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  • Big Island Active Shooter Presentation: July 02, 2014

Active Shooter presentation - Big Island - Kamuela - Questions to be asked !! (Read 15823 times)

Deep Throat Harry

Hawaiʻi Police Department
Office of the Chief
Chief Harry S. Kubojiri
Phone: 961-2244


Media Release (update)

The Hawaiʻi Police Department will make an “active shooter” presentation at an evening meeting in Waimea next week.

The meeting will take place 5-6:30 p.m. on Wednesday (July 2) at the Waimea Community Center located at 65-1260 Kawaihae Road.

The presentation is designed to help individuals increase their survivability should they encounter an active shooter or other type of active violent incident.

Police will provide information on previous incidents of mass violence, recent events, best practices for those caught in such situations, law enforcement’s response, and how to work together as a community toward prevention. They will also provide additional resources for participants so they can continue their education on this topic, followed by a question-and answer segment.

Chief Harry Kubojiri encourages the public to attend. “We hope no tragedy like this ever happens in our community,” he said, “but we want our citizens to know how to best protect themselves if it ever does.”
« Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 06:51:40 AM by 2aHawaii »

Deep Throat Harry

So polite, articulate people should attend this talk.

And these polite people should ask some rather pointed questions about concealed carry.

And it should be video recorded. Both the speaker and the crowd from multiple angles

Deep Throat Harry

An interesting and purely hypothetical case to consider.

Currently we are denied our rights. In fact, the Chief of the Police sits in judgment of us. He decides at *his* discretion if we are allowed to defend ourselves against criminals.

We are required to justify our "fear".

Well, hypothetically, the Police Chief himself could be a criminal. And hypothetically, one of his victims could apply for a ccw.

And hypothetically, this victim, could justify his or her fear with, " I need a carry permit because of people like you, Mr. Police Chief".

Hypothetically.

punaperson

So polite, articulate people should attend this talk.

And these polite people should ask some rather pointed questions about concealed carry.

And it should be video recorded. Both the speaker and the crowd from multiple angles
Mr. Kubojiri has never ever, even once, seen a situation in which circumstances dictated he issue a CCW license. After writing him long, polite, detailed, "pointed" questions in several letters, it's quite clear from his very short, sometimes evasive answers that he will never ever, even once, issue a CCW license to a citizen of the Big Island, unless and/or until forced to do so by the courts/legislature. The idea of him giving a presentation about what to do during an "active shooter" situation makes a mockery of the Constitutions of both the United States and Hawaii, wherein the "right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed". If you are outside your home when confronted by an active shooter situation, you will be legally disarmed (from carrying almost any kind of effective weapon, not just a firearm) unless that active shooter confrontation takes place at the police station, retail gun store, legal gun repair location, a range, or legal hunting area. What are the odds of that happening?  :wtf:

robtmc

So polite, articulate people should attend this talk.

Well, that sort of leaves me out of it, doesn't it?

Assuming anyone does ask about why we are not allowed to defend ourselves, it would go downhill fast for me.

punaperson

Well, that sort of leaves me out of it, doesn't it?

Assuming anyone does ask about why we are not allowed to defend ourselves, it would go downhill fast for me.
I have to edit my letters to chief Kubojiri for at least two days before sending them to get them into the almost "fully polite" zone. (I'm guessing the very act of questioning authority at all, much less even "politely" may be an affront to many.) Then when I get the response from him in which he avoids giving the kind of answer I was clearly and unmistakably asking for (e.g. he sends me the legal boiler plate statute when I've specifically asked him to give examples of 5 specific statements on an application that he would then evaluate as eligible for a CCW license, etc.), I have to wait two or three weeks before even beginning to compose my response and further questions to allow my, uh, unhappiness with his response to settle down enough to attempt to compose a "polite" letter. Things are so politically correct that a display of even mild anger or sarcasm over being denied a natural, fundamental, individual, inalienable, Constitutionally-protected right is considered "impolite" and thus verboten in public discourse. It's almost like "they won". I'll say it again:  :wtf:

clshade

Rats. Working down in Hilo at exactly that time. :/

Maybe I can postpone. That sucks as I should really be at this presentation. I'm curious what they have to say to concerned citizens and active shooter situations.

"Take cover behind something solid, call 911 and remain on the line. If the shooter notices you throw something at them and use the distraction to hide somewhere else. Cringe and beg for your life when they catch you. Let the 911 operator know who to contact to execute your estate. You may wish to prepare by having have a good lawyer write up your last will and testament."

Heavies

When these liberal types have presentations like this, it utterly disgusts me.  They might as well tell the public to just lie down in a line so the 'active shooter' doesn't have to move around so much to kill people. 

This will help the police when they arrive. The police doesn't have to worry about collateral damage, since all the civilians are already dead.  They can concentrate on capturing the shooter, giving him a mentsl eval, and setting him back out in the street...  since 'he's such a good boy, and it isn't his fault' 

Deep Throat Harry

I am somewhat dismayed at the direction this conversation has taken.

I believe I articulated the solution.

Perhaps I am wrong, but it is fairly well known that Harry has engaged in dishonorable behavior in the past. My understanding is the records of this behavior are now sealed, expunged.

It is also my understanding this behavior likely continued and was not registered in the criminal record during his later life

So if this hypothesis is correct, we merely need to find one of the victims and have them apply for a CCW. My sources are impeccable, incidentally.

It would make for a fascinating newspaper article and a fascinating court case and it would set precedent for other applications.

sworbeyegib

I actually went to an active shooter seminar at a trade show back in March. What they told us was pretty much the following.

-Run away from noise, never towards it.
-Hide, barricade doors, stay quiet, silence cell phones.
-Only fight as a last resort and improvise whatever weapons you can.

Yea... an hour and a half lecture and that was pretty much it.

Deep Throat Harry

Wow.....so I am still not making myself clear.....for legal types the following is purely hypothetical.......

So the Police Chief is a fucking criminal.......

Fucking Criminals are called criminals because they hurt people .....

Hurt People are called victims.......

Victims have a reason for FEAR.....

FEAR is the legal basis for CCW on the Big Island.....

So if the Victims of the Criminal who is the Police Chief applied for CCW, we would have a good news story....a good legal case....precedent .....

Are you people fucking deaf ?

Hypothetically speaking ?

mauidog

Wow.....so I am still not making myself clear.....for legal types the following is purely hypothetical.......

So the Police Chief is a fucking criminal.......

Fucking Criminals are called criminals because they hurt people .....

Hurt People are called victims.......

Victims have a reason for FEAR.....

FEAR is the legal basis for CCW on the Big Island.....

So if the Victims of the Criminal who is the Police Chief applied for CCW, we would have a good news story....a good legal case....precedent .....

Are you people fucking deaf ?

Hypothetically speaking ?

An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

stangzilla

wow, no need use profanity. 

punaperson

Wow.....so I am still not making myself clear.....for legal types the following is purely hypothetical.......

So the Police Chief is a fucking criminal.......

Fucking Criminals are called criminals because they hurt people .....

Hurt People are called victims.......

Victims have a reason for FEAR.....

FEAR is the legal basis for CCW on the Big Island.....

So if the Victims of the Criminal who is the Police Chief applied for CCW, we would have a good news story....a good legal case....precedent .....

Are you people fucking deaf ?

Hypothetically speaking ?
1. "Fear" is not sufficient reason to issue a CCW license according to the current administration (and the former administrations). It doesn't matter who or what one is afraid of, nor how much fear or how reasonable that fear is, they don't care. Nor is there any other sufficient reason, at all. No one  is getting a CCW license no matter what (unless Peruta is eventually upheld).

2. If you have a case that you believe will somehow require a license to be issued, then go ahead and make the case and see what happens. Even if there is such a case alleging illegal activity, I suspect it would be fought with the full force of the County legal resources, and if, and that's a huge if, the decision came down against the county, there would likely be a resignation and your case would be moot. But I could be wrong, maybe after the meeting tomorrow night when you ask your polite questions and make your polite comments CCW licenses will begin being issued the next day. I'm looking forward to finding out what happens. Hypothetically.

sworbeyegib

Your hypothetical rationality of needing a CCW because of criminal intent demonstrated by the police chief is going to come off very crass and narrow minded. That is not a proper legal precedent either, you are just attempting to make brash jumps between A to B to justify your logic.

Stick to non-accusatory questions relevant to the topic being discussed. Remember that this is a presentation on active shooters. You can stray into political territories, but do so in an assertive way, not an aggressive way.

They will likely mention at some point that active shooter situations are becoming more and more commonplace.  Use his own words against him. 

"Sir, you yourself said that active shooter scenarios are not just becoming more commonplace and are claiming more and more lives of our citizens. With shootings on the rise, how is this not considered a just reason for an American to not be in justified in his fear of his safety of life".

"You stated that an active shooting can happen any time, and anywhere. My life does not suddenly depreciate the second I am out in public.  There is never a time or a place that I am not concerned with my well being. By denying the rights to carry legally outside of my home, this leads me to believe that your concern for my safety does not apply once I've passed my doorstep."

Bring up the SPU shooting, and Jon Meis, the student that took down the shooter.

"During the tragic Seattle Pacific University shooting, a student, Jon Meis, proved that an exceptionally brave citizen can play a pivotal role in stopping anymore innocent lives from being taken.  He did so by risking his life for the people around him.  He is a hero, and is incredibly lucky to be alive.  However, there have been so many other people, in so many other incidents, that placed the lives of those around them above their own in an attempt to stop needless killing.  Many of those people are no longer with us. No one asked them to give their lives trying to save others, they did so because that's the kind of people they were.  You cannot deny that being allowed to carry the appropriate tools to defend ones life, these people would have had an exponentially greater chance at succeeding and surviving."

These are the kinds of questions you need to ask.  Make your points and yourself look good, without painting him as evil.  Let him do that to himself for you.

Cite the Peruta case, or better yet, our very own Baker vs Kealoha case.  Tell him that this just isn't your opinion on the 2nd amendment, it is the circuit court's as well.

Remember, this isn't so much about directly addressing him.  You are speaking and voicing this to the entire group of people listening.  Make sound points without coming off as pompous.  Winning the hearts and minds of people that would traditionally be either on the fence, or against CCW should be your main goal so that there is more public awareness drummed up.

Deep Throat Harry

From the very law which Harry's lawyer quoted to me:

Issuing Authority:
 In an exceptional case, when the applicant shows reason to ***fear**** injury to his person or property, the respective chief of police may grant a license to carry a concealed firearm on his person within the county where the license is granted to a U.S. citizen or duly accredited official representative of a foreign nation age 21 or older.

----------------------

So I would imagine that people who have been victimized by the Police Chief (hypothetically) would have reason to fear him.

Indeed people using Free Speech to defend their rights might also have reason to Fear Him....which his lawyers will request of you when you apply for a permit......you must articulate Fear of Injury......from some bad person who has a sealed record of hurting people .... a sociopath.....who craves power and enjoys lording it over others....

I don't know about you guys but obviously my remarks are coming from TOR.

Deep Throat Harry

Your hypothetical rationality of needing a CCW because of criminal intent demonstrated by the police chief is going to come off very crass and narrow minded. That is not a proper legal precedent either, you are just attempting to make brash jumps between A to B to justify your logic.


Remember, this isn't so much about directly addressing him.  You are speaking and voicing this to the entire group of people listening.  Make sound points without coming off as pompous.  Winning the hearts and minds of people that would traditionally be either on the fence, or against CCW should be your main goal so that there is more public awareness drummed up.

Well finally somebody with two neurons to rub together.....

It ain't personal....but it is for his victims....isn't it ?

My sources are 3 letter Federal Agencies which have taken an interest in him.

mauidog

Well finally somebody with two neurons to rub together.....

It ain't personal....but it is for his victims....isn't it ?

My sources are 3 letter Federal Agencies which have taken an interest in him.

Try wrapping your neurons around this...

If you go into that meeting and appear to have and agenda that is more "smear the police chief", and NOT about the specific topic, "How to Survive an Active Shooting', you'll distract from what should be the objective:  convince people the best way to survive a shooting is to have the means to defend yourself.

That's all you should be trying to do.  If you think creating a news story about how the PC is using his discretion to disarm his own supposed victims and make them helpless for whatever vile reason he may have, it has nothing to do with the topic of the discussion.

It's like thread jacking here.  Try to stay on point.  If you go off on a deep tangent, the original meaning of the thread gets buried pretty darn quick! 

Excuse my French!   >:D
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

punaperson

From the very law which Harry's lawyer quoted to me:

Issuing Authority:
 In an exceptional case, when the applicant shows reason to ***fear**** injury to his person or property, the respective chief of police may grant a license to carry a concealed firearm on his person within the county where the license is granted to a U.S. citizen or duly accredited official representative of a foreign nation age 21 or older.

----------------------

So I would imagine that people who have been victimized by the Police Chief (hypothetically) would have reason to fear him.

Indeed people using Free Speech to defend their rights might also have reason to Fear Him....which his lawyers will request of you when you apply for a permit......you must articulate Fear of Injury......from some bad person who has a sealed record of hurting people .... a sociopath.....who craves power and enjoys lording it over others....

I don't know about you guys but obviously my remarks are coming from TOR.
Read the county law relating to the state statute, Sec.4, 2: "The applicant shall show proof that: (A) That there is reason to fear injury to his person or property to the degree which necessitates the carrying of a concealed firearm."

Also notice 5: "No license shall be issued unless the Chief of Police is satisfied that the applicant is a suitable person to be licensed and has demonstrated proficiency with the firearm to be carried."

In other words, no chief of police in the state of Hawaii has EVER (well maybe some time in the distant past, and then maybe only for friends and the politically connected) seen any kind of fear which "necessitated" carrying a firearm. No such conditions have ever existed, nor are they ever likely to exist. You have other options: hire personal security, move to another state, etc.

Also note that there is no definition of "suitable", so the chief can arbitrarily and capriciously deny you a permit as "unsuitable" to him, and that is the end of it. Please also note that there are no definitions of what constitutes "demonstrated proficiency", so that could also mean anything... 500 hours of advanced training or whatever. The only thing (in my personal opinion) that will change this situation is Peruta, and we won't likely know about how that ends up for at least a couple of years, and even if it goes our way the legislature, et. al. will drag their feet as long as possible and then attempt to impose absurd requirements.

But I hope you turn things around at the meeting tomorrow night.

Deep Throat Harry

Try wrapping your neurons around this...

If you go into that meeting and appear to have and agenda that is more "smear the police chief", and NOT about the specific topic, "How to Survive an Active Shooting', you'll distract from what should be the objective:  convince people the best way to survive a shooting is to have the means to defend yourself.

That's all you should be trying to do.  If you think creating a news story about how the PC is using his discretion to disarm his own supposed victims and make them helpless for whatever vile reason he may have, it has nothing to do with the topic of the discussion.

It's like thread jacking here.  Try to stay on point.  If you go off on a deep tangent, the original meaning of the thread gets buried pretty darn quick! 

Excuse my French!   >:D

Dude....I am busy....I can't come ...

But I need photos and video of every person at the event....we need to know their faces.....

Multiple agents have been deployed on my end and on his end.....

Getting a bit tired of being jerked around and held down by this fellow while he thrusts away...