Rimless handgun cartridges (Read 17619 times)

Tom_G

Rimless handgun cartridges
« on: January 26, 2015, 07:21:17 PM »
Off the top of my head:
.45 acp
.40 S&W
9x19
.380 acp
.25 acp

What else is out there?  Contemporary, obsolete, or wildcat. Colt or not.
The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.

Kingkeoni

Re: Rimless handgun cartridges
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2015, 07:37:42 PM »
32acp
357 Sig,
10mm,
5.7x28,
45 gap
Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

oldfart

Re: Rimless handgun cartridges
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2015, 07:40:48 PM »
9x21
9x23
9x25
38-45 clerke
44 auto mag
45 win mag
What, Me Worry?

Inspector

Re: Rimless handgun cartridges
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2015, 07:43:17 PM »
Off the top of my head:
.45 acp
.40 S&W
9x19
.380 acp
.25 acp

What else is out there?  Contemporary, obsolete, or wildcat. Colt or not.
Actually Tom, I think the 25 ACP and 380 ACP are considered semi rimmed. Correct me if I am wrong.
357 Sig
50 AE in Desert Eagle
223/5.56/300 BLK in AR Pistols
SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

Inspector

Re: Rimless handgun cartridges
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2015, 07:44:40 PM »
32acp
357 Sig,
10mm,
5.7x28,
45 gap
I think the 32 ACP is considered semi rimmed.
SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

Kingkeoni

Re: Rimless handgun cartridges
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2015, 08:05:27 PM »
I think the 32 ACP is considered semi rimmed.

Your glasses are semi rimmed.  :geekdanc:
Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

oldfart

Re: Rimless handgun cartridges
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2015, 08:18:33 PM »
So what is the point of this exercise?
What, Me Worry?

Inspector

Re: Rimless handgun cartridges
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2015, 08:22:13 PM »
Your glasses are semi rimmed.  :geekdanc:
And my wife calls me paranoid.  :rofl: :shake: :shake:
SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

Tom_G

Re: Rimless handgun cartridges
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2015, 08:47:03 PM »
So what is the point of this exercise?

Research.  I'm in the market for another revolver, something that uses rimless (or semi-rimmed) ammo and is designed for moon clips.  I've already got a .45 acp, looking for something a bit more daily carry ish. 
The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.

Tom_G

Re: Rimless handgun cartridges
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2015, 08:47:41 PM »
Actually Tom, I think the 25 ACP and 380 ACP are considered semi rimmed. Correct me if I am wrong.

Not wrong.  Just close enough.
The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.

230RN

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Re: Rimless handgun cartridges
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2015, 09:55:57 PM »
The .38 Super is also semi-rimmed.

The .45 AR is rimmed.

(I'm still waiting for someone to come out with 9mm rimmed cartridges for that 9mm revolver.)

And the .45 GAP has a rebated rim...   I guess that makes it less than rimless.   :rofl:

IIRC, the Gyrojet "cartridge" has no extraction provisions at all, but I don't think you're in the market for one, rimless or not.



Terry

REF(s):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Auto_Rim
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyrojet
« Last Edit: January 26, 2015, 10:10:47 PM by 230RN »
I do believe that the radical and crazy notion that the Founders meant what they said, is gradually soaking through the judicial system.

oldfart

Re: Rimless handgun cartridges
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2015, 09:59:27 PM »
Research.  I'm in the market for another revolver, something that uses rimless (or semi-rimmed) ammo and is designed for moon clips.  I've already got a .45 acp, looking for something a bit more daily carry ish.
...
Somebody please explain what is the attraction of running a rimless cartridge in a revolver.
I'm not catching on to something here.
what is the problem with good old 38 specials?
What, Me Worry?

Tom_G

Re: Rimless handgun cartridges
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2015, 10:03:42 PM »
It's a shame no one has revisited the .25 and upgraded it.  A slim profile like that with a longer cartridge... think of the ammo capacity!
The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.

Tom_G

Re: Rimless handgun cartridges
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2015, 10:05:03 PM »
...
Somebody please explain what is the attraction of running a rimless cartridge in a revolver.
I'm not catching on to something here.
what is the problem with good old 38 specials?

Moon clips.  That's it for me.  Just moon clips.  Infinitely superior to speed loaders.  And, yes, you technically can mill out a revolver to accept moon clips on a rimmed cartridge, but without that groove, the clip can slide.
The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.

Kingkeoni

Re: Rimless handgun cartridges
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2015, 10:05:31 PM »
It's a shame no one has revisited the .25 and upgraded it.  A slim profile like that with a longer cartridge... think of the ammo capacity!

The .25 is in my opinion the most useless handgun cartridge out there.

I'm amazed that it's even still around.
Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

talula

Re: Rimless handgun cartridges
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2015, 10:16:33 PM »
22 TCM
Every ones a good person. You just might be catching them in a bad time of their life.

230RN

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Re: Rimless handgun cartridges
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2015, 05:38:26 AM »
...
Somebody please explain what is the attraction of running a rimless cartridge in a revolver.
I'm not catching on to something here.
what is the problem with good old 38 specials?

Availability of either the guns or the ammo.

I'm running on memory here, so feel free to correct me.  Some time ago, like maybe WWI, there was a shortage of 1911s, and as a stopgap measure, revolvers were modified to accept the .45ACP rimless cartridges, which of course headspace on the mouth.  Both Colt and Smith and Wesson redesigned (or re-cut the chambers) of standard revolvers to headspace the .45ACP on their rims (mouths, sorry) , but ran into the usual problem of extraction, hence the use of moon clips for the .45ACP cartridge, with the cylinders cut down to make room for the moon clips. 

I had one of these M1917s in the Colt model, and I'm sorry I ever got rid of it.  These were, if I recall correctly, "limited standard" issue for the troops.  Soon after, that the .45AR cartridge was developed for these guns, this being the same cartridge as the .45ACP, but having very thick rims so that the regular extractor would be effective on the cartridges without having to use the moon clips.  I believe several types of the British .455 Webley revolvers were also modified to the same kind of "limited standard" to accept .45 ACP.

Recently, with the ready availability of the 9mm cartridge, I believe it was Smith and Wesson who designed a revolver to accept these "nines," again using moon clips of several types, including two-round clips and six-round clips.  I forget the model number, which is why I was vague in my previous posts.  Presumably, their marketing department figured there would be a substantial market for a revolver which used the plentiful 9s.

That's the way I understand it in terms of an overview, but feel free to correct me in some of the details.  After all, some folks simply prefer revolvers over autos.  I myself am comfortable with both types.

And I tell you true, I really regret parting with that M1917 revolver in .45ACP and .45AR.  I used to load those .45 ARs up pretty hot, and used 255 grain Colt .45 bullets in it.  That's why I said I was waiting for someone to come out with a 9mm rimmed version for that new 9mm revolver.

Terry, 230RN

Edited for word correction:  "rims" to "mouths."
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 01:42:41 PM by 230RN »
I do believe that the radical and crazy notion that the Founders meant what they said, is gradually soaking through the judicial system.

Inspector

Re: Rimless handgun cartridges
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2015, 08:04:47 AM »
Terry,

Are you referring to the S&W 547? It is a 9mm revolver that doesn't require moon clips. Designed for sale to Israel. But the sale never happened. Interesting history on that revolver. My 547 shoots VERY well still.

Oldfart,

The interest for me in revolvers that shoot 9mm was originally for carry purposes. My thoughts are that the 9mm performs better out of a short barrel than a 38. The problem for me is that all 9mm revolvers are modified 38's. Not taking advantage of being able to make the cylinder and frame smaller (lighter) due to the compactness of the cartridge over the 38. But please see the thread about the Korth 9mm revolver. It is the first revolver that seems to be designed around the 9mm cartridge being a smaller and lighter revolver/cylinder than a 38 revolver but with the same or more power. In my opinion the perfect carry gun. The other interest for me is in having something that is a bit different than everyone else. I own two 9mm revolvers and I love them both. If I had the money I would buy more 9mm revolvers.

Tom,

If you are looking at rimless cartridge revolvers then I would consider a 9mm as it has the best compromise between power and size/compactness/lightness IMHO. I would look seriously at the Ruger LCR, Charter Arms Bulldog, and the aforementioned Korth. The S&W Performance Center has some nice guns as well but they are based on larger frames. If size/weight are not a concern then Ruger built the Security Six/Speed Six in 9mm and they can still be found on Gun Broker. Another 9mm revolver was the Ruger SP101. They no longer make them but you can still pick them up on Gun Broker. I used to have one and got rid of it. I didn't care how it shot. My nephew has one and asked me if I wanted it. I am thinking about it. But if size/weight are not a concern then I would consider a 45 instead.

SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

Inspector

Re: Rimless handgun cartridges
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2015, 08:43:10 AM »
Research.  I'm in the market for another revolver, something that uses rimless (or semi-rimmed) ammo and is designed for moon clips.  I've already got a .45 acp, looking for something a bit more daily carry ish.
Tom,

Is this the only reason you are looking for rimless cartridges? If so I think you are asking the wrong question. I believe the 38/357 Magnum, 44 Special/Magnum and 45 Colt cartridges are all rimmed and can be used with full moon clips! My S&W 627 from thee Performance Center is an 8 shot 357 Magnum revolver that has a cylinder cut to accept full moon clips. It even came with a few full moon clips. And I believe some revolvers such as the S&W 686 can have its cylinder cut to accept full moon clips.

The above mentioned revolver cartridges all have a groove in the case right about the rim. All can lend themselves to use full moon clips.

I hope this helps!
SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

new guy

Re: Rimless handgun cartridges
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2015, 09:07:57 AM »
.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2016, 06:45:54 PM by new guy »
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