likely to be on any ban list.

Now, in full disclosure, I do sit on the HRA board.  And you're right, we don't have much of a presence.  But we are active, if quietly.  We monitor legislative action as it occurs and send out email alerts regarding gun-related bills.  We make donations to politicians who support 2nd amendment rights.  We sponsor and support other shooting organizations.  We help fund legal actions on behalf of others pursuing 2nd amendment justice.  And we run the annual Shooting Sports Fair, the most kick-ass gun event on Oahu. 

But you're right.  We have a low profile.  People don't see the benefits.  They don't realize that HRA is the reason handguns weren't banned in '94.  Or that you don't have to re-register your guns every year.  Or that you don't have to carry your registration with you to buy ammunition.  Or that the .50 BMG is still legal in this state.  Or that there's not a limit on the number of guns you can purchase annually.  These are all bills that have been introduced, mostly by HPD, that HRA has fought. 

You really want to help?  Fantastic!!  I look forward to seeing you at the state capitol, testifying on the next round of proposed gun laws!  You don't even have to join HRA to do that.  And when your guns get here, start taking your newly-made Hawaii friends to the range!  The more active shooters we have, the more people you can carpool with during legislation season! 

Big D, I too saw that there aren't very many "activist" type people in Hawaii, and that is especially true when it comes to 2a activists.  I love what the HRA does for us but also couldn't find, all that stuff that Tom_G just posted when I went looking for it.

My feeling about it was that Hawaii gun owners need a community to go online and speak freely and really have a community feel.  Of course that hasn't happened exactly as I planned just by looking at the number of members, but I still have hopes for that.  Knowing about the Hawaii Rifle Associations accomplishments also helps.

I also hope to be able to submit testimony for the upcoming legislative session and do what ever I can to help progress Hawaii's Second Amendment freedoms.  If you want to help, help the HRA, and tell everybody about this site. I think by having a place for gun owners to go online is the best start.

Anyway, we all have our own ideas.

What would it really take (legally) to change or challenge the CCW policy? Do we have to wait for some legal precedence from California (because of the circuit court coverage (as I understand it))?

I think the requirement for change is a decision by SCOTUS that 2A is incorporated against the states in 14A.  I think the current Justices will render this decision in 2010---there are several current cases which they could accept and use for this purpose.  It may take 50 years after that, but then all those no-issue or may-but-never-issue places like CA, DC, HI, IL, MA, NJ, NY, WI will either voluntarily enact shall-issue to comply or be forced by lawsuit to do it.

I couldn't find anything on the website, but is it possible to start having monthly meetings coordinated by the HRA (regardless of membership) to discuss issues that we face? I think membership in the HRA should be encouraged but it shouldn't be the basis for admittance.

Now, the last thing I need in my life is another meeting but someone or some organization has to take the lead on organizing the Island. I can't believe that all of the gun sellers in this area can't get along for the betterment of the cause. Don't they realize that if they worked together they would probably get more customers? In Illinois, RRA / Springfield Armory / Les Bear / LMT are all in the same area but they work together to benefit the shooting community. Heck, even the indoor shooting range worked with the outdoor shooting range (including reducing rates if you belonged to one or the other).

From an outsiders perspective (I keep repeating this so people don't think I'm talking stink about them) the state of Hawaii is disorganized. I agree that giving testimony will help, but my first reaction to reading that post was why the heck would I stick my neck out there when nobody else is going to.

You don't get solders to storm a hill as a unit if only 1 or 2 go it alone.

^ I too am interested in this.  If there are people meeting up to get momentum going on gun reform in Hawaii especially in support of concealed carry, I would like to be a part of it. 

^ I too am interested in this.  If there are people meeting up to get momentum going on gun reform in Hawaii especially in support of concealed carry, I would like to be a part of it. 

Tom_G or HiCarry, do you guys have anything planned?

Sam Slom introduces legislation for shall-issue carry, both concealed and open, pretty much every year.  We show up to support it if it gets a hearing, but usually it dies in caucus.  If we could get a few hundred folks to submit pro testimony, maybe next time will be different!  We'll keep everyone posted when things begin to perculate on the legislative front again.  In the meantime, how do we outreach?  How do we get people ready to be active?

I am for concealed/open carry too.  If I'm not mistaken Sen. Slom is the only one who believes in the 2A.  Every time this comes up I always contact my representative to support it and explain to him the concept of self defense.  I'll be glad to help in any way I can.

IMHO, I think we should concentrate first to stop registration of law abiding gun owners due to it's unconstitutionality.   

I know that I am a little late in responding, so I apologize. But, at present, HRA is not able to sponser or facilitate such a group meeting. That is not to say that HRA wouldn't look at such an efffort as without merit, nor to say they would not support such an effort in the future. It is quite likely HRA would support the efforts of a local group to influence the legislative process, but we'd have to see what the board said.

So, if you want to start a group to promote 2A rights, I think it's a great idea. I think it would be a big and difficult process, as organizing any group can be, but if that's what you are willing to do, I say "go for it!" But, with that said, I cannot help but notice that, despite all the talk, no such group seems to have been formed. I could be wrong, and if so, I apologize, but I see little action to creat such a group.

HRA has monthly board meeting, which are open to members and we welcome and encourage HRA members to participate. Organizing and running another monthly meeting, especially where little could actually be acted upon (HRA needs board approval to move forward on any initiatives) and the number of participants is unknown and likely low, seems, at this point, unlikely. But, should the group actually materalize and gain sufficient numbers, I am certain we could reevaluate the situation. I say this not because I don't think it's a good idea, but because our small board already volunteer a great deal of time to "the cause" and there are ffew that spare to spend even more time. So, someone step up and organize this, or join HRA and participate in the board meeting. We need numbers and we just don't have them 'cause, well there's a lot of reasons, but we need more folks to actively participate. Be it in HRA or a separate group.

And, for those afraid to stick your necks out for fear of being alone, don't worry. There is a small group of folks who routinely stick their necks out to help protect all gun-owner's rights every legislative session. So, if you do decide to stick your neck out, don't worry. You're in good company.

Does HRA accept money order for the membership fee or it has to be check?  I emailed Mr. Gerwig but I haven't heard from him, and it's been a few days.

I would suggest also that HRA should form smaller chapters in different areas of oahu kinda like districts, the reason for that is some people don't want to travel all the way to town because of commute time.  It would be good also since they lived in those perspective community and not viewed as outsiders. 

I don't see why you couldn't use a money order to pay for your HRA membership. I will ask our membership guy and let you know. If you want to contact him yourself, his address is:

hramemberships@yahoo.com

Not to dismiss the non-reply by Harvey, but I think he's been very busy with his personal business the last couple of weeks, so on his behalf, please accept our apology for the delay.

Thanks for you interest in HRA.

Aloha,

Does HRA accept money order for the membership fee or it has to be check?  I emailed Mr. Gerwig but I haven't heard from him, and it's been a few days.

I would suggest also that HRA should form smaller chapters in different areas of oahu kinda like districts, the reason for that is some people don't want to travel all the way to town because of commute time.  It would be good also since they lived in those perspective community and not viewed as outsiders.

To follow up: yes, HRA can accept money orders for membership.

In response to the question about forming "chapters." I am not opposed to it, but currently there is not enough interest to warrant it...I also think that organizationally, it would be difficult to hold chapter meeting simply because when business does need to be conducted, we need to have everyone assembled in the same place just so we can discuss fully and then vote.
 Hope that answered your question.
Aloha,