California Gun Waiting Period Laws Ruled Unconstitutional (Read 6726 times)

wolfwood

California Gun Waiting Period Laws Ruled Unconstitutional
« on: August 25, 2014, 10:31:32 AM »
Great win in CA for gun rights. Basically the Court found the 10 day waiting period unconsitutional for people that already own registered guns because it does not take anywhere close to 10 days for a back ground check.

ROSEVILLE, CA (August 25, 2014) – California’s 10-day waiting period for gun purchases was ruled unconstitutional by a federal judge this morning in a significant victory for Second Amendment civil rights. The laws were challenged by California gun owners Jeffrey Silvester and Brandon Combs, as well as two gun rights groups, The Calguns Foundation and Second Amendment Foundation.

In the decision released this morning, Federal Eastern District of California Senior Judge Anthony W. Ishii, appointed to the bench by President Bill Clinton, found that “the 10-day waiting periods of Penal Code [sections 26815(a) and 27540(a)] violate the Second Amendment” as applied to members of certain classifications, like Silvester and Combs, and “burdens the Second Amendment rights of the Plaintiffs.”

“This is a great win for Second Amendment civil rights and common sense,” said Jeff Silvester, the named individual plaintiff. “I couldn’t be happier with how this case turned out.”

Under the court order, the California Department of Justice (DOJ) must change its systems to accommodate the unobstructed release of guns to gun buyers who pass a background check and possess a California license to carry a handgun, or who hold a “Certificate of Eligibility” issued by the DOJ and already possess at least one firearm known to the state.
http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=812c9186a81db6434329bda16&id=9fec32dd78
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punaperson

Re: California Gun Waiting Period Laws Ruled Unconstitutional
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2014, 01:34:01 PM »
Great news!  :thumbsup: Now can we find a judge that will rule similarly against all of Hawaii's inane unconstitutional Second Amendment-abridging laws (including the ridiculous 14-21 day waiting period to purchase a handgun)?

During the last legislative session I submitted testimony to the legislature asking them to pass SB2050 (ending the 14-21 day waiting period) out of committee. In that letter I referenced (see url in testimony below) Judge Ishii previous ruling in the case wherein he denied California Attorney General Kamal Harris's request for summary judgment on all counts of the plaintiffs arguments/grounds. Ishii firmly denied her on all counts, so the case proceeded... If you read his earlier opinion you can tell he was rather brusk in his dismissal of her arguments, and he followed through with this decision today.

Testimony in support of SB2050: Ending waiting period for previously registered firearm owners

Dear Chair and Committee Members,

Please support and advance SB2050.

1. There is no evidence that a “waiting period” decreases crime. This bill only addresses eliminating a waiting period for previously registered firearm owners. Since these people already have access to at least one other firearm, there is not even the possibility of any public safety benefit from requiring these firearm owners to undergo any waiting period.

2. The vast majority of states in the United States only require that the purchaser of a firearm undergo a background check through the National Instant Background Check System (NICS). There is no evidence that any other system of checking individuals backgrounds is superior or that use of this NICS check alone increases any kind of crime. If other states use the NICS system successfully without any untoward consequences upon public safety, then Hawaii ought to adapt the same system, as no benefit is gained by making previously registered owners wait any period of time, much less 14 to 20 days.

3. Hawaii currently has the longest waiting period (14 to 21 days) of any state having waiting periods. There is no evidence that any waiting period, much less one of two to three week duration has any positive effect on crime rates of any kind.

4. As stated in Silvester v. Harris (UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT, EASTERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA, CASE NO. 1:11CV-2137 AWI SAB
[http://ia600803.us.archive.org/13/items/gov.uscourts.caed.233362/gov.uscourts.caed.233362.44.0.pdf]
by Judge Ishii, "[Therefore,] the Court concludes that the WPL [Waiting Period Law] burdens the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms." And "Additionally, as applied to individuals who already own a gun, the Court has great difficulty envisioning how the “cooling off” rationale could pass the appropriate level of scrutiny. If an individual already possess a firearm, then nothing about this rationale would prevent that individual from acting on a sudden impulse to commit gun violence with the gun already in his or her possession." Judge Ishii also ruled that the justification for the California 10 day waiting period in order to perform an adequate background check was likely unconstitutional.

Thus, no public safety issue is served by the Hawaii waiting period to purchase a firearm, especially for prior registered owners, so the provision of SB2050 to eliminate this waiting period of 14 to 20 days for prior registered owners ought to be enacted as law. Other states have background checks that can be done instantly using the NICS system and have no public safety problems as a result.

SB2050 is rational, logical, and has all the evidence on its side. The current law requiring already registered firearm owners to wait 2 to 3 weeks to purchase another firearm is irrational, illogical, and has no evidence to support any kind of public safety efficacy. Please do the law-abiding gun owners of Hawaii, and the Constitution(s) of the United States (and Hawaii) a service and move SB2050 out of committee for consideration by the full legislature.

thank you,

[punaperson]

[Oh, needless to say, they never even allowed the bill to be heard, much less heard testimony, much less voted on it, much less passed it out of committee... they don't need no stinking Constitution!]

mauidog

Re: California Gun Waiting Period Laws Ruled Unconstitutional
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2014, 02:13:52 PM »
I see a couple of holes in the mechanics involved. 

First, as we discussed in other threads, there is no requirement nor process for "unregistering" a gun that might be transferred out of state.  In that situation, there would be a registered gun on file with the state of Hawaii, but in fact, the supposed owner no longer has possession. 

So, if the former gun-owner now wants a new gun, does he have to demonstrate he still owns said registered firearm to avoid a wait, or is simply having a registration on file considered sufficient?

Just wondering...
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

punaperson

Re: California Gun Waiting Period Laws Ruled Unconstitutional
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2014, 02:39:50 PM »
I see a couple of holes in the mechanics involved. 

First, as we discussed in other threads, there is no requirement nor process for "unregistering" a gun that might be transferred out of state.  In that situation, there would be a registered gun on file with the state of Hawaii, but in fact, the supposed owner no longer has possession. 

So, if the former gun-owner now wants a new gun, does he have to demonstrate he still owns said registered firearm to avoid a wait, or is simply having a registration on file considered sufficient?

Just wondering...
I'm sure that the legislature, if and when required to by the courts, will, using their profound knowledge of firearms issues and respect for the Constitutions (of the U.S. and Hawaii), craft and pass a law that is perfectly rational, based upon clear evidence, and reflects the experience of the vast majority of other states in the Union. In other words, NICS instant check, pay, go home with gun. Right?  :shaka:

nathanm14fan

Re: California Gun Waiting Period Laws Ruled Unconstitutional
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2014, 08:42:20 PM »
....
Thus, no public safety issue is served by the Hawaii waiting period to purchase a firearm, especially for prior registered owners, so the provision of SB2050 to eliminate this waiting period of 14 to 20 days for prior registered owners ought to be enacted as law. Other states have background checks that can be done instantly using the NICS system and have no public safety problems as a result.
....

What is ironic to me is that we have the 14 day waiting period, but just like CA, we use NICS for the background check, per HRS 134-2, subsection E. Unlike CA's electronic system done at point-of-sale (background check and registration), we have the stupid permitting system, because of course in Hawaii you have to be "permitted" by the gods (county chiefs of police) to exercise your 2A rights. Sad considering that Hawaii's 2A is identical to the U.S Consitution's, while CA doesn't even have a state-level 2A.

BLKDRGN

Judge strikes down Cali law for gun purchase waiting period
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2014, 09:31:58 PM »
Federal judge strikes down California gun purchase waiting period in some cases. Basically if you are already a gun owner, passed a background check, and those who have a permit or certificate to own a gun, they don't have to wait the 10 day waiting period. First time buyers have to wait. Can we use this judgement as reference down here to challenge our 14 day waiting period?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/08/25/federal-judge-strikes-down-california-gun-purchase-waiting-period-in-some-cases/
Google it cause every question is a dumb question.

Q

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« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2014, 09:40:03 PM »
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« Last Edit: December 17, 2016, 11:11:13 PM by Q »

mauidog

Re: Judge strikes down Cali law for gun purchase waiting period
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2014, 09:42:43 PM »
California Gun Waiting Period Laws Ruled Unconstitutional

https://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=16193.0
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

punaperson

Re: California Gun Waiting Period Laws Ruled Unconstitutional
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2014, 09:48:59 AM »
Judge Ishii denies California Attorney General Kamala Harris's (who last week was denied her request to intervene in Peruta) request for a stay on the ruling that California's 10-day waiting period is unconstitutional for individuals already owning a firearm.

http://onlygunsandmoney.blogspot.com/2014/11/sorry-kamala-no-stay-for-you.html

Sorry Kamala, No Stay For You

Excerpt:

California Attorney General Kamala Harris had sought a stay of Judge Anthony Ishii's decision in Sylvester v. Harris. That was the case that challenged California's 10-day waiting period as it applied to certain individuals. Her argument in a nutshell was "Hey, this is gonna cost us some bucks, we need to hire some folks to comply, I don't see how we can comply within in a year, and you know we really have more important stuff to do."

Telling a judge you have more important stuff to do than to comply with his order really isn't the smartest thing in the world to do as Kamala and her minions found out. Judge Ishii, said in his best judge-speak, "dude, don't give me that sh*@".

http://onlygunsandmoney.blogspot.com/2014/11/sorry-kamala-no-stay-for-you.html

****

Also includes links to the decision itself and the Calguns article with more detail about the case.

eyeeatingfish

Re: California Gun Waiting Period Laws Ruled Unconstitutional
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2014, 09:27:50 AM »
Her argument in a nutshell was "Hey, this is gonna cost us some bucks, we need to hire some folks to comply, I don't see how we can comply within in a year, and you know we really have more important stuff to do."

Not to mention it is rather stupid to claim that you need extra money to do less work! Complying with the ruling really requires just letting gun stores know they don't have to wait anymore.

Heavies

Re: California Gun Waiting Period Laws Ruled Unconstitutional
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2014, 09:40:57 AM »