Hawaii Kai NHB meeting summary, 2/25/14 (Read 10220 times)

edster48

Hawaii Kai NHB meeting summary, 2/25/14
« on: February 26, 2014, 09:45:45 AM »
I'm going to preface this by saying this is a SUMMARY!

I'll skim over some portions of the meeting in order to spend more space on info that's more relevant to the 2aHI community.
If you feel you're being shorted, please feel free to come and spend the evening with Mac and I, and you can personally enjoy the fascinating oratory from the ladies of the Outdoor circle, the volunteers at the public library book store, or the guy that's whining because the bus stop his mom liked got moved!

HPD reported on the number of burglaries, car thefts, break ins, etc. Herb Schreiner asked about high number of car thefts [9], there was general approval by board members as to the content of the report. But the real exciting part was......

A presentation on the HORRIFYING DANGERS OF MARIJUANA USE!

The presentation was dated, except for HPD budget info. Gene Tierney commented that he hadn't seen anything like since high school and wondered why money was wasted on it.
Asked if we were going to see the movie "Reefer madness" next. A general discussion of the pro's and con's of pot ensued.

Tim Houghton, the Mayors representative, spoke about bill 69 [ bus ads ], the proposed refuse fee, HK roadwork, various construction projects. Told board that the Maunalua bathrooms should be open by April, pending landscaping completion. Board members and Ron Livingston complained about the length of time [4 years], and come to find out, the fixtures STILL haven't been installed.
Paige Altonn asked what could be done about a homeless camp that has sprung up in the sandy beach area, was told basically nothing @ this time.

Stanley Chang sent a rep. again, discussed the passing of a bill regarding the cemetery stockpiling, various other community complaints.

Governors rep. and C. Theilen were no shows.

Sen. Slom promoted the meeting tonight at Kaiser high, nailed Abercrombie's behind to a wall on his supposed 860 million "surplus", and the 2 billion in new spending requests and the 25 billion in unfunded liabilities us taxpayers are on the hook for. Spoke against the minimum wage increase, admitted it will likely be passed. Spoke to a mention of the HI health connector web site, agreed that it sucked, but that the state was ready to spend more money on it to have it suck worse, and then tax us for their failure..

Rep. Ward welcomed new KHS principal, basically mirrored Sen. Slom on the other issues. He did mention the bill about the internet tax proposal, and how much the people thought it sucked 82% to 18% against.

And now..... What you've all been waiting for! DISCUSSION OF THE EFFECTIVENESS OF IMPROVEMENTS TO KHSC!

As nobody from Dept. of Parks showed up, it was left to Tim Houghton to answer the queries of the board. [ I feel bad for the guy, he really seems to do his best ]

Chair Knudsen began with stating he felt the city hadn't lived up to it's billing, as the berm was in reality, not perpendicular to the floor of the range as had been promised. He also complained that the "eyebrow" extension still allowed for "blue sky" to be seen and worried about possible abuse or accidental discharges. He basically said the city hadn't done squat and challenged Mr. Houghton as to what was going to be done to rectify the situation.

Mr. Houghton responded that the work that had been done was "interim" work, and that the Mayors office and Parks dept. were "still putting together a plan" to address the issues and he knew there would be more information to follow at future meetings. 2aHI volunteerism was mentioned, as well as "other" volunteers
Paige Altonn again asked about a determination as to the "magic bullet" and was told that HPD was STILL investigating and wasn't sharing info yet. Gotta wonder a little about their so called "ballistics experts" since they can't seem to make a determination after 4 months, even if it is an open investigation. My bet is that they CAN'T say with any degree of certainty that the bullet came from the range, but they'll allow everyone to think it is based on hearsay evidence. But I digress......

Knudsen further complained about the fact that the targets at 440yds and 600yds were not taken down by parks dept. and that they refused to take responsibility for the targets by citing that the targets had been put up by range users and were not authorized. He further chastised Mr.  Houghton, saying that if the targets weren't authorized, why hadn't they been taken down long before, and expounded on the dangers from ricochets from the targets, saying again that he "had bullets whizzing by his head" while standing on the ridge. He also stated that he "knew" that bullets from the range were landing in Kalama valley because he lives there, and that he "knew" people were still shooting at the 440yd and 600yd targets [ at this point he pulled a baggie out of his pocket] because he had picked up a bunch of "shiny new bullets" while he was up removing the 440yd target. [ More on this later]

At this point, in a fantastically obvious attempt at self aggrandizement, [ since he had called in Marissa Yamane from khon to film it for the news] Gene Tierney called for the range to be closed until such a time as proper safety improvements could be made, stating: "Are we going to wait until someone gets hit by a bullet before we do anything?" I'm sure most of you saw the video that was posted. Chair Knudsen agreed that this might be a possible solution, and upped the ante by threatening to bring federal agencies into the matter, if the problems were not addressed with alacrity.
Ron Livingston from HRA stood up in defense of the steel targets, stating that they were "safe as long as they were hung properly". He and Knudsen argued back and forth, eventually agreeing that they disagreed about their disagreement most disagreeably.
 While the argument hadn't degenerated to childish name calling, it was close, and apparently board member Robert Clark had had enough!
He lit Knudsen up! Saying "Mr. chair, we've wasted enough time on this subject!
 "You need to stop using the boards time on this personal vendetta, get off your hobby horse and move on!"
Knudsen was going to gavel him, and in fact, did call him out of order. To which Mr. Clark responded "You are out of order!" Knudsen was forced to agree, and the discussion of the range improvements ended there.

As you can see, it was quite an eventful meeting. After going outside for a smoke, I returned to take a look at the "shiny new bullets". They weren't very shiny, they certainly weren't new, in fact some of them looked like some kind of Bulgarian surplus steel core ammo from the 70's. There was one relatively new 9mm, in nearly pristine condition, but it could've been from just before the Nov. range restrictions. There was also what looked a .38 brass round in the bunch, but mostly it was old 7.62.

I also took the opportunity to speak with Mr. Knudsen, to assure him that since the 100yd restriction has been in place nobody has been shooting at the targets beyond 100yds, as we all respect the rules and wouldn't wish to cause any problem that would endanger the  range or cause further controversy.
My discussion with him was interesting, but more on that in another thread............

Hope you guys enjoyed the report and found it informative, any questions? I'll be here indefinitely.  :shaka:



Always be yourself.
Unless you can be a pirate.
Then always be a pirate.

nathanm14fan

Re: Hawaii Kai NHB meeting summary, 2/25/14
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2014, 10:27:17 AM »
Ed, thanks for the in-depth review of the meeting. I love how Knudsen got called out on his personal vendetta, which at this point it certainly.

 :popcorn:

dustoff003

Re: Hawaii Kai NHB meeting summary, 2/25/14
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2014, 10:44:45 AM »
Thanks Ed and Mac!

odi294

Re: Hawaii Kai NHB meeting summary, 2/25/14
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2014, 12:12:05 PM »
Thank you for your time and effort in keeping the 2A community informed.

Aiea78

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Re: Hawaii Kai NHB meeting summary, 2/25/14
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2014, 12:17:02 PM »
Thank you edster48!


early pic riding a hobby horse looking around for range pickups.
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Haoleb

Re: Hawaii Kai NHB meeting summary, 2/25/14
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2014, 12:23:43 PM »
sounds like quite the dog and pony show going on over there.  someone just needs to kick knudsen in the nuts and tell him to stop whining.

macsak

Re: Hawaii Kai NHB meeting summary, 2/25/14
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2014, 12:31:25 PM »
I'm going to preface this by saying this is a SUMMARY!

I'll skim over some portions of the meeting in order to spend more space on info that's more relevant to the 2aHI community.
If you feel you're being shorted, please feel free to come and spend the evening with Mac and I, and you can personally enjoy the fascinating oratory from the ladies of the Outdoor circle, the volunteers at the public library book store, or the guy that's whining because the bus stop his mom liked got moved!

HPD reported on the number of burglaries, car thefts, break ins, etc. Herb Schreiner asked about high number of car thefts [9], there was general approval by board members as to the content of the report. But the real exciting part was......

A presentation on the HORRIFYING DANGERS OF MARIJUANA USE!

The presentation was dated, except for HPD budget info. Gene Tierney commented that he hadn't seen anything like since high school and wondered why money was wasted on it.
Asked if we were going to see the movie "Reefer madness" next. A general discussion of the pro's and con's of pot ensued.

Tim Houghton, the Mayors representative, spoke about bill 69 [ bus ads ], the proposed refuse fee, HK roadwork, various construction projects. Told board that the Maunalua bathrooms should be open by April, pending landscaping completion. Board members and Ron Livingston complained about the length of time [4 years], and come to find out, the fixtures STILL haven't been installed.
Paige Altonn asked what could be done about a homeless camp that has sprung up in the sandy beach area, was told basically nothing @ this time.

Stanley Chang sent a rep. again, discussed the passing of a bill regarding the cemetery stockpiling, various other community complaints.

Governors rep. and C. Theilen were no shows.

Sen. Slom promoted the meeting tonight at Kaiser high, nailed Abercrombie's behind to a wall on his supposed 860 million "surplus", and the 2 billion in new spending requests and the 25 billion in unfunded liabilities us taxpayers are on the hook for. Spoke against the minimum wage increase, admitted it will likely be passed. Spoke to a mention of the HI health connector web site, agreed that it sucked, but that the state was ready to spend more money on it to have it suck worse, and then tax us for their failure..

Rep. Ward welcomed new KHS principal, basically mirrored Sen. Slom on the other issues. He did mention the bill about the internet tax proposal, and how much the people thought it sucked 82% to 18% against.

And now..... What you've all been waiting for! DISCUSSION OF THE EFFECTIVENESS OF IMPROVEMENTS TO KHSC!

As nobody from Dept. of Parks showed up, it was left to Tim Houghton to answer the queries of the board. [ I feel bad for the guy, he really seems to do his best ]

Chair Knudsen began with stating he felt the city hadn't lived up to it's billing, as the berm was in reality, not perpendicular to the floor of the range as had been promised. He also complained that the "eyebrow" extension still allowed for "blue sky" to be seen and worried about possible abuse or accidental discharges. He basically said the city hadn't done squat and challenged Mr. Houghton as to what was going to be done to rectify the situation.

Mr. Houghton responded that the work that had been done was "interim" work, and that the Mayors office and Parks dept. were "still putting together a plan" to address the issues and he knew there would be more information to follow at future meetings. 2aHI volunteerism was mentioned, as well as "other" volunteers
Paige Altonn again asked about a determination as to the "magic bullet" and was told that HPD was STILL investigating and wasn't sharing info yet. Gotta wonder a little about their so called "ballistics experts" since they can't seem to make a determination after 4 months, even if it is an open investigation. My bet is that they CAN'T say with any degree of certainty that the bullet came from the range, but they'll allow everyone to think it is based on hearsay evidence. But I digress......

Knudsen further complained about the fact that the targets at 440yds and 600yds were not taken down by parks dept. and that they refused to take responsibility for the targets by citing that the targets had been put up by range users and were not authorized. He further chastised Mr.  Houghton, saying that if the targets weren't authorized, why hadn't they been taken down long before, and expounded on the dangers from ricochets from the targets, saying again that he "had bullets whizzing by his head" while standing on the ridge. He also stated that he "knew" that bullets from the range were landing in Kalama valley because he lives there, and that he "knew" people were still shooting at the 440yd and 600yd targets [ at this point he pulled a baggie out of his pocket] because he had picked up a bunch of "shiny new bullets" while he was up removing the 440yd target. [ More on this later]

At this point, in a fantastically obvious attempt at self aggrandizement, [ since he had called in Marissa Yamane from khon to film it for the news] Gene Tierney called for the range to be closed until such a time as proper safety improvements could be made, stating: "Are we going to wait until someone gets hit by a bullet before we do anything?" I'm sure most of you saw the video that was posted. Chair Knudsen agreed that this might be a possible solution, and upped the ante by threatening to bring federal agencies into the matter, if the problems were not addressed with alacrity.
Ron Livingston from HRA stood up in defense of the steel targets, stating that they were "safe as long as they were hung properly". He and Knudsen argued back and forth, eventually agreeing that they disagreed about their disagreement most disagreeably.
 While the argument hadn't degenerated to childish name calling, it was close, and apparently board member Robert Clark had had enough!
He lit Knudsen up! Saying "Mr. chair, we've wasted enough time on this subject!
 "You need to stop using the boards time on this personal vendetta, get off your hobby horse and move on!"
Knudsen was going to gavel him, and in fact, did call him out of order. To which Mr. Clark responded "You are out of order!" Knudsen was forced to agree, and the discussion of the range improvements ended there.

As you can see, it was quite an eventful meeting. After going outside for a smoke, I returned to take a look at the "shiny new bullets". They weren't very shiny, they certainly weren't new, in fact some of them looked like some kind of Bulgarian surplus steel core ammo from the 70's. There was one relatively new 9mm, in nearly pristine condition, but it could've been from just before the Nov. range restrictions. There was also what looked a .38 brass round in the bunch, but mostly it was old 7.62.

I also took the opportunity to speak with Mr. Knudsen, to assure him that since the 100yd restriction has been in place nobody has been shooting at the targets beyond 100yds, as we all respect the rules and wouldn't wish to cause any problem that would endanger the  range or cause further controversy.
My discussion with him was interesting, but more on that in another thread............

Hope you guys enjoyed the report and found it informative, any questions? I'll be here indefinitely.  :shaka:

great report, ed
one thing that we have to verify
i believe it was "you're out of line" and the response was "no, YOU'RE out of line!"
because "you're out of order" has a specific meaning at meeting that cannot be ignored, whether or not he used the gavel
which he certainly did not

Q

.
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2014, 01:06:57 PM »
.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2016, 10:24:21 PM by Q »

edster48

Re: Hawaii Kai NHB meeting summary, 2/25/14
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2014, 01:40:29 PM »
great report, ed
one thing that we have to verify
i believe it was "you're out of line" and the response was "no, YOU'RE out of line!"
because "you're out of order" has a specific meaning at meeting that cannot be ignored, whether or not he used the gavel
which he certainly did not

I stand corrected, I believe you're right, it was happening pretty quick and I have to say I was more than a little stunned!
Always be yourself.
Unless you can be a pirate.
Then always be a pirate.

Fabtek94

Re: Hawaii Kai NHB meeting summary, 2/25/14
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2014, 01:44:10 PM »
While the argument hadn't degenerated to childish name calling, it was close, and apparently board member Robert Clark had had enough!
He lit Knudsen up! Saying "Mr. chair, we've wasted enough time on this subject!
 "You need to stop using the boards time on this personal vendetta, get off your hobby horse and move on!"
Knudsen was going to gavel him, and in fact, did call him out of order. To which Mr. Clark responded "You are out of order!" Knudsen was forced to agree, and the discussion of the range improvements ended there.


Is there video of this archived to view? A link to that would be EPIC!

dustoff003

Hawaii Kai NHB meeting summary, 2/25/14
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2014, 01:55:45 PM »
Is there video of this archived to view? A link to that would be EPIC!

It should be broadcast on Olelo at a later date.



Edit: I just clicked on the read more link and the description said January Meeting #31, so it might be last months meeting. 

macsak

Re: Hawaii Kai NHB meeting summary, 2/25/14
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2014, 02:02:24 PM »
It should be broadcast on Olelo at a later date.



Edit: I just clicked on the read more link and the description said January Meeting #31, so it might be last months meeting.

13.1. The Hawaii Kai Neighborhood Board’s next regular meeting is Tuesday, March 25, 2014, 7:00 p.m., at Hahaione Elementary School Cafeteria.
13.2. Hawaii Kai Neighborhood Board regular meetings are cablecast the 2nd Monday of the following month at 9:00 p.m. on Olelo Ch. 49 (digital only), and repeat on that month’s 3rd Friday and the next month’s 1st Friday at 9:00 a.m. on Olelo Ch. 54. Meeting videos can also be seen online at http://www.olelo.org under “What’s On?: OleloNet” (search “Hawaii Kai Board”).

dustoff003

Re: Hawaii Kai NHB meeting summary, 2/25/14
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2014, 02:12:46 PM »
Square me away Mac! Thanks

GreenStomper

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Re: Hawaii Kai NHB meeting summary, 2/25/14
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2014, 05:07:13 PM »
I might need to go to the next meeting.
God, guns, and guts made America. Let's keep all three!

Gordyf

Re: Hawaii Kai NHB meeting summary, 2/25/14
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2014, 03:40:40 PM »
Is there video of this archived to view? A link to that would be EPIC!

The minutes will be posted on line. It will be interesting to see how they scrub it.
I also think that anyone can subscribe to the minutes and have them e mailed every month along with the agenda for next month.
Aloha
Gordy

Rocky

Re: Hawaii Kai NHB meeting summary, 2/25/14
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2014, 07:45:54 AM »
Here is the link to the neighborhood board(s)

Find your area, click on it and it will bring you there.
Past minutes and agendas are posted and you can sign up for teh Minutes to be Emailed to you as wellas notice and agenda of next meetings.

This main link
http://www1.honolulu.gov/nco/boards.htm
has info regarding rules, neighborhood plan, how to file a complaint,  Olelo Broadcast schedule and more :sleeping:
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Bota-CS1

Re: Hawaii Kai NHB meeting summary, 2/25/14
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2014, 08:32:04 AM »
The minutes will be posted on line. It will be interesting to see how they scrub it.

This is what I imagine GK's meeting notes look like

HK Neighborhood Board Minutes

Me (Knudsen): "Meow meow meow meow meow"
Board Member: "Meow meow hiss"
Knudsen: "Meow Rawr Raw Rawr!"
Board Member: "Rawr hiss!"
Knudsen: "Growl....Purr?"
« Last Edit: February 28, 2014, 08:46:22 AM by Bota-CS1 »
No one is coming, it’s up to us.

Legislation should never be about depriving law abiding citizens of something, but rather taking those things away from criminals.

GreenStomper

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Re: Hawaii Kai NHB meeting summary, 2/25/14
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2014, 04:33:08 PM »
 :rofl:   :thumbsup:
God, guns, and guts made America. Let's keep all three!