Assualt Pistol Flow Chart (Read 8844 times)

suka

Assualt Pistol Flow Chart
« on: October 31, 2014, 09:23:52 AM »
Here is a flow chart to simplify things about the "assault pistol" regulations.




« Last Edit: October 31, 2014, 10:47:20 AM by 2aHawaii »

eyeeatingfish

Re: Assualt Pistol Flow Chart
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2014, 12:13:07 PM »
Thankyou for the graphic but honestly I was more confused by that than just reading the law hehe.
Also, what is C&R supposed to mean?

suka

Re: Assualt Pistol Flow Chart
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2014, 12:17:49 PM »
Thankyou for the graphic but honestly I was more confused by that than just reading the law hehe.
Also, what is C&R supposed to mean?

Curio & Relic 
[18 U.S.C 27 CFR 478.11]

Tom_G

Re: Assualt Pistol Flow Chart
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2014, 12:50:52 PM »
So, as long as it has a barrel over 16", a pistol with a magazine that attaches outside the grip, has a threaded barrel, a barrel shroud, weights over 50 oz, is a centerfire, and is a semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm is legal?
The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.

suka

Re: Assualt Pistol Flow Chart
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2014, 12:54:21 PM »
So, as long as it has a barrel over 16", a pistol with a magazine that attaches outside the grip, has a threaded barrel, a barrel shroud, weights over 50 oz, is a centerfire, and is a semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm is legal?
but does not include a firearm with a barrel sixteen or more inches in length

suka

Re: Assualt Pistol Flow Chart
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2014, 02:30:55 PM »
Basically , you get a dorky rifle without a stock or a SIG brace.

Hermit

Re: Assualt Pistol Flow Chart
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2014, 04:51:59 AM »
 :worship: This should be stickied. What would this register under? A pistol? And does it have to be registered with the upper already included?  ???

Edit: I can almost taste it.  :popcorn:

suka

Re: Assualt Pistol Flow Chart
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2014, 03:49:56 PM »
Any firearm, that has never had a stock installed is a handgun regardless of barrel length or other features. As defined by BATF, a handgun is designed to be fired with "one" hand.

If a handgun is designed to be fired with both hands (vertical foregrip) , it is no longer a title I firearm, and is subject to taxation under NFA as an AOW.

A rifle has a stock and is designed to be shouldered.

smashpwnage

Re: Assualt Pistol Flow Chart
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2018, 06:35:39 PM »
So as long as i fix my magazine in place, none of the 6 requirements matter? and I could keep it semi auto?

suka

Re: Assualt Pistol Flow Chart
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2018, 08:11:20 PM »
So as long as i fix my magazine in place, none of the 6 requirements matter? and I could keep it semi auto?

yes

smashpwnage

Re: Assualt Pistol Flow Chart
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2018, 03:59:10 PM »
yes

Hawaii state law prohibits greater than 10 round detachable pistol magazines (including rifle magazines capable of use in any pistol, such as the AR-15/M16, AK, M1 carbine, H&K carbine, Thompson, and aftermarket Ruger .22 magazines) unless blocked to hold 10 rounds or less and “not readily restorable.” Possession of illegal magazines is a misdemeanor, one count per magazine, and possession of a handgun with one inserted is a class C felony. There is much debate among gun owners, law enforcement, and dealers over the interpretation of this portion of the statutes when rifle magazines which fit handguns are considered, and the prohibition is generally not enforced.

so, could i attach a mag greater than 10 round cap?

suka

Re: Assualt Pistol Flow Chart
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2018, 04:12:36 PM »
yes
 pistol with 30rd magazines have been made, stay with the 20rd mags as they are easier to clean.

smashpwnage

Re: Assualt Pistol Flow Chart
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2018, 01:40:36 PM »
yes
 pistol with 30rd magazines have been made, stay with the 20rd mags as they are easier to clean.

i've searched and seems like there is no definition for "detachable". how permanent does the magazine need to be? would a bullet button filled with epoxy work?

Tom_G

Re: Assualt Pistol Flow Chart
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2018, 06:28:12 PM »
Looking at this necro'd chart... any pistol that is not semi-automatic is not an assault pistol. So a fully-automatic pistol would not be classified as an assault pistol (provided Pistol = y, C&R = no, and BBL>16 = no, of course).

Also, the point of attachment of the detachable magazine is irrelevant, at least according the the chart.
The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.

rpoL98

Re: Assualt Pistol Flow Chart
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2018, 01:26:24 PM »
i've searched and seems like there is no definition for "detachable". how permanent does the magazine need to be?
welded, usually TIG-welded, not JB-weld.

6716J

Re: Assualt Pistol Flow Chart
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2018, 04:23:33 PM »
welded, usually TIG-welded, not JB-weld.

I am still waiting on the written policy from HPD on having to weld it. The statute only states "detachable". Any verbal statement from HPD on the welding of the magazine to the lower is void without written policy from the AGs office or written into the statute itself.

So I would just bring your stripped lower with cheapo magazine and bullet button installed to HPD to register it as a pistol. When asked where all the internals are, tell the truth... Its being built as a pistol without a detachable magazine. Have the below statutes with you as legal basis. Now if they decide to confiscate your lower that hopefully you purchased for about $50, you have grounds to bring suit against HPD for theft of a firearm (Federal crime - call the AG & ATF, they took your firearm without your permission and get the officers name and badge#) and denial of rights under statute. JUST BE VERY, VERY POLITE AND COURTEOUS. You don't want to get arrested for being belligerent. Say thank you and walk out the door and go forth and file suit should you so choose.  (Remember, this is not legal advice, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express. Your mileage may vary)

California (in the 9th Circuit) and Maryland definitions of “detachable magazine” are included below.
a.   California, Title 11, Division 5, Chapter 39, Department of Justice Regulations for Assault Weapons and Large Capacity Magazines. ARTICLE 2. DEFINITIONS OF TERMS USED TO IDENTIFY ASSAULT WEAPONS The following definitions apply to terms used in the identification of assault weapons pursuant to Penal Code section 12276.1: (a) "detachable magazine" means any ammunition feeding device that can be removed readily from the firearm with neither disassembly of the firearm action nor use of a tool being required. A bullet or ammunition cartridge is considered a tool. Ammunition feeding device includes any belted or linked ammunition, but does not include clips, en bloc clips, or stripper clips that load cartridges into the magazine.
b.   Maryland, MD Code, Criminal Law, § 4-301: Definitions - Detachable magazine: (f) “Detachable magazine” means an ammunition feeding device that can be removed readily from a firearm without requiring disassembly of the firearm action or without the use of a tool, including a bullet or cartridge.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.

6716J

Re: Assualt Pistol Flow Chart
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2018, 02:25:52 PM »
http://www.honolulupd.org/department/index.php

See HPC complaint form. Click on "commission" tab.

Maybe we want to submit these and our complaint is with the chief and all prior chiefs for denying all permits?

Form location:  http://www.honolulupd.org/downloads/HPC15_R05-11.pdf

From the Young v Hawaii thread but pertinent to pistol construction
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.

London808

Re: Assualt Pistol Flow Chart
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2018, 11:16:33 PM »
I am still waiting on the written policy from HPD on having to weld it. The statute only states "detachable". Any verbal statement from HPD on the welding of the magazine to the lower is void without written policy from the AGs office or written into the statute itself.

So I would just bring your stripped lower with cheapo magazine and bullet button installed to HPD to register it as a pistol. When asked where all the internals are, tell the truth... Its being built as a pistol without a detachable magazine. Have the below statutes with you as legal basis. Now if they decide to confiscate your lower that hopefully you purchased for about $50, you have grounds to bring suit against HPD for theft of a firearm (Federal crime - call the AG & ATF, they took your firearm without your permission and get the officers name and badge#) and denial of rights under statute. JUST BE VERY, VERY POLITE AND COURTEOUS. You don't want to get arrested for being belligerent. Say thank you and walk out the door and go forth and file suit should you so choose.  (Remember, this is not legal advice, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express. Your mileage may vary)

California (in the 9th Circuit) and Maryland definitions of “detachable magazine” are included below.
a.   California, Title 11, Division 5, Chapter 39, Department of Justice Regulations for Assault Weapons and Large Capacity Magazines. ARTICLE 2. DEFINITIONS OF TERMS USED TO IDENTIFY ASSAULT WEAPONS The following definitions apply to terms used in the identification of assault weapons pursuant to Penal Code section 12276.1: (a) "detachable magazine" means any ammunition feeding device that can be removed readily from the firearm with neither disassembly of the firearm action nor use of a tool being required. A bullet or ammunition cartridge is considered a tool. Ammunition feeding device includes any belted or linked ammunition, but does not include clips, en bloc clips, or stripper clips that load cartridges into the magazine.
b.   Maryland, MD Code, Criminal Law, § 4-301: Definitions - Detachable magazine: (f) “Detachable magazine” means an ammunition feeding device that can be removed readily from a firearm without requiring disassembly of the firearm action or without the use of a tool, including a bullet or cartridge.

Go look for my post on this matter it has both an answer from HPD and the AG, basically there is no ruling on what detachable means, as such they can arrest you for anything and it’s up to you to prove your innocents.
"Mr. Roberts is a bit of a fanatic, he has previously sued HPD about gun registration issues." : Major Richard Robinson 2016

6716J

Re: Assualt Pistol Flow Chart
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2018, 10:35:22 AM »
Go look for my post on this matter it has both an answer from HPD and the AG, basically there is no ruling on what detachable means, as such they can arrest you for anything and it’s up to you to prove your innocents.

Lovely... guilty until proven innocent. The PRHi... :grrr:

They refuse to answer the question in order to be ambiguous and be able to make it up as they go along.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.

punaperson

Re: Assualt Pistol Flow Chart
« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2018, 10:52:34 AM »
Lovely... guilty until proven innocent. The PRHi... :grrr:

They refuse to answer the question in order to be ambiguous and be able to make it up as they go along.
You should read the obfuscating non-answers I've gotten back from the Office of the Corporation Counsel (even though I actually wrote solely to Chief Ferreira) about the "multiburst trigger activator" law. Nothing but snide garbage. And no answers to the actual questions I asked. No surprise. That's their SOP.

There was one surprise. They actually did answer my question regarding how many such devices have been confiscated or voluntarily turned in Hawaii County: NONE.

I want to ask them about the cops that I have "heard" own actual manufactured "bump stocks" (as opposed to the ordinary objects that fulfill the literal legal definition as written in the law), but I don't want to get anyone in trouble about those... even cops who break the law on this issue.

 :stopjack: