I will probably rattling some chains here but here goes.

I think Shops or people giving the Hawaii Handgun Safety Classes and the state need to take more responsibility in
giving these classes.  OK I know the states position on this.  But after what I saw at the Silhouette side yesterday was
a bit bothersome.  Had a few individuals shooting that basically had very little instructions and they were not proficient
at using their pistols.  Luckily someone jumped in and asked if they needed some help.  After talking to them for a while
they said the went to class Z and this what they taught them!  They said they watched a bunch of videos and then practiced
loading a bunch of magazines. Then went to the range.  So in asking them basic pistol safety questions they could not
answer them.  I was like ?  These people are intelligent people.  They picked up fast.  But I felt they were not instructed
properly.  The way they described their class that it was jammed with a lot of people. (not the state class). and it was hard
to focus on what was being taught.

So my gripe is we may have a lot of people out there who are under trained with guns and its just damn scary.  What is going to
happen when the CCW finally is available?  I hope there is no puppy mill CCW classes.

I always urge people to get more training.

There are a lot of good instructors out there and I know they are doing a great job. 

I will probably rattling some chains here but here goes.

I think Shops or people giving the Hawaii Handgun Safety Classes and the state need to take more responsibility in
giving these classes.  OK I know the states position on this.  But after what I saw at the Silhouette side yesterday was
a bit bothersome.  Had a few individuals shooting that basically had very little instructions and they were not proficient
at using their pistols.  Luckily someone jumped in and asked if they needed some help.  After talking to them for a while
they said the went to class Z and this what they taught them!  They said they watched a bunch of videos and then practiced
loading a bunch of magazines. Then went to the range.  So in asking them basic pistol safety questions they could not
answer them.  I was like ?  These people are intelligent people.  They picked up fast.  But I felt they were not instructed
properly.  The way they described their class that it was jammed with a lot of people. (not the state class). and it was hard
to focus on what was being taught.

So my gripe is we may have a lot of people out there who are under trained with guns and its just damn scary.  What is going to
happen when the CCW finally is available?  I hope there is no puppy mill CCW classes.

I always urge people to get more training.

There are a lot of good instructors out there and I know they are doing a great job.

So, if the Hunter Education course is adequate enough to register a handgun, how does that level of proficiency in handgun operation compare to the NRA Certified Handgun Safety Class level of instruction?

I've often wondered, since I've never taken the hunter safety course.

So, if the Hunter Education course is adequate enough to register a handgun, how does that level of proficiency in handgun operation compare to the NRA Certified Handgun Safety Class level of instruction?

I've often wondered, since I've never taken the hunter safety course.

It does not by any means. I have taken both and found that the NRA Pistol course is much better contingent on the instructor(s) and instruction given. My instructor was very thorough with every detail from safety, to handgun mechanics and the different types of handguns that are available. We manipulated each type with 'dummy' rounds and used SIRT pistols before actually firing the real thing. My hunter class just briefly went over rifle and pistol nomenclature and this is that piece and that is this piece kind of instruction. Not once did we put our hands on a handgun or rifle. It was all show and tell and slides/video.

Not saying the hunter course is bad but it is for a specific out come; better understanding of hunter safety, rules and game preservation and conservation. The NRA pistol course is a much more comprehensive hands on type course that you cannot do with out in my opinion. Probably gonna get whippings for that…let her rip.

+1 to your comments Dex

It does not by any means. I have taken both and found that the NRA Pistol course is much better contingent on the instructor(s) and instruction given. My instructor was very thorough with every detail from safety, to handgun mechanics and the different types of handguns that are available. We manipulated each type with 'dummy' rounds and used SIRT pistols before actually firing the real thing. My hunter class just briefly went over rifle and pistol nomenclature and this is that piece and that is this piece kind of instruction. Not once did we put our hands on a handgun or rifle. It was all show and tell and slides/video.

Not saying the hunter course is bad but it is for a specific out come; better understanding of hunter safety, rules and game preservation and conservation. The NRA pistol course is a much more comprehensive hands on type course that you cannot do with out in my opinion. Probably gonna get whippings for that…let her rip.

+1 to your comments Dex

Based on your response, if that is the norm for hunter education curriculum, I'd say it's going to be difficult to complain about the NRA level of training in comparison.  I assumed the NRA-certified course would be better than the hunter's education class for handgun proficiency.  That being the case, the complaint should be for ALL safety classes to meet a minimum level of proficiency, not just the handgun instruction courses.

Until you plug all the leaks, you're not fixing the problem.

Gun safety should have been thought at home, with your dad giving a big slap on the head for any safety infractions. Boy, you learn fast keeping that finger out off the trigger guard.

nowdays that child abuse!

Gun safety should have been thought at home, with your dad giving a big slap on the head for any safety infractions. Boy, you learn fast keeping that finger out off the trigger guard.

nowdays that child abuse!

Haven't you heard?  The state makes us all safe by passing laws that require a certificate to register handguns.

We don't need any more training than what the state mandates.  Standards are standards!

 

hawaii is lacking in training opportunities.  where can i pay someone to get trained?  what range would the training be held at?
it is hard for a new person to join a club due to the fact most clubs are off putting to newcomers.  it is best you know someone in a club to have a decent experience.
so where does that leave all the people, in the last few years, who purchased firearms for the first time?

hawaii is lacking in training opportunities.  where can i pay someone to get trained?  what range would the training be held at?
it is hard for a new person to join a club due to the fact most clubs are off putting to newcomers.  it is best you know someone in a club to have a decent experience.
so where does that leave all the people, in the last few years, who purchased firearms for the first time?

I can only speak from personal experience.  My daughter and I took the class from OGC.  Pleasant, informative, as much hands-on shooting as you desired at end of class, and reasonably priced (including ammo). 

Firearm training is like dog obedience school.  The school doesn't teach the dog, they teach the owner how to teach the dog.  It's up to the owner to work daily with the dog and reinforce the lessons.

With firearm training, you get the basic familiarity, the important laws to follow, references for additional research, and enough shooting to demonstrate you can safely operate the gun (load, unload, aim and fire).  That's enough to introduce a new shooter to the safety rules. 

Actual proficiency and advanced skills do require self teaching (Internet, DVDs, magazine articles), peers with experience and possibly a mentor.  The ideal method is to join a club or pay for professional courses like Front Sight. 

While it's nice to hope for expert marksmanship training BEFORE anyone buys their first gun, it's not reality.  Training is an ongoing process, and as a shooting community, we are obligated to help the new shooters at the range whenever we see they are in need.  If you aren't willing to do it yourself, say something to the RSO. They are always willing to help.

hawaii is lacking in training opportunities.  where can i pay someone to get trained?  what range would the training be held at?
it is hard for a new person to join a club due to the fact most clubs are off putting to newcomers.  it is best you know someone in a club to have a decent experience.
so where does that leave all the people, in the last few years, who purchased firearms for the first time?

I am not sure what "XYZ" instruction or class SpeedTek is refering to but to answer your question coldpaint most local shops have training in house or they can refer you to a instructor. If you want PM me and I can put you in touch with the gentleman my wife and I took the NRA Pistol Course from. 

Not making excuses for anyone but learning firearm safety is an ongoing process.

One should be always vigilant in observing the firearm safety rules and there is always more to learn.

We all need to watch out for each other and make sure we self regulate an hold ourselves to the highest standards so that we don't have others regulating us.

Can you elaborate a little on what they were doing wrong? 

I assumed the NRA-certified course would be better than the hunter's education class for handgun proficiency. 

Pretty sure that was I was trying to say, may not have come across as that way but that is what I was trying to convey. Far and away the NRA class is better for the first time shooter to take over the hunter education course. You are spot on about the continued training, paying for classes and mentors to help become more proficient and confident when shooting.

I think hunter Ed should not be used for a substitute for handgun safety class.  IMHO only.

I can definitely agree with much of what you have said here.  That's why when I was teaching the permit classes I tried to provide the best education experience to my students as possible.  Hawaii certainly lacks follow on instruction in firearms.  People still need remedial training about the basics.  Hell, even in my advanced classes I have attended - the basics are covered (again, and again, and again... and then one more time!).

The fact that hunter education qualifies, just shows that the law really isn't about safety - but instead about control. 

http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/life-saving-tips-for-new-shooters

4 Life-Saving Tips for New Shooters

Personal-defense training is big business. So how do you know what you really need? If you are new to shooting, follow these four easy-to-remember tips to keep you on track.

1. Get Professional Training

2. Buy the Best Defensive Gear You Can Possibly Afford

3. Internet Gun Forums are a Waste of Time

4. Practice

Interesting information for any shooter, not just new ones. 

#3 might cause some discussion!   

at times I see people bring their significant other to the range
and its obvious they have zero shooting experience
some will benefit from training, and some just should not handle a firearm, period.  they just dont get it.
I know a few people that just should not handle a firearm, ever.
i dont even try to teach these people about firearms.

I think hunter Ed should not be used for a substitute for handgun safety class.  IMHO only.

I took the hunters safety class to get my handgun permit. It was packed w/ over 60+ people due to it being the last class of the year before the Holidays. The class was geared more towards hunters safety, rules and types of game that can be hunted. It briefly touched handgun safety and that was fine w/ me because of my experience w/ firearms. The hunters safety class is FREE which is why I took it vs. The NRA handgun safety courses which run around 100+ dollars. I only took my NRA safety course because of my plans to take the NRA RSO course and it was required by the private gun range in order for me to become a member. I think both are great to take and highly recommend that fellow firearms enthusiasts take both courses if you have the time.

IMHO I believe once you pass the safety course the responsibility of safety and proficiency is on the operator. I've encountered first-timers at ranges both here and the mainland before and it is VERY scary to watch them operate their firearm. There are tons of resources out there i.e youtube, forums, etc. that one can utilize to research safety topics and other things pertaining to firearms to gain a better understanding on safety/proficiency. I usually encourage my friends/family who are first time gun owners to research their gun(s) they plan to buy on youtube and they did and they gained a better understanding after their safety course.   

It could very well be these people didn't ask questions when they should have during their class for whatever reason. But to take the time to help them out was awesome and I think all of us with experience should offer assistance especially when it comes to firearms safety/proficiency to the noobs.

While hunters ed doesn't have actual firearm handling, it teaches a lot of stuff not taught in the handgun safety classes.

Right attitude, proper respect for the act of hunting, for the habitats, for the animals and for the rules and regulations.  It also teaches folks to become sportsmen and to teach the young properly.

I think that those who are serious about hunting with a firearm (vs a bow), should (on their own) seek additional firearms training if they need it.

I don't think the intention of hunters ed is to teach people how to CCW.

Is anybody else uneasy when someone wanting to go to a range to practice shooting complains about a $100 class fee (many include free gun use and ammo)?

I mean, if you can't afford the training, maybe you should use that ammo (and firearm) money for a class first, and then save some more before heading to the range.

If you bought the gun during a sale, great.  Use some of the money you saved for a class.  Just don't rush out to the range first UNLESS you have some experienced friends willing to help you out.

It sounds kind of like a golfer who will spend hundreds on equipment, shoes, golf balls and greens fees, but says he can't afford lessons from the local pro.

Money, in this case, should be spent on the proper priorities. 

what are we talking about here, basic safety,  the stuff you are supposed to learn in the required handgun course?  you really dont learn anything in those classes aside from
the 4 laws of gun safety and what it feels like when the pistol goes boom.

when i say training i mean as an example, is there a two day handgun course that a brand new shooter can take to become comfortable shooting?  nope.  no range.  so what options does that leave a new shooter?  join a club?  ask someone at the range for help?  where do you go?  who do you ask?  where are these services advertised?  if you do not know anybody in the local gun community you are basically sol.

what about an event like appleseed?  would that ever be able to be held on this island?  if so where?