"You can't miss fast enough..." (Read 4846 times)

Tom_G

"You can't miss fast enough..."
« on: August 09, 2014, 10:24:43 AM »
One of my friends who is also a very qualified instructor uses a saying when he's talking about the importance of accuracy and control:

Quote
You can't miss fast enough... you know...

Then he just trails off, with a look on his face that he expects us to know what he's talking about.  But it makes no sense!  What does it matter how fast or slow you miss, if you miss?

I remember hearing someone else say

Quote
You can't hit fast enough to make up for a miss.

Which makes a little more sense, if you are talking about shooting in a timed competition.  But I still get the feeling that this isn't right.  Kind of like "" or "Beam me up, Scotty."  People say these and believe they are quoting something, but those words were never spoken by the attributed sources.

So, what is the original saying about hitting or missing fast enough, and where does it come from?
The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.

mauidog

Re: "You can't miss fast enough..."
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2014, 11:14:02 AM »
I've seen it posted as The Gunfighter's Rules, Murphy's Laws of Gunfights, and other lists all having pretty much the same basic items.

"You can't miss fast enough to win."

It's a round-about way to say,  it doesn't matter how fast you are if you miss.

http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/ccw/gunfight_rules.htm
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

Surf

Re: "You can't miss fast enough..."
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2014, 11:21:53 AM »
In short -
I like to say "a fast miss, is still a miss and misses don't win gunfights."

In more detail -
I generally speak on this when talking about balancing speed and accuracy.  I usually relate that accuracy has to be #1, in that if you can't hit what your shooting at no matter how long it takes you're screwed.  This leads into the topic that if two shooters are equally accurate and can both put a single round into the tip of the nose of the other person, who would win that fight?  Whoever can do it quicker.  So with equal amounts of accuracy or precision, the person who can do it faster will win every time. 

Keeping this in mind there needs to be a balance of speed and accuracy in a gunfight.  This in turn goes into the topic of finding out where our balance lies and then pushing the shooter outside of their comfort zone, until they start to miss, or where the "wheels fall off", so to speak.  From there we dial it down a notch and find an optimal point where the shooter should be concentrating their training in regards to what is an acceptable hit zone / percentage in conjunction with the speed requirement to get those results.  Training at that "optimal" zone of balancing speed and accuracy the student becomes faster and more accurate with that correct repetition. 

As the students time increases and accuracy / precision shrink, we then we increase speed and perhaps accuracy standards, or both.  This leads into a shooter understanding that it isn't about being fast, for the sake of being fast, but being deliberate in their presentation and practice and with the deliberate and correct application of skills and then speed will follow.  We don't teach them to be slow, as in "slow is smooth, smooth is fast", which is incorrect, but we teach efficiency in our motor skills which leads to increased efficiency and speed of repetition with correct practice increases.

If a shooters base fundamentals are not sound and if a correct training progression is not followed, a shooter can be fast as hell getting a shot off, but if you can't hit your target, you're screwed.  Therefore the saying that I use is, "A fast miss, is still a miss and misses don't win gunfights." 

On a side note to this one, we like to say that if you train for speed and your fundamentals are not sound you're also screwed.  So I tend to say, "training to be fast but all fucked up, is only teaching yourself to be fucked up, very quickly."       

Rocky

Re: "You can't miss fast enough..."
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2014, 03:04:20 PM »

QuoteYou can't miss fast enough... you know...

So, what is the original saying about hitting or missing fast enough, and where does it come from?

Your instructor is the first to say it !
As for Stink'ng badgers...



Actually, the evolution of this line began in 1927 with the publication of the novel The Treasure of the Sierra Madre, a tale of greed, betrayal and madness written by the mysterious author and leftist/anarchist B. Traven (c. 1890-1969). 

The main characters are three American prospectors searching for gold in Mexico’s Sierra Madre mountains: Fred C. Dobbs, Bob Curtin and an old-timer named Howard.
In a scene later made famous by the movie version, the prospectors run into a group of shady-looking, heavily-armed Mexicans, who they suspect are bandits. 
Indeed, the Mexicans are bandits and the meeting ends up in a gunfight. But just before the shooting starts, the leader of the bandits tells the prospectors that they are federales — the local “mounted police.”

Dobbs says skeptically of that claim: “If you are the police, where are your badges?”

In Traven’s book, the bandit leader replies angrily (and colorfully):

“Badges, to god-damned hell with badges! We have no badges. In fact, we don’t need badges. I don’t have to show you any stinking badges, you god-damned cabron and ching’ tu madre!”
“I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
                                                           Franklin D. Roosevelt

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Re: "You can't miss fast enough..."
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2014, 09:15:55 PM »
"Speed's fine, but accuracy's final."  -Bill Jordan, in "No Second Place Winner."

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0936279095/?tag=2ahawaii-20
I do believe that the radical and crazy notion that the Founders meant what they said, is gradually soaking through the judicial system.

aieahound

Re: "You can't miss fast enough..."
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2014, 10:33:22 AM »
In short -
I like to say "a fast miss, is still a miss and misses don't win gunfights."

I So I tend to say, "training to be fast but all fucked up, is only teaching yourself to be fucked up, very quickly."       
:thumbsup:

Kind of like ""
 People say these and believe they are quoting something, but those words were never spoken by the attributed sources.

We don't need no stinkin' badges is actually a quote from Blazin Saddles.



Be ready to attack Rock Ridge at noon tomorrow. Here is your badge.
Badges ? We don't need no stinkin' badges !   :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
It's a classic.


« Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 10:42:01 AM by aieahound »