I do not think the local populace understands that training areas in the state of Hawaii are very limited to our armed forces as well.  On a good note, I really enjoyed shooting at the Schofield Rod and Gun Club at Schofield Barracks.  They have a good grasp of the rules and regulations.  I was impressed when they ran the range.  I felt at home, even though we are stationed in the mainland.  As for KOA Services, I hear they are pretty good outfit as well.  Wayne has a good reputation on the East Coast.  We frequented a federal training facility and the lead weapons instructor had nothing but good things to say about him.

I guess that you haven't read the full thread on KOA Services in some of the previous threads. There is also mention of KGS in there.

http://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=543.0

I think it is rather weird that our US military has to pay for outside instruction for firearms instruction. Akin to NASCAR seeking driving school instructors. I guess it was a long time ago that the US mil would breed its own set of experts - one of them is Carlos Hathcock. The Army has its own set of marksmanship instructors at the Army Marksmanship Unit.  Their soldiers are picked from across the spectrum - spec ops to pure bred competitive shooters. They know what they are doing.  The AMU is a resource that is not well-known to commanders and not fully exploited.  Perhaps it is easier to put out a bid or request for proposal for firearms instruction. 
Then all these so-called "experts" emerge out of the woodwork.  While I recognize real operators like Larry Vickers and the like, I don't see equivalent credentials or experience by our local "experts".  What is the purpose of doing pushups on an AK? And why would a civilian albeit in his / her daily routine ever come across a defensive scenario where you would use a doctrine like FM 7-8?

Ren - you are speaking the truth when it comes to outside instruction.  I do not want to go to into certain programs for OPSEC reasons, but some units are not afforded the opportunity to train with the AMU, because of OPTEMPO and I am referring to "Big Army” missions.  AMU will come down to unit but they can’t be every unfortunately.  We had the opportunity to play with them during one of their coveted 3 gun matches a while ago.  It was humbling.
Carlos Hathcok is an outstand Marine.  He had 93 confirmed kills and taught some of our Marines how to improve their marksmanship capability.  In order for us to get that kind of instruction we have to higher guys like Jeff Gonzales (Trident Concepts), or Larry Vicker (Vicker Tactical) to come out and share their skill sets.  They got smart and started charging the government for their skill sets in my opinion. 
I will tell you how much MAGPULL DYNAMIC wannabes we have encountered over the years.  It takes years and dedication to become a true commando.  Dressing up in kit and buying the latest and great gun will not make you a commando.  Unfortunately, guys play with Barbie too and it’s called guns and tactical gear.  Think about.  If MAGPULL comes out with the next greatest thing we have to buy it.  It’s a behavior but you know what I mean.  I am no different so there it is Brother.
Larry Vickers is a great American and a true "Operator".  We were fortunate to take some instruction from him when he first started his company.  It was a good experience.
I have not been in Hawaii for very long, but I hear that it has its own type of so-called "experts" as well.  Unfortunately, we have them in the mainland as well too. 
I looked up Kaneohe Gun Shop.  I saw the pics of the fells conducting "Team Tactics”.  From a novice point of view it’s really neat to see it come together after a two/three day class.  I really do not know why anyone would teach Infantry Platoon and Squad Tactics 101 (FM 7-8).  It takes time and discipline to build a decent combat unit.  Besides, who you goanna train with after you leave the class, unless you plan to use your family as a fire team.  Unless you have some private land and are in a militia.  Just kidding, but it actually happens.
More Training Please:  Some not so famous weapons instructors use doctrine from FM 7-8 as a way to validate their training methods.   7-8 has picture too so it makes it even easier.  So here’s the rub.  INF unit’s train to act on their own within the limits of the mission and commanders intent.  Non Credible instructor will choreograph the students moments so they do not have to think.  They just react, shoot, complete the team drill. 
The best example of this type of B.S. drill is when an instructor teaches the students to walk in a 90 degree direction while engaging the target from their side.  Yep its technique but it’s not practical.  I could go into more detail but I do not want to boor you to death. 
Bottom Line:  Be careful of instructor who talks too much.  They are stalling and need an audience to fill their ego/time.   If they cannot hit the target on demand then they are not worth your time.  “You tube” helped to create some of these so called “expect instructors”.
Save you money, do your research and try your best to vet the instructor before throwing down some serious coin.  Your time and money isn’t cheap and it is usually never refundable. 

I guess that you haven't read the full thread on KOA Services in some of the previous threads. There is also mention of KGS in there.

http://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=543.0

Well I am not goin to quesion you Teichi, but when guys like JJ Racaza (TOP Shots) speak highly of him I can not argue that. 

I am simply saying he has a good reputaion in the states.  He may have made a bad dession, but I am not his parents.

Wayne burned his bridges with our club and the Marine Corps. KGS and Koa services are related and are after the same goal - $$$.
They spit in the faces of their hosts. 

Well Ren, I appreciate your honesty, and I suppose it is what it is.  So sorry for your club,  hopefully you guys have recovered.

Quote from: Teichi on August 01, 2011, 09:57:46 AM

I guess that you haven't read the full thread on KOA Services in some of the previous threads. There is also mention of KGS in there.

http://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=543.0

Well I am not goin to quesion you Teichi, but when guys like JJ Racaza (TOP Shots) speak highly of him I can not argue that. 

I am simply saying he has a good reputaion in the states.  He may have made a bad dession, but I am not his parents.

Tactical, Hawaii is a very small place and there are a lot of different cliques here.  Some things get taken wrong and somethings don't get handled well (as it would seem after reading your ISPC thread).

I just find it interesting that all this stuff goes on and a lot of people who are supposed to be adults act like kids.

Quote from: Tactical Pretenders on August 01, 2011, 11:26:18 AM

Quote from: Teichi on August 01, 2011, 09:57:46 AM

I guess that you haven't read the full thread on KOA Services in some of the previous threads. There is also mention of KGS in there.

http://2ahawaii.com/index.php?topic=543.0

Well I am not goin to quesion you Teichi, but when guys like JJ Racaza (TOP Shots) speak highly of him I can not argue that. 

I am simply saying he has a good reputaion in the states.  He may have made a bad dession, but I am not his parents.

Tactical, Hawaii is a very small place and there are a lot of different cliques here.  Some things get taken wrong and somethings don't get handled well (as it would seem after reading your ISPC thread).

I just find it interesting that all this stuff goes on and a lot of people who are supposed to be adults act like kids.

I have to agree with your assessment.  I believe that can be detrimental in any shooting venues.  It’s like the "have" and "have not" syndrome or kid vs adult mentality.  For example,   a place to shoot.  Let’s face it.  How often will you be able to deter a violent encounter if you do not train and practice countering an aggressors "violence of action".  Hawaii’s shooting range is very restrictive and it is what it is.  I really feel for you all at KHSC.  It is a beautiful range but I see that the public is limited to its potential.  I bet the local LEO can use it in real life mode.
What I saw at that match was appalling in my opinion.  I do not want to name the organization but it seemed like they were also frustrated at how they had to transport their stage props to the range.  I noticed a conned in the one of the bays.  I thought it had belonged to the club.  Unfortunately it belonged to another organization that uses the property as well.  It does seem very cliques and something is not right/fair.
Another thing that can get really ugly is the leadership of the club when it comes to how the rules are presented, favoritism for allowing multiple gun use, who is scoring, are the ROs yelling at the patrons, are the members taking verbal abuse from the club leadership because they have no place to shoot, are the ROs clowning around during the match,  and how many shooters claim to good when they cannot even complete a clean reload for time. 
Unfortunately, these things happen here in the mainland.  Unlike Hawaii, we are able to drive to the next county to shoot in match if the local ones suck and vice versa.  I feel for you.  I saw some talent at the match but I do not believe they would fare well against novice IPSC shooter here.  I mean no disrespect but it is what it is. 
I once spoke to Dave Dawson of Dawson Precision.  I asked him about the IPSC competitors in Hawaii.  He did not say much since he sends guns and parts to retailer on the island.  Being the professional that he is I had already formed an idea.
Keep your head up Hawaii TAC-Shooters.  When OGC opens their indoor  range I am sure they will bring in quality instructors to the island.

We could have the best instructors, and we have the great facilities for it.  People just don't stand up to fight for anything.

We could have the best instructors, and we have the great facilities for it.  People just don't stand up to fight for anything.

Funtimes, why is it so?  Why does nobody on the island take a stand against the local goverment?  Please enlighten us.  Keep in mind I only attended a club match and an open shoot in Central Oahu.  My exposure is somewaht limited.

Don't know really. Maybe it's just the asian culture I'm thinking. It seems to be a very isolationist attitude.  Take a look at the testimony for bills that went through this year; I bet I am the only "pro" gun one you will find, and I think it was on one of the taser bills supporting alcohol investigators.

Don't know really. Maybe it's just the asian culture I'm thinking. It seems to be a very isolationist attitude.  Take a look at the testimony for bills that went through this year; I bet I am the only "pro" gun one you will find, and I think it was on one of the taser bills supporting alcohol investigators.

That is an Interesting point of view.  Can you expound on what you mean by the Asian Cultures attitudes?  I do not understand.  Please let us know you thoughts.  You seem like a well educated individual, who knows Hawaii State Law.

A long time ago there was a collaboration of some sort. Action shooting and highpower were done hand-in-hand at Puuloa...till an action shooter shot himself in the leg.
FT what do you mena by "asian culture"?

As an asian, I know what FT means. There's a reason why, say, Japan, has a lower crime rate compared to a similarly populated country/city. We all know it's not because they ban guns, like the anti's try to claim. There's a reason why Japan's citizens didn't go nuts and loot and rape and murder everyone after the tsunami. It's just a fundamental difference in culture compared to western culture. Until recently, Japanese was the most prevalent ethnicity in Hawaii. We lost to the Filipinos 

Today's society tries to make everyone politically correct and make you ignore the difference between ethnicity, but differences exist and are undeniable. It's just a matter of analyzing it in a controlled manner.

Just wanted to drop that by.

 

As an asian, I know what FT means. There's a reason why, say, Japan, has a lower crime rate compared to a similarly populated country/city. We all know it's not because they ban guns, like the anti's try to claim. There's a reason why Japan's citizens didn't go nuts and loot and rape and murder everyone after the tsunami. It's just a fundamental difference in culture compared to western culture. Until recently, Japanese was the most prevalent ethnicity in Hawaii. We lost to the Filipinos 

Today's society tries to make everyone politically correct and make you ignore the difference between ethnicity, but differences exist and are undeniable. It's just a matter of analyzing it in a controlled manner.

Just wanted to drop that by.

 

And all this time I thought the Portagees were the prevalent ethnicity.   

How did da Potagee kill da bird?

He wen trow um off da cliff.

 

Quote from: Funtimes on August 02, 2011, 01:58:07 AM

We could have the best instructors, and we have the great facilities for it.  People just don't stand up to fight for anything.

Funtimes, why is it so?  Why does nobody on the island take a stand against the local goverment?  Please enlighten us.  Keep in mind I only attended a club match and an open shoot in Central Oahu.  My exposure is somewaht limited.

There have been efforts in the past.  Again as mentioned earlier, Hawaii is very slow to change and the old boy political network while IMO aren't as strong as they used to be, is still in place.

As mentioned with that gentleman on the Big Island pursuing CCW, it would have been a great time for the NRA, HRA, local clubs to support him, but it's tough to fight the monetary resources and closed minds in the government.  It takes money and backing and that guy got neither.  Unfortunately if he had come forward to the local/national organizations earlier/at all he might have stood a better chance.

Don't know really. Maybe it's just the asian culture I'm thinking. It seems to be a very isolationist attitude.  Take a look at the testimony for bills that went through this year; I bet I am the only "pro" gun one you will find, and I think it was on one of the taser bills supporting alcohol investigators.

Asian culture means you are basically reserved and respect those in authority. 

The 2nd amendment was not an individual right at the time he filed the suit.  Oddly enough, I had spoken with him back in October of 2010 and he had intended to file again.


Gzire and Dregs hit it spot on... reserved and respectful of elders / authority.

How did da Potagee kill da bird?

He wen trow um off da cliff.

 

Ooooh another Portagee joke eh?

You know how many portuguese jokes there are?




None, they're all true stories.

Hahaha