Going shopping I am not sure that would apply. If you left it in your car while you shopped on your way home from the range than I don't think it is an issue. I have seen instances where firearms were stollen from cars while they were on their way home and stopped somewhere but the individuals were not suspect for reporting them stolen. If it were a pistol in a case in a backpack then the shopping center would never know.

This is an issue. Shopping centers are not on the list of approved destinations, for that matter neither is a fast food drive-thru.  The law does not allow you to make any quick stops between approved destinations, this was made very clear in my handgun class. Don't chance it.

Here is an instance where firearms were stolen from a vehicle at the mall resulting in the owner's arrest for place to keep.
http://www.khon2.com/news/local/story/Car-break-in-at-shopping-center-leads-to-firearms/GPyOQmMjTkGpkWDFbU2a4A.cspx

It was discussed in this thread
http://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=2914

While it could certainly be argued that  visiting a friend's house constitutes a "soujourn" given the general definition of the word, you really need to examine how the courts construe the definition to be sure. "Sojourn" does not appear to be defined in Chapter 134 of the Hawaii Revised Statutes.  A "sojourn" is commonly referred to as a place of temporary stay but may otherwise be legally construed as a place of temporary residence such as when someone stays in a hotel or goes camping.

If you are interested in how our Hawaii courts have used the term "sojourn", take a look at the published opinion in State v. Martins, 106 Haw. 62, 101 P.3d 671 (Haw. App. 2004). In Martin,  Martin was convicted of, among other things, violating the law concerning the place to keep a firearm. In Martin, the Hawaii Intermediate Court of Appeals (ICA) affirmed the lower court's decision of conviction against Martin. In its review of the trial court's decision, the ICA reviewed excerpts from the prosecutor closing arguments in which he stated:

Now the law also states, and you are instructed, it is lawful to carry unloaded firearms. Again, this was loaded. But it has to be in an enclosed container, has to be unloaded and in an enclosed container, and only listing specific areas, business, residence, or sojourn. You know sojourn, of course, is defined. Residence, pretty obvious.

The car is typically how you transport it. It is not legal to live in a car, therefore, a car cannot be a residence. Obviously not a place of business. These are establishments. These are structures.

....

Place of sojourn, as I indicated, means a place, temporary—to live temporarily, as on a visit.

Say you are going over to Lana‘i and you are sport shooting and you stay at the Manele Bay Hotel. Your room is your place of sojourn, so you keep your shotgun in your room. That is legal. That makes sense. It is not a car. It cannot be a car because it is against the law to live in a car.


While the prosecutor's closing argument is by no means the ICA or the trial court's holding, it should be noted that neither the trial court nor the ICA disagreed with the prosecutor's statements nor were there any indications that  the Prosecutor's statements were erroneous, improper or contradicted by law.  The Hawaii Supreme Court ultimately overturned a portion of the ICA decision but did so on other grounds.

One way of interpreting Martin,  is that LE and the courts probably construe a place of sojourn as a place where one intends to or actually does temporarily reside (i.e. live there) instead of someplace where you temporarily visit as in a 7 Eleven or the Mai Tai Bar.

Thanks for the case referrence.
I would agree that going to a bar with a firearm locked in the car is not a place of sojourn and is not a good idea either. One might not necessarily face prosecution but still not a great idea.

I have noticed that a number of things in the firearms section are kind of vague. I noticed that shotguns, for example, are not defined (unless it is in some other chapter). Sojourn is another problem term as it is not defined, leaving a gray area that has the potential to both hurt the public and help the public.  I don't know the reason for some of the vagueness. The scary part is that sometimes you may never get a real answer until someone is charged with a related crime and the court actually gives a set definition.

I would take the side that if the law were not clearly defined then one cannot be convicted of breaking the law. So in this case, idealistically, I think the prosecutors should not proceed with criminal charges in a situation where a place may reasonably be considered a sojourn since the legislature failed to further define the word.

Thanks for the case referrence.
I would agree that going to a bar with a firearm locked in the car is not a place of sojourn and is not a good idea either. One might not necessarily face prosecution but still not a great idea.

I think some of us would take umbrage with your statement that a bar is not a place of sojourn. 

I would take the side that if the law were not clearly defined then one cannot be convicted of breaking the law. So in this case, idealistically, I think the prosecutors should not proceed with criminal charges in a situation where a place may reasonably be considered a sojourn since the legislature failed to further define the word.

Why would you want to risk playing in the gray area of the law? Anything left open to interpretation could land you in jail, not a risk I'm willing to take. Especially if the risk is a potential felony which could result in big brother taking away all your guns.

Bump for old but good info.

Search function works. I'm considering switching to my motorcycle for the main mode of transportation for long hauls... gas being $4.50 at the moment... and was wondering about getting the shotty to the range down in Hilo on it. That's one of my longer, regular treks and 45 mpg is (way) better than 30.

Still going to see about a case that doesn't scream "I'm a gun!"

guitar case?
they even make gun cases shaped like guitars
the utg covert bag posted the other day from amazon was cheap and doesn't scream "GUN!"

Bump for old but good info.

Search function works. I'm considering switching to my motorcycle for the main mode of transportation for long hauls... gas being $4.50 at the moment... and was wondering about getting the shotty to the range down in Hilo on it. That's one of my longer, regular treks and 45 mpg is (way) better than 30.

Still going to see about a case that doesn't scream "I'm a gun!"

I did see that go by and that's what got me thinking about it. Still looks like a gun case to me. Or at least not easy to recognize as something else specific.

I had thought of making a PVC tube case with screw caps and painting it like a mailer tube.  Meets the "rigidly constructed receptacle" and "completely enclosed" requirements. Looks more natural on a motorcycle than a soft case and protects the firearm better from rain.

Bump for old but good info.

Search function works. I'm considering switching to my motorcycle for the main mode of transportation for long hauls... gas being $4.50 at the moment... and was wondering about getting the shotty to the range down in Hilo on it. That's one of my longer, regular treks and 45 mpg is (way) better than 30.

Still going to see about a case that doesn't scream "I'm a gun!"

What kind of shotgun?  I've taken my Mossberg 500 to the range on my moped with the shotgun in a large backpack after removing the barrel and stock.  Don't lose the screws and bring tools!

For handguns, I put them in soft cases and stuff them also in the backpack.  I think it'd be a good idea to put the shotgun in at least a gun sock though.  I didn't do it back then, but would definitely do it if I had to get to the range without a car again.

Yup, 590 SP.

I thought about that. I have a couple Marlins that I was also thinking of transporting to the Glenwood range via the bike and they are all about the same size as the 590. One tube would work for all (one at time). Just as easy to pull the stock off the Marlins, though, and I think I have a backpack big enough to hold them with just the shoulder stock removed. Hmmm.... good call. Thanks.

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