what are we talking about here, basic safety,  the stuff you are supposed to learn in the required handgun course?  you really dont learn anything in those classes aside from
the 4 laws of gun safety and what it feels like when the pistol goes boom.

when i say training i mean as an example, is there a two day handgun course that a brand new shooter can take to become comfortable shooting?  nope.  no range.  so what options does that leave a new shooter?  join a club?  ask someone at the range for help?  where do you go?  who do you ask?  where are these services advertised?  if you do not know anybody in the local gun community you are basically sol.

What island are you on?

On Oahu, there is a public range at Koko Head.

yes koko head.  no free bays for anything.  gotta join a club.

yes koko head.  no free bays for anything.  gotta join a club.

I go the KHSC all the time.  Pistol and rifle bulls eye ranges are free of charge (excluding cost of frames and targets). 

You may have to wait depending on when you arrive and how busy they are, but I've never been totally frozen out of shooting.  Longest wait for me was 35 minutes on the rifle side.

we are talking training as in where to get some

we are talking training as in where to get some

As with many things, the answer starts with "it depends".

Have any previous training (military, LE, relatives)?
Need training for state permit? for CCW?  for another certification requirement?
Need advanced self defense pistol classes?
Need tactical rifle training?
Need personal instruction to reach professional competition level shooting skills?
Need skeet or trap shooting skills?

There are beginner, intermediate and advanced courses for almost any type of shooting you are interested in. 

Coming here was a good first step. If there is a specific level/type of training you are interested in, I'm sure you will be able to get what you're looking for.

If you're merely complaining there is no single source for this information, you're right.  But, that doesn't mean the information is unobtainable.

We have lots of answers.  Let's see if your questions match!   

what are we talking about here, basic safety,  the stuff you are supposed to learn in the required handgun course?  you really dont learn anything in those classes aside from
the 4 laws of gun safety and what it feels like when the pistol goes boom.

when i say training i mean as an example, is there a two day handgun course that a brand new shooter can take to become comfortable shooting?  nope.  no range.  so what options does that leave a new shooter?  join a club?  ask someone at the range for help?  where do you go?  who do you ask?  where are these services advertised?  if you do not know anybody in the local gun community you are basically sol.

what about an event like appleseed?  would that ever be able to be held on this island?  if so where?

This is because you have  experienced one of two syndromes - either
A. )what I would consider to be below par instructors. or,
B.) I know it all shooter syndrome. 

Many people fall into the later area. I've had many individuals "who can shoot"  Army, Navy, Coast Guard, Airforce, Marines, people who 'lost' their other sheets and so forth.  I've had people come into class with a similar attitude that you appear to have, which is "I'm not going to learn anything from that class."  If you don't find something to learn, then you failed as a shooter.   I can go back to a basic pistol safety course, an eight hour 100/101 level taught by any instructor and learn tons.  I may watch the instructor and their interactions. I may learn a new way to present something to a shooter.  I may see an application of a corrective technique when working with the shooters. Positioning. Course of fire.  The list goes on and on.


Side note you obviously were not one of the 700+ individuals I taught in the last few years.

Another side note,  there are quite a few instructors who come out at the gun show offering classes.  Have you taken those?  Most of the time people are afraid to pay for training.  I've spent more on training than I have on guns.

all im saying is that if i began my journey into firearm ownership today,  it would be hard to find information if i didnt know anyone or knew about this forum etc.

where can you sign up for lets say a multiday handgun class that i will pay someone to teach me the proper basics?

id have to go to a life session or hdf.  are there others?  where do the instructors at the gun shows teach their students?  at the public range?  certainly not at any o the action bays...

what am i missing?  ive seen individuals at the range who seems to care that they cannot hit thier pistol target at 25yds.  where can thise individuals go?

what are we talking about here, basic safety,  the stuff you are supposed to learn in the required handgun course?  you really dont learn anything in those classes aside from
the 4 laws of gun safety and what it feels like when the pistol goes boom.

when i say training i mean as an example, is there a two day handgun course that a brand new shooter can take to become comfortable shooting?  nope.  no range.  so what options does that leave a new shooter?  join a club?  ask someone at the range for help?  where do you go?  who do you ask?  where are these services advertised?  if you do not know anybody in the local gun community you are basically sol.

what about an event like appleseed?  would that ever be able to be held on this island?  if so where?

Coldpaint I would like to step up to plate as a member of the HAWAII DEFENSE FOUNDATION we as a organization do invite non experience or new shooters out to the range in a non certification way but as a way to learn from other experienced shooters and to familiarize themselves with their equipment. As a matter of fact this month on the 31st is our scheduled range day at kokohead. If anyone would like an experienced shooters attention to help them let me know and I can arrange it.

I can only speak from personal experience.  My daughter and I took the class from OGC.  Pleasant, informative, as much hands-on shooting as you desired at end of class, and reasonably priced (including ammo). 

Firearm training is like dog obedience school.  The school doesn't teach the dog, they teach the owner how to teach the dog.  It's up to the owner to work daily with the dog and reinforce the lessons.

With firearm training, you get the basic familiarity, the important laws to follow, references for additional research, and enough shooting to demonstrate you can safely operate the gun (load, unload, aim and fire).  That's enough to introduce a new shooter to the safety rules. 

Actual proficiency and advanced skills do require self teaching (Internet, DVDs, magazine articles), peers with experience and possibly a mentor.  The ideal method is to join a club or pay for professional courses like Front Sight. 

While it's nice to hope for expert marksmanship training BEFORE anyone buys their first gun, it's not reality.  Training is an ongoing process, and as a shooting community, we are obligated to help the new shooters at the range whenever we see they are in need.  If you aren't willing to do it yourself, say something to the RSO. They are always willing to help.

+1

The minimum training requirements set by the state is a happy medium. Though it is definitely not enough training for those who have never touched a gun in their life it is also painful to those residents who moved here from out of state who already owned 10 guns trying to purchase in state. Imagine if you've owned and shot firearms for 15yrs, a current holder of a CCW permit and then have someone tell you that you have to take another 6hr "Handgun Safety Course" to buy one in this state, no waivers.. 

what about an event like appleseed?  would that ever be able to be held on this island?  if so where?

We've inquired but there was little interest.
There are lots of training opportunities given by people with real skills sets - the problem is getting enough interest and discipline to stick with it and they're free! The Marines are ONE example. They have hosted the Pac Div matches every year; opened up instruction and competition to civies. Great opportunity.

all im saying is that if i began my journey into firearm ownership today,  it would be hard to find information if i didnt know anyone or knew about this forum etc.

where can you sign up for lets say a multiday handgun class that i will pay someone to teach me the proper basics?

id have to go to a life session or hdf.  are there others?  where do the instructors at the gun shows teach their students?  at the public range?  certainly not at any o the action bays...

what am i missing?  ive seen individuals at the range who seems to care that they cannot hit thier pistol target at 25yds.  where can thise individuals go?

There are many clubs that use the action bays, inquire with the range officers.

MPPL.net is 1 of 3 IPSC clubs that use the action bays. There you can draw from holster, reload from your mag pouches and shoot ALL 10rds from your magazines. They also have rifle side matches as well as shotgun matches. There will be a true 3-Gun match coming this 2nd half of the year at hawaiipracticalshooters.org

+1

The minimum training requirements set by the state is a happy medium. Though it is definitely not enough training for those who have never touched a gun in their life it is also painful to those residents who moved here from out of state who already owned 10 guns trying to purchase in state. Imagine if you've owned and shot firearms for 15yrs, a current holder of a CCW permit and then have someone tell you that you have to take another 6hr "Handgun Safety Course" to buy one in this state, no waivers.. 

Most of those people who have had guns for 15 years, have a CCW, etc. are some of the ones who need the training the most imo!  If you "learned" a long time ago, there is arguably so much better stuff out there now a days in terms of mechanics.

When I went to do my 3 weeks at sig sauer for armorer/ handgun instructor / active shooter instructor, the 1st class I signed up for was a introduction to basic pistol.

all im saying is that if i began my journey into firearm ownership today,  it would be hard to find information if i didnt know anyone or knew about this forum etc.

where can you sign up for lets say a multiday handgun class that i will pay someone to teach me the proper basics?

id have to go to a life session or hdf.  are there others?  where do the instructors at the gun shows teach their students?  at the public range?  certainly not at any o the action bays...

what am i missing?  ive seen individuals at the range who seems to care that they cannot hit thier pistol target at 25yds.  where can thise individuals go?

Basic handgun instruction is not a multi-day class unless you throw in CCW or some other more advanced training.  If you want to learn to shoot one particular pistol you've purchased, that only takes about an hour to instruct and demonstrate the basics of stance, grip, sight picture, loading, unloading, clearing malfunctions, proper trigger pull, and so on. 

Once you've shown you can emulate what you are shown, the rest will not take days, but months of visiting the range, sending about a thousand rounds down range, and developing muscle memory and confidence.

You may discover over time, you prefer a certain handgun brand or model over others.  That's also part of the process.  There is no one-size-fits-all for firearms.  You'll have to be open-minded and test out some other hardware.

That's for one handgun.  If you have multiples, you will need to repeat the process if the firearm is very different in ergonomics, function and/or caliber.

I'm sure someone else will let me know if I left anything out, but this is the path I took with my daughter, who went from 100% never touched a handgun in her life, to participating in a MPPL competition. 

One last thing.  Hawaii has a very active shooting community.  Unfortunately, this is not a state that wants to make ownership easy.  The government does the bare minimum to support us most of the time.  Unless someone is willing take it upon themselves to organize all the clubs, local gun stores, FFLs, trainers, military groups, law enforcement, sporting goods stores, and firearm owners who want to participate under one cohesive system, we will continue to have a system of self-organized groups with common interests, some of which have affiliations with variety of national organizations.

If you ever take up golf, it's basically the same.  You go out with a few friends, decide you like it, realize it requires training beyond the basics, and you seek out the resources that you are comfortable with.  Most start with the pros.  You talk to the employees at your favorite equipment retailer, and they give you the best options to begin your journey.

This is because you have  experienced one of two syndromes - either
A. )what I would consider to be below par instructors. or,
B.) I know it all shooter syndrome. 

Many people fall into the later area. I've had many individuals "who can shoot"  Army, Navy, Coast Guard, Airforce, Marines, people who 'lost' their other sheets and so forth.  I've had people come into class with a similar attitude that you appear to have, which is "I'm not going to learn anything from that class."  If you don't find something to learn, then you failed as a shooter.   I can go back to a basic pistol safety course, an eight hour 100/101 level taught by any instructor and learn tons.  I may watch the instructor and their interactions. I may learn a new way to present something to a shooter.  I may see an application of a corrective technique when working with the shooters. Positioning. Course of fire.  The list goes on and on.


Side note you obviously were not one of the 700+ individuals I taught in the last few years.

Another side note,  there are quite a few instructors who come out at the gun show offering classes.  Have you taken those?  Most of the time people are afraid to pay for training.  I've spent more on training than I have on guns.

second this, even as a former MP more the marines i suck at pistol. HDF was a great refresher and reminder of why i need a lot more work on my pistol. s hooting is a perishable skill and everyone should take their the initiative on their own to get refreshed and maybe even learn something new as the years go on.

all im saying is that if i began my journey into firearm ownership today, it would be hard to find information if i didnt know anyone or knew about this forum etc.

where can you sign up for lets say a multiday handgun class that i will pay someone to teach me the proper basics?

id have to go to a life session or hdf.  are there others?  where do the instructors at the gun shows teach their students?  at the public range?  certainly not at any o the action bays...

what am i missing?  ive seen individuals at the range who seems to care that they cannot hit thier pistol target at 25yds.  where can thise individuals go?

A simple search would net anyone that are actively seeking training, different venues to improve their level of knowledge in regards to firearms safety, usage, and basic marksmanship skills etc. 

 "it is hard for a new person to join a club due to the fact most clubs are off putting to newcomers.  it is best you know someone in a club to have a decent experience."

Please do elaborate your experiences or are these assumptions?  As I am sure that the clubs would like to hear feed back as to what they could do better to accommodate ALL shooters.  After reading your posts, I am confused if you are asking these questions about training for yourself or for others that you see around you.  You obviously found this forum and listed shooting clubs that are available, so are you expecting more?  I wish there were more clubs or training that I could attend but we are going to have to work with what is available.

There are many different ways for new shooters to become comfortable shooting and it is that individuals responsibility to make that happen.  IMO this could be go from learning the mechanics of how your firearm works, dry firing, or to even watching youtube for your basic principles for firearm handling. 

  its all about common sense now if you see a person without common sense tell him to plug the barrel with is finger and see what happens

ImKu

im just being devils advocate to stir discussion.  as for the clubs, you either like them or dont.  (people or format or both)

yes i am sad that there are limited opportunities and have to work with what is available.  does it have to be this way?  after many years of the sos, kudos to hdf for stirring the pot.

its even more sad when you see others having problems and it seems like they want help but dont know where to go.

im not talking about the asshats, there will always be those no mater what.

ImKu

im just being devils advocate to stir discussion.  as for the clubs, you either like them or dont.  (people or format or both)

yes i am sad that there are limited opportunities and have to work with what is available.  does it have to be this way?  after many years of the sos, kudos to hdf for stirring the pot.

its even more sad when you see others having problems and it seems like they want help but dont know where to go.

im not talking about the asshats, there will always be those no mater what.

Don't get me wrong, I understand the frustration.  You could just look at the waiting list for HDF this upcoming class (there is a fun shoot portion at 1200is where people are more than willing to assist new shooters in a one on one type set up and is open to everyone with different skill sets).  I think there is a alot of people that are seeking training, but with the limited resourses/funding and the anti-gun politics here in Hawaii I find that you just need to jump on opportunities as they arise.  For example, could you imagine the response if say HDF had a commercial advertising what they do for the shooting community and the type of training that is provided?  IMO there would be tons of people interested.  If you were here during last election, we all remember the lines at HPD.  I'd venture to say that a good amount of people may have purchased their very first firearm during that period.  For those that we see having problems, we can only hope that there are people like some here on this forum, that would provide assistance to help new shooters.