Linked Events

  • Big Island Active Shooter Presentation: July 02, 2014

Active Shooter presentation - Big Island - Kamuela - Questions to be asked !! (Read 15808 times)

punaperson

mauidog

Dude....I am busy....I can't come ...

But I need photos and video of every person at the event....we need to know their faces.....

Multiple agents have been deployed on my end and on his end.....

Getting a bit tired of being jerked around and held down by this fellow while he thrusts away...

Given what you are writing, your handle here, the animosity toward the BI PC, and asking members to video people at a public meeting so you can "know their faces" ...

Something tells me the word "agenda" is totally inadequate.  More like "vendetta!" 

It's probably a good thing you won't be at the meeting.  I can't see any good coming from the types of questions or taking of video you are asking.

And if you have to  ask a bunch of strangers on a forum to do what you can't find time for, don't come here and rant about how people aren't picking up what you're laying down.

For all we know, you're a government troll, looking to entrap someone with a conspiracy charge of some type.

See? What did I tell you about thread jacking?  What were we talking about again??

 :stopjack:

To be fair, it's your thread!  Jack away!!!!    :rofl:
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

Deep Throat Harry

Given what you are writing, your handle here, the animosity toward the BI PC, and asking members to video people at a public meeting so you can "know their faces" ...

Something tells me the word "agenda" is totally inadequate.  More like "vendetta!" 

It's probably a good thing you won't be at the meeting.  I can't see any good coming from the types of questions or taking of video you are asking.

And if you have to  ask a bunch of strangers on a forum to do what you can't find time for, don't come here and rant about how people aren't picking up what you're laying down.

For all we know, you're a government troll, looking to entrap someone with a conspiracy charge of some type.

See? What did I tell you about thread jacking?  What were we talking about again??

 :stopjack:

I appreciate your angle on the situation...but no....I have bigger fish to fry....

Seigii

Quote

Also notice 5: "No license shall be issued unless the Chief of Police is satisfied that the applicant is a suitable person to be licensed and has demonstrated proficiency with the firearm to be carried."


So if the police chief thinks someone is suitable and proficient, what happens when that someone screws up, ie, shoots bystander instead of bad guy.  Law suits galore, naming police chief, the department, the county.  It is in his best interest not to issue a permit and avoid potential liability and the way the law is currently written, it is at the police chief's discretion.  Until we become a shall issue state, which would remove the liability from the police chief, it's in his best interest not to issue them, regardless of his personal views on concealed carry.

mauidog

So if the police chief thinks someone is suitable and proficient, what happens when that someone screws up, ie, shoots bystander instead of bad guy.  Law suits galore, naming police chief, the department, the county.  It is in his best interest not to issue a permit and avoid potential liability and the way the law is currently written, it is at the police chief's discretion.  Until we become a shall issue state, which would remove the liability from the police chief, it's in his best interest not to issue them, regardless of his personal views on concealed carry.

Turn that around...

What happens when girl friend gets a TRO against boy friend, but boy friend keeps stalking.  He's just obvious enough to terrorize, but smart enough to not get caught by police doing anything overtly against the TRO.

Girl friend buys a pistol, practices for weeks (uses a friend's pistol at the range until the 2 week wait is over), then takes the gun home.

She feels safe and happy at home, knowing her new protector is by her side.

However, she leaves for work, goes shopping, visits family, or has appointments ... she's totally paranoid!  She sees the boy friend around every dark corner, behind every tinted car window, sitting across the street ... sometimes it's him, sometimes it's imagination.

One day, she finds her car tires flattened with knife cuts in the sidewalls.  She goes to the police and asks for an application for CCW.

Four days later, she gets a letter from the police chief saying she failed to justify why she needs to carry a concealed weapon in public.  The chief advises her to stay in populated, well-lit areas, keep her phone charged and on her, and call 911 if she feels she is in danger.

Two days later, they find her body.  She was leaving work after a late night meeting.  Even though she asked for the car and house keys back, she was not aware he'd made copies.  Police say she was strangled by hand while facing her attacker, based on the marks on her neck.



Now, how much responsibility and liability do you think the police chief, the city, the county, and the state have in this?  The girl friend had every right, and adequate justification, to carry a concealed pistol.  Thanks to the policy of the Hawaii police departments, there is no such thing as a good enough justification.  It's 100% subjective and assumes the applicants are all untrustworthy regardless of prior military, LE or private shooting experience.

You use the typical anti argument "what if she hits an innocent bystander?"

#1 - COPS hit innocent bystanders ALL THE TIME. You don;t see a march on city hall to ban COPS from carrying guns, right?
#2  - When someone is carrying concealed, they are very UNLIKELY to take a shot unless they are sure they can hit their target.  It's just a fact.  They know pulling the trigger means firing a bullet that can kill, and most are not secure enough in their skills under pressure to act too quickly.  They are hesitant and careful.  They know they can die if they don't get it right.  they aren't panicking and shooting at anything that moves.
#3 - whether carrying concealed, driving a car, or walking across the street, there are no guarantees someone won't get hurt or killed.  That's what we call "personal responsibility".  If the license holder shoots someone else, then punish them if they did something wrong.  You don't punish 100% of the people by taking away a right because a very small number of them might accidentally hurt or kill another person.  Hell, if we used that logic, nobody would be flying, driving, riding a bus, roller skating, biking, selling knives, hammers, bows & arrows, poisons for pests and weeds, selling lawn mowers, selling sharp landscaping implements ... I think you get my drift.

In all things, there is some inherent risk.  We work to minimize that risk.  There is no way that anyone knows of to eliminate risk.  That's how life works.

What we also know is people have a natural right to defend their lives against a threat.  Removing that right because of a hypothetical risk is illogical and unconstitutional.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2014, 11:06:50 PM by mauidog »
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

clshade

Good luck with that, DTH. And I'm not being snide in saying it.

Experience would suggest that since there is no direct accountability to the public on the part of the Chief of Police and the law doesn't stipulate any reason for or against granting a CCW permit... your logic is irrelevant no matter how many neurons you have firing away. Correct, sure, but still irrelevant. And an active shooter seminar is far from the place to effectively address such legal issues.

The only effective place to address that issue is in court.

As for the man himself... if he's being investigated then he's being investigated. It'll be interesting to see how that turns out. I'm not really sure how asking pointed questions at a trite little public seminar would do anything except get egg on the face of the questioner, though.

wolfwood

Ask him about Mr. Young's appeal. County of Hawaii i.e. his legal counsel conceded there must be some form of rifle and shotgun carry for lawful self defense.  As such as him how rifle and shotgun carry should be implemented.
Please add my business facebook page if you are interested in my litigation
https://www.facebook.com/ABeckLaw/

Seigii

Mauidog, there's an arguable amount of liability in anything we do because of the way our civil court system works.  Let me try and take the 2A part out of what I was trying to get across earlier. You ask to borrow my chainsaw to cut your tree that's going into neighbor's yard.  I let you borrow it and the tree you cut falls on your neighbor's house.  Or, with the same scenario, I don't let you borrow it, your neighbor gets mad at you for not taking care of your tree, punches you in the face. Seems to me I'm more responsible if I give you the ability to do what goes wrong, than not give you the ability and that leads to a third party doing something wrong to you. But what do I know, I got sued by my ex and lost for taking the exact amount of money I put into a joint bank account when we ended our relationship.  I think personal responsibility is dwindling in general in part because civil courts make it easy to blame someone else for what happened.  Thanks for the thought provoking conversation dog.  You ever come to the big island, drop me a line for beers and talk story about guns.:))

On topic, I think all active shooter presentations are run, if you can't run then hide, if you can't hide then fight.  They'll suggest how you should run, don't use the elevator, try not to run in a straight line or in a narrow space, things you can use to hide, use to barricade your position.  They don't really tell you how to fight, except maybe grab whatever you can to use as a weapon.

HiCarry

So if the police chief thinks someone is suitable and proficient, what happens when that someone screws up, ie, shoots bystander instead of bad guy.  Law suits galore, naming police chief, the department, the county.  It is in his best interest not to issue a permit and avoid potential liability and the way the law is currently written, it is at the police chief's discretion.  Until we become a shall issue state, which would remove the liability from the police chief, it's in his best interest not to issue them, regardless of his personal views on concealed carry.
Sorry, you're wrong. Qualified immunity would kick in should the worse happen and a CCW permittee shots an innocent third party. Also applies if an applicant for CCW is denied and then is injured or killed and "could" have defended himself if he had been carrying a firearm.

Deep Throat Harry

So I am inclined to take the lawyer's advice and do it mauidog's way.

If I am ever in Hawaii, I hope he will serve as my lawyer.

BUD

So I am inclined to take the lawyer's advice and do it mauidog's way.

If I am ever in Hawaii, I hope he will serve as my lawyer.

 :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:
It is what it is.

mauidog

So I am inclined to take the lawyer's advice and do it mauidog's way.

If I am ever in Hawaii, I hope he will serve as my lawyer.

DISLAIMER
This information is given for topic discussion and personal opinion only. It may not apply to your specific situation.
It is not legal advice, and I am not a lawyer. You have to find your own local lawyer to get legal advice and help with your problem.


An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

BUD

DISLAIMER
This information is given for topic discussion and personal opinion only. It may not apply to your specific situation.
It is not legal advice, and I am not a lawyer. You have to find your own local lawyer to get legal advice and help with your problem.




That is only if he is ever in Hawaii. Sounding like Harry had him deported???   :wtf:
It is what it is.

mauidog

That is only if he is ever in Hawaii. Sounding like Harry had him deported???   :wtf:

Either that or he fled Harry's jurisdiction to avoid persecution.....

... sounds like he's living on another planet!    :crazy:
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

Seigii

So....deep throating Harry is not from here and the only posts he has is for this thread that he started......???

BUD

So....deep throating Harry is not from here and the only posts he has is for this thread that he started......???

And he is not even in Hawaii but has somehow been wronged by Harry the County of Hawaii police chief. :wtf:
It is what it is.