Pocket knives legal to carry? (Read 27058 times)

AWS-GTAW

Pocket knives legal to carry?
« on: March 30, 2011, 05:44:31 PM »
What are the restrictions on carrying pocket knives? 


Thanks

Funtimes

Re: Pocket knives legal to carry?
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2011, 05:56:49 PM »
Carry a divers knife.
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AWS-GTAW

Re: Pocket knives legal to carry?
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2011, 06:55:05 PM »
wow what a helpful response  ::)

Funtimes

Re: Pocket knives legal to carry?
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2011, 09:02:25 PM »
Your welcome! It gets really difficult and it depends on how the knife is marketed. If you want to defend yourself with a knife, do it with the divers knife as it's in the statute that it's not a weapon =).


While you think I am being funny or short, it really depends on many variables that I don't think can really be answered.  When is a knife a tool, and not a weapon.   If you were carrying a swiss army knife, you could probably get away with that being a tool.  If you are carrying a SOG knife that has no other attachments, that might be a weapon.

§134-51  Deadly weapons; prohibitions; penalty.  (a)  Any person, not authorized by law, who carries concealed upon the person's self or within any vehicle used or occupied by the person or who is found armed with any dirk, dagger, blackjack, slug shot, billy, metal knuckles, pistol, or other deadly or dangerous weapon shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and may be immediately arrested without warrant by any sheriff, police officer, or other officer or person.  Any weapon, above enumerated, upon conviction of the one carrying or possessing it under this section, shall be summarily destroyed by the chief of police or sheriff.

     (b)  Whoever knowingly possesses or intentionally uses or threatens to use a deadly or dangerous weapon while engaged in the commission of a crime shall be guilty of a class C felony. [L 1937, c 123, §1; RL 1945, §11114; RL 1955, §267-25; HRS §727-25; ren L 1972, c 9, pt of §1; am L 1977, c 191, §2; am L 1983, c 267, §1; gen ch 1985; am L 1989, c 211, §10; am L 1990, c 195, §3 and c 281, §11; am L 1992, c 87, §4; am L 1993, c 226, §1; am L 1999, c 285, §2]

 

Cross References

 

  Sheriff, etc., see §26-14.6.

 

Rules of Court

 

  Arrest without warrant, see HRPP rule 5(a).

 

Case Notes

 

  Probable cause for violation of section when police officer saw gun in vehicle stopped for speeding.  430 F.2d 58.

  License to carry weapon as justification.  10 H. 585.

  Weapons discovered in automobile lawfully stopped for traffic offense; legality of search and seizure considered.  50 H. 461, 443 P.2d 149.

  Mentioned in connection with arrest without warrant after seeing pistol in automobile.  52 H. 497, 479 P.2d 800.

  "Other deadly or dangerous weapon" is limited to instruments whose sole design and purpose is to inflict bodily injury or death.  55 H. 531, 523 P.2d 299.

  A "diver's knife" is neither a "dangerous weapon" nor a "dagger".  "Deadly and dangerous weapon" is one designed primarily as a weapon or diverted from normal use and prepared for combat.  56 H. 374, 537 P.2d 14.

  Cane, butterfly and kitchen knives are not deadly or dangerous weapons.  56 H. 642, 547 P.2d 587.  Sheathed sword-cane and wooden knuckles with shark's teeth were "deadly or dangerous weapons".  58 H. 514, 572 P.2d 1222.

  Statute does not require that weapons be "concealed" within the vehicle.  58 H. 514, 572 P.2d 1222.

  Vehicle stop being proper, seizure of weapons in plain view was authorized.  58 H. 514, 572 P.2d 1222.

  Shotgun is a deadly or dangerous weapon.  61 H. 135, 597 P.2d 210.

  A .22 caliber rifle is a "deadly or dangerous weapon."  63 H. 147, 621 P.2d 384.

  Nunchaku sticks are not per se deadly or dangerous weapons.  64 H. 485, 643 P.2d 546.

  The crime underlying a subsection (b) offense is, as a matter of law, an included offense of the subsection (b) offense, within the meaning of §701-109(4)(a), and defendant should not have been convicted of both the subsection (b) offense and the underlying second degree murder offense; thus, defendant’s conviction of the subsection (b) offense reversed.  88 H. 407, 967 P.2d 239.

  "Billy" as used in this section refers to "policeman’s club" or "truncheon"; a club-like implement designed for purpose of striking or killing fish is not a "billy"; section extends only to weapons deadly or dangerous to people.  10 H. App. 404, 876 P.2d 1348.

  Cited:  10 H. App. 584, 880 P.2d 213.

« Last Edit: March 30, 2011, 09:10:39 PM by Funtimes »
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Antithesis

Re: Pocket knives legal to carry?
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2011, 09:19:17 AM »
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol03_Ch0121-0200D/HRS0134/HRS_0134-0051.htm
Quote
§134-51  Deadly weapons; prohibitions; penalty

A "diver's knife" is neither a "dangerous weapon" nor a "dagger".  "Deadly and dangerous weapon" is one designed primarily as a weapon or diverted from normal use and prepared for combat.  56 H. 374, 537 P.2d 14.

Funtimes is right on the money with this one.  The exemption for dive knives was probably to keep divers from inadvertently committing felonies on their way to or from the water. 

As far as pocket knives in general, the law is somewhat ambiguous and mainly discusses what you cannot possess, i.e. switchblades, butterfly knives etc. 
« Last Edit: March 31, 2011, 11:42:44 PM by Antithesis »
"Si vis pacem, para bellum"
If you wish for peace, prepare for war

Tom_G

Re: Pocket knives legal to carry?
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2011, 02:22:58 PM »
Although it is hard to fit that diver's knife in the pockets of my skinny jeans!
The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.

Funtimes

Re: Pocket knives legal to carry?
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2011, 02:29:22 PM »
Although it is hard to fit that diver's knife in the pockets of my skinny jeans!

They sell some really small dive knives! :O  If I were to defend myself with a knife though, I would probably want it to have a guard on the handgrip so I don't overpenetrate and slice my hand.

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AWS-GTAW

Re: Pocket knives legal to carry?
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2011, 07:11:41 PM »
I been hearing mixed things, I asked a guy who was a  cop, and he told me, as long as the blade was under 6" inches it would be alright. If i remember correctly though this was about two years ago.

vooduchikn

Re: Pocket knives legal to carry?
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2011, 07:39:59 PM »
I been hearing mixed things, I asked a guy who was a  cop, and he told me, as long as the blade was under 6" inches it would be alright. If i remember correctly though this was about two years ago.

Ask another LEO, you will hear different.

I have often carried my Benchmade and have been stopped, questioned, and normally left alone. Most of the time, its a non-event.

The only safe answer is carry a dive knife. Per the law (which is stupidly vague) it is a tool.

I still carry my Benchmade everywhere I go.

Vood
Relax, I've banned myself..

Funtimes

Re: Pocket knives legal to carry?
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2011, 08:12:12 PM »
HPD gets a copy of the HRS from Lexis Nexis -- so they have the same exact laws as we do.  I would say that the officer you spoke with was mistaken.  You can verify this by compairing what he said to the actual statute above.  This is not uncommon, very few studies and actually knows the ins and outs of every single law -- it would take a *very* long time.

only thing about dive knives is they are fixed, but thats ok since you can put it on the belt.

http://www.scuba.com/scuba-gear-30/024101/Scuba-BC-Knife.html

You can get a folding dive knife as well -- and legally carry.  For example, the link below is a folding divers knife:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00061ZO1S/?tag=2ahawaii-20

Something like this would work.   Generally, you probably wouldn't have any issues.  While I was serving process I had a few guys look at my knife, but no one ever really gave me a hard time.  I really hate wondering if I am or am not breaking the law.
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2asupport

Re: Pocket knives legal to carry?
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2011, 08:52:23 PM »
I dont see how carrying a dive knife is going to get you off the hook with anything.  If you're wearing a suit and tie strolling around waikiki with a dive knife and happen to defend yourself with it.  you'd be diverting it from normal use and preparing it for defense/combat.

Tom_G

Re: Pocket knives legal to carry?
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2011, 08:53:10 PM »
Wait... from the link to HRS 134 above...

Quote
Cane, butterfly and kitchen knives are not deadly or dangerous weapons.  56 H. 642, 547 P.2d 587.

Quote
Nunchaku sticks are not per se deadly or dangerous weapons.  64 H. 485, 643 P.2d 546.

Quote
"Billy" as used in this section refers to "policeman’s club" or "truncheon"; a club-like implement designed for purpose of striking or killing fish is not a "billy"; section extends only to weapons deadly or dangerous to people.  10 H. App. 404, 876 P.2d 1348.

I've always read, including recently here, that butterfly knives were illegal in Hawaii.  However, the only explicit mention of them is in the case notes, which says they are not dangerous weapons!  Same for cane knives, nunchaku, and and fish-killing clubs.  Dude, never trust internet wisdom... look at the things it is explicitly legal for us to carry!
The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.

Funtimes

Re: Pocket knives legal to carry?
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2011, 11:50:08 PM »
Wait... from the link to HRS 134 above...

Quote
Cane, butterfly and kitchen knives are not deadly or dangerous weapons.  56 H. 642, 547 P.2d 587.

Quote
Nunchaku sticks are not per se deadly or dangerous weapons.  64 H. 485, 643 P.2d 546.

Quote
"Billy" as used in this section refers to "policeman’s club" or "truncheon"; a club-like implement designed for purpose of striking or killing fish is not a "billy"; section extends only to weapons deadly or dangerous to people.  10 H. App. 404, 876 P.2d 1348.

I've always read, including recently here, that butterfly knives were illegal in Hawaii.  However, the only explicit mention of them is in the case notes, which says they are not dangerous weapons!  Same for cane knives, nunchaku, and and fish-killing clubs.  Dude, never trust internet wisdom... look at the things it is explicitly legal for us to carry!
Time to go run around waikiki with nunchucks!
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Funtimes

Re: Pocket knives legal to carry?
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2011, 11:51:45 PM »
I dont see how carrying a dive knife is going to get you off the hook with anything.  If you're wearing a suit and tie strolling around waikiki with a dive knife and happen to defend yourself with it.  you'd be diverting it from normal use and preparing it for defense/combat.

Define normal use? You mean carrying around with you in case of emergency, because that is exactly what I do with my dive knife. I keep it to stab, poke, pry, cut, and defend against anything bad or evil.

@Tom_G

§134-53]  Butterfly knives; prohibitions; penalty.  (a)  Whoever knowingly manufactures, sells, transfers, possesses, or transports in the State any butterfly knife, being a knife having a blade encased in a split handle that manually unfolds with hand or wrist action with the assistance of inertia, gravity or both, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.

     (b)  Whoever knowingly possesses or intentionally uses or threatens to use a butterfly knife while engaged in the commission of a crime shall be guilty of a class C felony. [L 1999, c 285, §1]

They came back later and banned them, probably after that case =).
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BananaClip

Re: Pocket knives legal to carry?
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2011, 08:31:33 PM »
NUNCHAKU STICKS aka: (NUNCHUCKS) :rofl: >>>Gotta love the Nunchucks! Butterknife wit the Nunchucks in the BBD! Cops  might end up dropping you off at Kahi Mohala!! :rofl: :rofl:...Sorry had to sieze the moment.... sorry modified..
« Last Edit: April 09, 2011, 08:51:29 PM by BananaClip »
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Funtimes

Re: Pocket knives legal to carry?
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2011, 09:19:01 PM »
NUNCHAKU STICKS aka: (NUNCHUCKS) :rofl: >>>Gotta love the Nunchucks! Butterknife wit the Nunchucks in the BBD! Cops  might end up dropping you off at Kahi Mohala!! :rofl: :rofl:...Sorry had to sieze the moment.... Wait.. so BUTTERFLY KNIVES are OK? WEIRD.. I didn't know that.. and I was nervous trying to hide mine from sight thinking it was illegal just by word of mouth...GOOD DEALS! :thumbsup:

Thumbs down? You need to read my last post  :( sorry.
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Tom_G

Re: Pocket knives legal to carry?
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2011, 10:51:43 PM »
Maybe one of these years, I'll learn to not be flippant on the internet.  I just figure that everyone out there has the brains to actually LOOK into things before taking something they read on a forum as gospel. 
The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.

Funtimes

Re: Pocket knives legal to carry?
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2011, 02:15:40 AM »
Maybe one of these years, I'll learn to not be flippant on the internet.  I just figure that everyone out there has the brains to actually LOOK into things before taking something they read on a forum as gospel.

But officer! I swear those guys at 2ahawaii.com said it was ok  :wtf:! lol :P I could see that happening.
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Antithesis

Re: Pocket knives legal to carry?
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2011, 12:29:27 PM »
I think the lesson here is this: there is no magical "get out of jail free" knife to carry.  If you use a knife in self-defense, you will be in trouble with the law regardless.  That being said, the difference between using something like an 8" blade rambo knife, an illegal switchblade, an illegal butterfly knife, or a 3" pocket folder may be difference of how long, how severe or if you get convicted at all.  Juries are often decided on emotions, and certain knives will allow the prosecutor to play upon those emotions much better than others. 
"Si vis pacem, para bellum"
If you wish for peace, prepare for war

Vladimir

Re: Pocket knives legal to carry?
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2011, 09:39:41 PM »
How about a folding shovel?...and yes I'm being serious. It IS a tool and frankly I would much rather carry that in my backpack and NOT get in trouble for using it in self-defense versus me having to go to court cause I used a 3" blade to fend off a dog or mugger.

I was at the Sports Authority and it was the same thing; there are a lot of mixed answers going around. One guy bought a folding knife from SA and was told it was legal. Cops told the guy otherwise when he was questioned about it.