ambubadger and others- have you ever seen/used this? (Read 5668 times)

macsak

ambubadger and others- have you ever seen/used this?
« on: October 25, 2013, 07:47:40 AM »
http://www.ems1.com/ems-products/Bleeding-Control/articles/1588423-AirWrap-provides-an-extra-set-of-hands-for-severe-bleeds/?utm_campaign=Oct%20E-news&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&utm_content=text%20-%20Read%20article%20in%20www.ems1.com
and how/when would it be better than a tourniquet?
it seems like the bladder does not put pressure around the whole extremity, just the blood vessel that is damaged
for example, the femoral artery rather than the whole leg

808gmac

Re: ambubadger and others- have you ever seen/used this?
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2013, 10:02:13 AM »
i think, this a great first aid gadget... :thumbsup:

Q

.
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2013, 05:58:21 PM »
.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2016, 02:32:43 AM by Q »

sliver

Re: ambubadger and others- have you ever seen/used this?
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2013, 04:50:12 AM »
you need to place direct pressure to the wound and do not use a tourniquet unless you know what you are doing. 

Chances are you will not have that on you when you do need it to be honest. 


Oh and if you get shot and it hits a large artery like your femoral artery or carotid, you are pretty much dead.  No ways you are gonna stop the bleeding in time to even get to the hospital in all likelihood.  its best just not to get shot.

Q

.
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2013, 05:05:07 PM »
.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2016, 06:44:32 PM by Q »

AmbuBadger

Re: ambubadger and others- have you ever seen/used this?
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2013, 11:30:23 AM »
I'll echo what everyone else said here-- it's just another gadget. Think of it as the equivalent of some mall ninja AR attachment, or at least that's how I and many other medics would see it. Here's why:

1-- Any dressing that requires a knife/shears to open is asking for trouble; people exaggerate movements under stress, and if they're using a knife, they could cut the product/patient/themselves by mistake.

2-- It uses a Luer Lock connection, commonly found on our IV supplies. That tells me that the guy who dreamed this up doesn't work ER/prehospital, but has some medical training. Why? It's compatible with existing equipment, which looks good on paper, but not in real life. The connection is a pain to use if you have big hands/only one hand to use/wearing gloves (like mechanic gloves, not medical gloves-- you may not be able to doff your gloves while treating the pt). When I start a line on a pt and have to use only one hand to screw the Luer Lock in, it's a pain in the butt. This product complicates it by putting the lock right at the device. At first that looks good since it makes for a more stable connection to screw against, but if they had an extension just a few inches further, someone else could hold it while you screw it down and it also would allow you to inflate it regardless how close you are to the inside of someone's crotch (think: GSW to inside thigh while drawing from an IWB holster) or upper arm wound right by the armpit.

3-- It's expensive: $35, which you could use to buy something much more useful and easier to practice with (do you see yourself buying two AirWraps just to "waste" one on practice? Nope...)

4-- It's a one-trick pony. When you're carrying this stuff on you, you want something that can do double or triple duty.

Here's what I would get instead, and why:

BP cuff-- you can take vitals, use it as a pressure infuser for an IV bag, tourniquet for starting a line, tourniquet to stop bleeding (not the best option though), or over a sterile dressing as a pressure bandage.

Triangular dressing-- use as a sling & swath to support a broken arm (need two), pt restraint, tourniquet (just use a stick/pen as a windlass to crank it down), or to hold other dressings or ice packs in place.

Those two items are cheaper and would allow you to do more with less. We have the C-A-T at HFD, and it does offer the advantage of Velcro and that loop to get it in place and a lock for holding the windlass down, but I would rather pack triangular dressings instead if space and money were an issue. If you're going to spend money on anything, I would suggest getting Quik Clot. That stuff is amazing; the current material doesn't burn pts, it's safe to put into people (very minimal, if any, risk of an allergic reaction or causing a clot in the vascular system somewhere else), and you can stuff it in wounds that a tourniquet can't be used on (torso).

Thanks for finding this one, Macsak, always good to see what's new out there.

HiCarry

Re: ambubadger and others- have you ever seen/used this?
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2013, 07:50:24 AM »
I agree with AmbuBadger....including getting a BP cuff for $15 and having something that does double duty. And 1+ on the Quik Clot...good stuff. I always have some in my range bag.....

macsak

Re: ambubadger and others- have you ever seen/used this?
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2013, 08:11:55 AM »
I'll echo what everyone else said here-- it's just another gadget. Think of it as the equivalent of some mall ninja AR attachment, or at least that's how I and many other medics would see it. Here's why:

1-- Any dressing that requires a knife/shears to open is asking for trouble; people exaggerate movements under stress, and if they're using a knife, they could cut the product/patient/themselves by mistake.

2-- It uses a Luer Lock connection, commonly found on our IV supplies. That tells me that the guy who dreamed this up doesn't work ER/prehospital, but has some medical training. Why? It's compatible with existing equipment, which looks good on paper, but not in real life. The connection is a pain to use if you have big hands/only one hand to use/wearing gloves (like mechanic gloves, not medical gloves-- you may not be able to doff your gloves while treating the pt). When I start a line on a pt and have to use only one hand to screw the Luer Lock in, it's a pain in the butt. This product complicates it by putting the lock right at the device. At first that looks good since it makes for a more stable connection to screw against, but if they had an extension just a few inches further, someone else could hold it while you screw it down and it also would allow you to inflate it regardless how close you are to the inside of someone's crotch (think: GSW to inside thigh while drawing from an IWB holster) or upper arm wound right by the armpit.

3-- It's expensive: $35, which you could use to buy something much more useful and easier to practice with (do you see yourself buying two AirWraps just to "waste" one on practice? Nope...)

4-- It's a one-trick pony. When you're carrying this stuff on you, you want something that can do double or triple duty.

Here's what I would get instead, and why:

BP cuff-- you can take vitals, use it as a pressure infuser for an IV bag, tourniquet for starting a line, tourniquet to stop bleeding (not the best option though), or over a sterile dressing as a pressure bandage.

Triangular dressing-- use as a sling & swath to support a broken arm (need two), pt restraint, tourniquet (just use a stick/pen as a windlass to crank it down), or to hold other dressings or ice packs in place.

Those two items are cheaper and would allow you to do more with less. We have the C-A-T at HFD, and it does offer the advantage of Velcro and that loop to get it in place and a lock for holding the windlass down, but I would rather pack triangular dressings instead if space and money were an issue. If you're going to spend money on anything, I would suggest getting Quik Clot. That stuff is amazing; the current material doesn't burn pts, it's safe to put into people (very minimal, if any, risk of an allergic reaction or causing a clot in the vascular system somewhere else), and you can stuff it in wounds that a tourniquet can't be used on (torso).

Thanks for finding this one, Macsak, always good to see what's new out there.

mahalo for your insight, ambu

Funtimes

Re: ambubadger and others- have you ever seen/used this?
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2013, 01:36:29 PM »
This package here is a great resource for having in the range or in your bag.

http://www.itstactical.com/store/medical/its-eta-trauma-kit-tallboy/

Instructors should optionally carry the EDC version in their pocket imo!

macsak

Re: ambubadger and others- have you ever seen/used this?
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2013, 02:55:07 PM »
This package here is a great resource for having in the range or in your bag.

http://www.itstactical.com/store/medical/its-eta-trauma-kit-tallboy/

Instructors should optionally carry the EDC version in their pocket imo!

at the HDF range days (and whenever i am at any range), i have pretty much that same kit in my backpack, along with splints and more dressings, plus smelling salts and epi-pens
i also bring the emergency kit from my office and an AED to the range days
ambubadger has a cart with tons more stuff
seems like at least 1/4 to 1/3 of the people have the belt kit with at least a CAT-T and some gauze/quickclot on their battle belts
i should have my battle belt set up in the next few days

not sure who else has a more comprehensive kit, i guess we should take a survey when ambubadger does his trauma overview

Funtimes

Re: ambubadger and others- have you ever seen/used this?
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2013, 12:54:14 PM »
at the HDF range days (and whenever i am at any range), i have pretty much that same kit in my backpack, along with splints and more dressings, plus smelling salts and epi-pens
i also bring the emergency kit from my office and an AED to the range days
ambubadger has a cart with tons more stuff
seems like at least 1/4 to 1/3 of the people have the belt kit with at least a CAT-T and some gauze/quickclot on their battle belts
i should have my battle belt set up in the next few days

not sure who else has a more comprehensive kit, i guess we should take a survey when ambubadger does his trauma overview

Quickclot (or their alternatives) and a TQ seems to be pretty much what you need to get it to slow down and wait till professional help comes.  Someone said don't use a TQ unless you know what you are doing... it's not that hard.  Find the artery points, close that shit up.  The likely hood you doing anything that could do more damage then the blood streaming out of that guys wound is really, really small.  You aren't going to kill off any limbs before medical can get there.   Just don't TQ the guys neck :P

HiCarry

Re: ambubadger and others- have you ever seen/used this?
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2013, 04:08:13 PM »
at the HDF range days (and whenever i am at any range), i have pretty much that same kit in my backpack, along with splints and more dressings, plus smelling salts and epi-pens
i also bring the emergency kit from my office and an AED to the range days
ambubadger has a cart with tons more stuff
seems like at least 1/4 to 1/3 of the people have the belt kit with at least a CAT-T and some gauze/quickclot on their battle belts
i should have my battle belt set up in the next few days

not sure who else has a more comprehensive kit, i guess we should take a survey when ambubadger does his trauma overview

I always have my trauma kit in the car, and therefore at the range. It includes the aforementioned CAT-T and Quickclot, as well as IVs and airway equipment. That being said, not everyone has access to that level of supplies, nor the training to use it.

ghost_medic

Re: ambubadger and others- have you ever seen/used this?
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2013, 05:33:51 PM »
a good addition to a kit is "the poor mans Israeli dressing" ... kerlix or z fold gauze,an ace wrap and 3 inch medical tape



Rocky

Re: ambubadger and others- have you ever seen/used this?
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2013, 01:37:04 PM »
Nice to know who has "the goods" as my vehicle has minimally basic B & B .
Mac, I did not know you packed an AED, also good to know.
A "briefing" of AmbuBadger "opinion" was mentioned last meet, still in the thought process ?
“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
                                                           Franklin D. Roosevelt

macsak

Re: ambubadger and others- have you ever seen/used this?
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2013, 02:03:52 PM »
Not yet
We will announce it before it happens

I only have aed if I am there all day
Most times if I work, I don't remember to grab it

macsak

Re: ambubadger and others- have you ever seen/used this?
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2013, 02:06:01 PM »

Nice to know who has "the goods" as my vehicle has minimally basic B & B .
Mac, I did not know you packed an AED, also good to know.
A "briefing" of AmbuBadger "opinion" was mentioned last meet, still in the thought process ?

I pack a lot of things I don't always show everyone
:)

AmbuBadger

Re: ambubadger and others- have you ever seen/used this?
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2013, 02:19:15 PM »
I pack a lot of things I don't always show everyone
:)

Me too. Go ahead, ask me why I'm not allowed within 100 yards of any school or playground...

Rocky

Re: ambubadger and others- have you ever seen/used this?
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2013, 03:17:07 PM »
Me too. Go ahead, ask me why I'm not allowed within 100 yards of any school or playground...

Because...
 Badgers ?
 Badgers ?
  We don need no stink'n Badgers.

   :rofl:      :rofl:
“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
                                                           Franklin D. Roosevelt