Drawstrings can cause guns many law enforcement agencies use to fire

I know it happened to a HPD officer....oops

This just in...Senator Feinstein intends to introduce a bill on Monday to ban the incredibly dangerous drawstring. A spokesperson for the Senator states that these devices are responsible for harming countless law enforcement officers. They intend to go after all drawstrings, especially those with "plastic thingies"  because those are the dreaded "assault drawstrings" that can pose a threat to our children.
 

Thats what they do go bang when the trigger is pulled.
Glocks rocks.

User error most guns go bang when u pull the trigger, even though glock seems to catch the most bad publicity for people shooting themselves in the leg when a hip holster is involved m

Holsters should cover and surround the entire trigger area and you are supposed to holster slowly, not jam it in like the movies.

Holsters should cover and surround the entire trigger area and you are supposed to holster slowly, not jam it in like the movies.

I thought the same thing. When I was CCW ( on the mainland) all my holsters covered the trigger

Interested to have a closer look at the holster.

Safety isn't a lever on a gun, or a guard on a knife.  It's a mindset.

I think most ND's occur with Glocks simply because of their safety mechanism. Not saying I don't like Glocks...I own some and many law enforcement agencies use them. Hard to beat the good ole 1911 holstered in Condition 1 (my 1911 carry preference), cocked and locked when it comes to safety. The thumb safety is positioned perfectly when unholstering to easily get on target while disengaging the thumb safe, and then you have the grip safety to boot. Not saying one is better than the other, just a comment from a safety prospective. Made me think about the Ten Commandments of Firearm Safety.

3rd COMMANDMENT:
Never Rely on Your Firearm’s Safety Mechanism to Justify Careless Handling.

If your firearm is equipped with a manual safety mechanism, do not rely on the safety as an excuse for improper or careless handling of the firearm. The safety mechanism is merely a supplement to your proper handling of the firearm. The safety mechanism may be broken or altered. Even if you think you have previously engaged the safety in the “safe” position, it may have been inadvertently disengaged without your knowledge while being carried. Never assume that the safety mechanism is engaged in the “safe” position. Your assumption may be wrong or mistaken. Treat your firearms safety mechanism like you would treat any other mechanical device – as something that could break or fail. Not all safety mechanisms operate in the same manner. Before using any firearm, know and understand precisely how the safety mechanism on that particular firearm operates. Never pull the trigger when the safety mechanism is in the “safe” position, and keep your fingers away from the trigger while loading, unloading, and engaging or disengaging the safety mechanism.

I think most ND's occur with Glocks simply because of their safety mechanism. Not saying I don't like Glocks...I own some and many law enforcement agencies use them. Hard to beat the good ole 1911 holstered in Condition 1 (my 1911 carry preference), cocked and locked when it comes to safety. The thumb safety is positioned perfectly when unholstering to easily get on target while disengaging the thumb safe, and then you have the grip safety to boot. Not saying one is better than the other, just a comment from a safety prospective. Made me think about the Ten Commandments of Firearm Safety.

3rd COMMANDMENT:
Never Rely on Your Firearm’s Safety Mechanism to Justify Careless Handling.

If your firearm is equipped with a manual safety mechanism, do not rely on the safety as an excuse for improper or careless handling of the firearm. The safety mechanism is merely a supplement to your proper handling of the firearm. The safety mechanism may be broken or altered. Even if you think you have previously engaged the safety in the “safe” position, it may have been inadvertently disengaged without your knowledge while being carried. Never assume that the safety mechanism is engaged in the “safe” position. Your assumption may be wrong or mistaken. Treat your firearms safety mechanism like you would treat any other mechanical device – as something that could break or fail. Not all safety mechanisms operate in the same manner. Before using any firearm, know and understand precisely how the safety mechanism on that particular firearm operates. Never pull the trigger when the safety mechanism is in the “safe” position, and keep your fingers away from the trigger while loading, unloading, and engaging or disengaging the safety mechanism.

+1

Even more interesting is the Police Chief noted, has shot himself twice at this point ...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2543140/Indiana-police-chief-David-Counceller-accidentally-shoots-SECOND-time-career.html

and then ran for Sheriff 

Wow. 

You know, this supports one of my counter-popular-practice beliefs, which is that one should look at one's holster when returning the firearm to storage.  It's all the rage for instructors to tell us "Keep your eyes on the threat while holstering," but I've never understood that.  If you think there may still be a threat, why holster?  And if you're convinced enough that the threat is over to holster, what's the harm in looking?  Now we see that looking could prevent a negligent discharge!

^ Darned good point, Tom_G.  And I agree that sometimes the pros' advice is more theoretically-based than practical and sometimes unrealistic.  No offense to any particular pros.

I guess you folks don't have to worry about drawstrings on coats out there, but I just checked my overcoat after seeing this video (thanks, OP!)  and it doesn't have them.  (My previous winter coat did, but it didn't seem to hang out near the holster.  I carry crossdraw, left side.)

I do live in dread of catching the trigger on my carry gun with the holster's inside safety strap, since my present carry gun sits in a molded holster and it takes a bit of force to get it in. Not like 90 pounds or anything, but you do have to push it a bit.  I have to look to make sure that inside strap is out of the way.

I have to disarm whenever I'm going into the Post Office, and re-holstering when I get back to the car always gives me a bit of the willies.  I really don't need any holes in the driver's side floorboards of the car.

Or my leg.

Terry, 230RN

- This is not what happened to an HPD Officer, it was something different. 

- The Glock will not go bang without the trigger being pulled.  The potential for this same type of situation exists for other types of pistols and is not just a Glock issue.  In reality it is a training issue that can be addressed by fixing the nut behind the gun. 

- Holstering without looking is still old school dogma still being commonly taught today.  A shift in mantra to using a quick glimpse, similar to holstering when shooting concealed.  The dogmatic curse infects the reload where the individual is traditionally pounded into their head about not looking at their weapon at any point in time where they perform a reload.  They then dance around for 5-10 seconds looking like a monkey fucking a football trying to reload when they could simply perform the reload within a "workspace" area and simply take a quick glimpse when the mag enters the magwell.   Many of these things are slowly being filtered out by the more progressive, skilled and knowledgeable  individuals within the training community, even locally, however change is uncomfortable and does not come easy for certain large entities.

 

You know, this supports one of my counter-popular-practice beliefs, which is that one should look at one's holster when returning the firearm to storage.  It's all the rage for instructors to tell us "Keep your eyes on the threat while holstering," but I've never understood that.  If you think there may still be a threat, why holster?  And if you're convinced enough that the threat is over to holster, what's the harm in looking?  Now we see that looking could prevent a negligent discharge!

Tom I completely agree. If you holster, the immediate threat is over.

- This is not what happened to an HPD Officer, it was something different. 

- The Glock will not go bang without the trigger being pulled.  The potential for this same type of situation exists for other types of pistols and is not just a Glock issue.  In reality it is a training issue that can be addressed by fixing the nut behind the gun. 

- Holstering without looking is still old school dogma still being commonly taught today.  A shift in mantra to using a quick glimpse, similar to holstering when shooting concealed.  The dogmatic curse infects the reload where the individual is traditionally pounded into their head about not looking at their weapon at any point in time where they perform a reload.  They then dance around for 5-10 seconds looking like a monkey fucking a football trying to reload when they could simply perform the reload within a "workspace" area and simply take a quick glimpse when the mag enters the magwell.   Many of these things are slowly being filtered out by the more progressive, skilled and knowledgeable  individuals within the training community, even locally, however change is uncomfortable and does not come easy for certain large entities.

 

Surf, yes you hit some key points there regarding dogma. I think for total newbies (I might still be one) the training is well and good, but then you have to decide for yourself what makes sense logically, by yourself. Some things are "best practices" but if it doesn't make sense, you can challenge it and see if anyone has any valid reason to counter your own reasons, and if not, then it's quite possible you have good reason not to follow the dogma.

Keeping the handgun high will allow quick glimpse or even peripheral vision, to assist in inserting the fresh mag, but not so high as to block your view of the threat!

I would think, if in doubt, take cover first!

Surf, yes you hit some key points there regarding dogma. I think for total newbies (I might still be one) the training is well and good, but then you have to decide for yourself what makes sense logically, by yourself. Some things are "best practices" but if it doesn't make sense, you can challenge it and see if anyone has any valid reason to counter your own reasons, and if not, then it's quite possible you have good reason not to follow the dogma.

Keeping the handgun high will allow quick glimpse or even peripheral vision, to assist in inserting the fresh mag, but not so high as to block your view of the threat!

I would think, if in doubt, take cover first!

I am definitely "that guy" when it comes to challenging doctrine that is patently outdated but still followed like some type of cult religion.  It makes me more than a bit controversial within my field and specialty.  Challenging years of dogma is not an easy thing.  Fortunately I have come to a place in my career where I am in a position to implement progressive TTP's and the results from my students and program clearly stand on their own merrit or results speak for themselves.  Fortunately this is slowly taking hold en masse throughout my employer and those trainers from other employers / gov entities who participate in my programs.  Taking the leg away from any naysayers to stand on by showing results is very satisfying.  It makes me well liked in many circles, but hated by those who like control and hate change.  Again results speak for themselves and quite frankly doing the right thing makes me have no shits to give, or asses that I need to kiss.   

As for cover, seeking cover or utilizing movement in a way to place yourself in an advantage over being static is always the goal.  Being able to do multiple things at once while hauling ass is another huge plus.  The days of working your muzzle or any manipulation with any weapon system in your face or line of sight is going the way of the dinosaur.  Slowly but surely.  The "workspace concept" is taking hold and all manipulations, with all weapon systems, are being taught to be done within the "workspace" as a default.  Yes of course we have to adapt to what we are facing or presented with at the time.  Workspace = approx basketball sized area about sternum level halfway between your body and what would be full extension of a pistol presentation.  This is just below the line of sight.  We can quickly shift our primary vision between the workspace and downrange while keeping the other in our peripheral vision.

Everyone was new once.  Being able to grow is a good thing.  Unfortunately many feel like they know enough or get too full of themselves and the learning process stops.  When we stop being a student and if we think we know it all and start believing our own bullshit, it is time to give it up wear funny clothes, shoes and hit a little white ball around with a stick.  I am not quite ready to take up golfing just yet.   

It's a freak accident nonetheless and that's what it is. The media tried to blame the Glock's design. There are always what ifs. Our world is full of them - infinitely. To mitigate risks to an absolute zero is impossible - we must accept risk in order to live. Sounds harsh but that the world we live in. He could have done a lot of things differently to avoid that from happening.
Not chambering a round
Not wearing a jacket with a drawstring.
Looking at his holster
Not pulling up on his jacket with the drawstring.
Not carry his Glock
Not go to the store....
We can certainly learn from this in many aspects.

The media tried to blame the Glock's design.

Well, there is some truth to that.  But let's think it through.  Any gun that didn't have an external safety could have gone off in that situation.  This could apply to Glocks, to any semi with a decocker, and to a revolver.  But what would have happened to a gun with an external safety?  While it wouldn't have gone off, it doesn't take much imagining to see it pulled from the holster and dropped on the floor.  In any case, we can take one of two lessons from this.  First, drawstrings are fucking evil.  Second, look when you holster.

Well, there is some truth to that.  But let's think it through.  Any gun that didn't have an external safety could have gone off in that situation.  This could apply to Glocks, to any semi with a decocker, and to a revolver.  But what would have happened to a gun with an external safety?  While it wouldn't have gone off, it doesn't take much imagining to see it pulled from the holster and dropped on the floor.  In any case, we can take one of two lessons from this.  First, drawstrings are fucking evil.  Second, look when you holster.

Good points.  I should  have mentioned in my post that I was not referring to a Glock (don't own one), but my DAO semiautomatic.  It's got a fairly light pull for a semi and while it's unlikely that the trigger will be pulled by the holster straps, it still spooks me out on general principles when I have to re-holster after disarming.

I was also agreeing with Tom_G that you holster when the threat's over, and not before:

You know, this supports one of my counter-popular-practice beliefs, which is that one should look at one's holster when returning the firearm to storage.  It's all the rage for instructors to tell us "Keep your eyes on the threat while holstering," but I've never understood that.

Terry