EXCLUSIVE: Common AR-15 Green Tip Ammunition Already Banned in New ATF Regulation Guide

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2015/03/06/exclusive-atf-has-already-banned-common-at15-green-tip-ammunition-n1966761

I was reading the article and it seems the ATF defines the round by the paint color on the tip.....so what if manufacturers didn't put the green paint on.  "Well you said M855 has green paint on the tip, and these rounds here don't have green paint so therefore they're legal.  Suck it Trabeck!"     I'm no lawyer but if the ATF "banned" the round by not exempting it on it's 2014 guide, then wouldn't that make anyone who bought that particular round in 2014 a "criminal"?  I"m pretty sure there's something in law that says you can't pass a law which retroactively makes someone a criminal.

I was reading the article and it seems the ATF defines the round by the paint color on the tip.....so what if manufacturers didn't put the green paint on.  "Well you said M855 has green paint on the tip, and these rounds here don't have green paint so therefore they're legal.  Suck it Trabeck!"     I'm no lawyer but if the ATF "banned" the round by not exempting it on it's 2014 guide, then wouldn't that make anyone who bought that particular round in 2014 a "criminal"?  I"m pretty sure there's something in law that says you can't pass a law which retroactively makes someone a criminal.

At the end of the article Pavlich acknowledges that she originally wrote "2014" when she should have written "2015", and that the article has since been corrected. The article hadn't been corrected when you or I read it, so she'll need to issue another correction about the incorrect originally asserted correction.

It's (the lack of an exemption) already published in the 2015 guide. People just have to hope that whatever arbitrary and capricious interpretation and enforcement BATFE ends up making, that they don't try to arrest the millions of people who possess (and/or purchased after January 1, 2015) these rounds. Because if they do, our taxes are going to skyrocket to prosecute and keep all those people in prison... oh, wait, we'll all be in prison, so I guess we won't have to worry about higher taxes... 

Apparently m855 is now banned.. Seen this from gun saves lives Facebook post, I'm pretty sure the news source is reliable from other things I've read on controversialtimes.com

http://controversialtimes.com/news/report-atf-and-obama-admin-have-already-banned-popular-ar-15-round-m855-green-tip/

This issue has me confused...  The applicable federal law says:

"(B) The term “armor piercing ammunition” means—
(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or
(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile."

It appears to me that the projectile in M855 is not "... constructed entirely...from... tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper or depleted uranium" because the projectile is combination of lead and steel.  It is also not "a full jacketed projectile...whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile" (although I base that on looking at the thickness of the jacket compared to the mass of lead and steel inside the jacket; I haven't weighed one).

Since it doesn't meet either criterion, the "sporting use" exemption need not apply.  So it appears to me that the ATF removed a specific exemption for a round that never required one in the first place...  How does that make it illegal?  Has the ATF weighed in directly and said that M855 is now illegal?

This issue has me confused...  The applicable federal law says:

"(B) The term “armor piercing ammunition” means—
(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or
(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile."

It appears to me that the projectile in M855 is not "... constructed entirely...from... tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper or depleted uranium" because the projectile is combination of lead and steel.  It is also not "a full jacketed projectile...whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile" (although I base that on looking at the thickness of the jacket compared to the mass of lead and steel inside the jacket; I haven't weighed one).

Since it doesn't meet either criterion, the "sporting use" exemption need not apply.  So it appears to me that the ATF removed a specific exemption for a round that never required one in the first place...  How does that make it illegal?  Has the ATF weighed in directly and said that M855 is now illegal?

If you think that's confusing, you gotta read this....http://controversialtimes.com/news/breaking-atf-issues-statement-saying-paperwork-showing-m855-banned-was-publishing-error/

If you think that's confusing, you gotta read this....http://controversialtimes.com/news/breaking-atf-issues-statement-saying-paperwork-showing-m855-banned-was-publishing-error/

Three things:

1) Huh?
2) I still don't see what part of the definition of "armor piercing" applies to M855, so even if they don't publish that specific exemption, I don't think it would be illegal...? 
3) I wonder how the people who paid ridiculous prices for boxes of M855 are going to feel?   

Three things:

1) Huh?
2) I still don't see what part of the definition of "armor piercing" applies to M855, so even if they don't publish that specific exemption, I don't think it would be illegal...? 
3) I wonder how the people who paid ridiculous prices for boxes of M855 are going to feel?   

Apparently this whole situation was caused by a clerical/publishing error.  An ooopsie our bad on the ATF''s part

Apparently this whole situation was caused by a clerical/publishing error.  An ooopsie our bad on the ATF''s part

And Fast and Furious never happened!

The ATF is an arm of the DOJ.  They are taking the heat for another one of Holder's attempted end runs around the Constitution!

If a journalist had not followed up and done her research, they would have never caught this supposed "printing error."  Quickly correcting and posting the new PDF version is just an attempt to avoid the consequences of their obviously illegal acts.

One week left to submit comments to the BATFE on their "Framework" for banning M855 as "protective-vest-piercing handgun ammunition".

Email address:

APAComments@ATF.gov

Sample possible comment:

BATFE,

Singling out this particular ammunition is irrational, illogical and a deceptive, deceitful attempt on the part of BATFE to criminalize law-abiding American citizens who are no threat whatsoever to law enforcement officers.

The letter from the members of Congress to BATFE concisely outlined the errors in the BATFE's "Framework" statement.

Stop this absurdity now. Either that, or issue an honest statement and "Framework" that bans ALL ammunition capable of being fired in any rifle, which is ammunition capable of penetrating a protective vest.

ATF shelves controversial bullet ban proposal
Same story, different outlet   http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/03/10/atf-shelves-controversial-bullet-ban-proposal/

Wow. I guess my e-mail did make a difference this time.

We just have to watch these clowns, because they'll try it again when they think no one is looking.

I'm including this email from GOA because it stresses that this may only be a temporary halt to the attempt to ban the ammo. The first article above implies that it's all over, a done deal, and the second Fox News article mentions, but does not stress that this halt to the "framework" is merely temporary, and no final decision has been made. Given the past 6 years of this administration, I'd suspect that we haven't seen the end of various backdoor attempts to subvert the Second Amendment... and I wouldn't be surprised to see some front door attempts as well.

ATF Makes a “Tactical Retreat” in the Face of Overwhelming Opposition to its Ammo Ban

“If anyone needed any more proof that [the ATF] has become a politicized repository of liberal anti-gun hacks, your proposed effort to effectively ban AR-15's by illegally banning AR-15 ammunition has cleared up any doubt.” -- GOA Comments that were officially submitted to ATF

In a stunning new development, the ATF has announced today that it will “formally delay” the implementation of its ammo ban, in the face of 80,000 comments which were overwhelmingly negative.

Last month, Obama’s ATF had proposed a rule to effectively ban AR-15's by banning the common AR-15 “green tip” ammunition.

Supposedly, gun owners had until March 16 to send comments to ATF. But then, lo and behold, the AR-15 ammunition in question turned up (last week) on an ATF list of ammunition indicating that it had ALREADY BEEN BANNED. Oops!
The ATF claimed this was a “publishing error.”  But the only “error” the lying agency made was to telegraph its firm intention before the comment period was closed.  It was like the bizarre world of Lewis Carroll’s Alice in Wonderland:  First the sentence; then the trial.

ATF cries “uncle” after getting hammered from the public

The agency is now crying “uncle,” in the face of thousands upon thousands of negative comments from gun owners all around the country -- including more than 200 congressmen.

The agency said today: "Although ATF endeavored to create a proposal that reflected a good faith interpretation of the law and balanced the interests of law enforcement, industry, and sportsmen, the vast majority of the comments received to date are critical of the framework, and include issues that deserve further study."

A “good faith interpretation”?  Well, that’s laughable.  But realize the agency says the issue deserves “further study.”

So now the question becomes:  Is this a genuine retreat, or just a “tactical retreat,” as we saw with Operation Choke Point?  In that case, the federal government removed gun dealers from its “risky business list,” but continue to persecute them under that program on a case-by-case basis.

And, finally, what about the ban on Russian-made 7N6 ammo, which is not reversed by ATF's reversal?

Our answer to both of these questions is that we need to keep up the pressure -- and not trust ATF's purported “change of heart.”

GOA will keep watching the ATF and alert you to any future attempts to slip a ban by the American people.

Your grassroots efforts have been phenomenal!!!

In the past couple of weeks, GOA had warned millions of Americans to the dangers of the AR-15 ammo ban through our website and Facebook pages, and appeared in several media outlets as well.
You can listen to (or read) some of the interviews with GOA spokesmen here:

* GOA helps fan the flames against the AR-15 ban, The Hill, March 8, 2015  http://cqrcengage.com/gunowners/app/thru?ep=AAAAC2Flc0NpcGhlcjAxdQ47RDmWRwbXDV4fhsGt21B44f_cyZX9bQcUcA0cpC2hVAmqpFmXbLVYLKvS3ohulipaFVsQkTuTefgaIIX0RJlxxuzpVyUKMXSjzCIgzBIS-Wo34ZofF5Prb21ikA-84Ae0zYGcOk1WHBvBxVMZESu9lEnC9k45gbjpJQSUIck&lp=0

* Obama’s bullet grab sparks rebellion, WorldNetDaily, March 4, 2015  http://cqrcengage.com/gunowners/app/thru?ep=AAAAC2Flc0NpcGhlcjAxVcJpkol6Ys-cvI1NseAXl6uJU32BOUlm727jT0G2KeJQmEaN29E7Q8YB17o1d84S-1xbSmZhYtWStvg1HPsj_o3RLdn7k49Krzdn4_X4QJ3lphU8iI8G6U0RSCd-8_D1xJWO-866OLfw4mwU3c_OpYrm7IJlVYKoGNB1SZK0KU4&lp=0


* GOA blasts Obama’s justification for ammo ban, The Blaze, March 2, 2015  http://cqrcengage.com/gunowners/app/thru?ep=AAAAC2Flc0NpcGhlcjAx_ORL129myAZhexsTpPcHoaCFEIw60NPTNAsoZNzV_Cl8dkSwIVfjQSmgyGzd7DuBOMWqg1Y_ir_y2eoV8ibBH9M30a4xG4kvH4r52Ql9V3y55f6KsJYm9s4qE13wpS3li6ctNI_nlZp5EhE2q4mPTiIqazpcOKqYrw--wiehk7lGV9VhVk9B2Bz7lXEFX8YjYpvZy677iK2x50NKGRnXELEuOEqVESZ0FtVMP9-2xCYb3OnkSrpwebY-A_ySPftUxAenMsox9fnWnYghF2rKuw&lp=0


* GOA lays out strategy for defeating the ban on AR-15 ammunition, March 4, 2015.  NOTE: Click on the “WND/Radio America” link half way down the page to hear the interview with GOA’s legislative counsel Michael Hammond.  http://cqrcengage.com/gunowners/app/thru?ep=AAAAC2Flc0NpcGhlcjAxfdvoaXa4dbtUubuMz14qGIWoJGmSIfyeG4bpMT_KS-NB9zEfIYd_6p16haCj0lB6wmy3ZcbKqDsgVVFebmm83JKm4SgVm5n77fEhNYV4H0SflB9rJlPaDvgB2vZm5w_NOqsiofARiWcauA8GamNH7xm5bSJr4YVfZOSKNjQboWiMs2ZuQ0KSeiWSFA2yYrQC&lp=0

This has been a team effort.  And we thank you for all your participation.
For now, pat yourselves on the back -- your hard work in lobbying Congress and sending your comments to the ATF has paid off!

So how many of us hoarded M855? 

So how many of us hoarded M855? 

I don't own one round of it. Never have, never will. I bought 1k rounds of the 55gr ball a few years ago and was disappointed in the performance. I still have 2-300 rounds of it.

So how many of us hoarded M855? 

Recently? 

So how many of us hoarded M855? 

nah.

if im going to shoot a bunch of "cheap" ammo, im going to shoot actually cheap ammo.  even before the panic it was like 50 cents a round.  might as well buy cases of .223 or 5.56 55 grain for 350 a case or less.  im no good of a shot yet, anyways, so im not going to bother shooting high quality stuff, and everything i've seen on the M855, well, if im going to shoot angle of pie plate as it is, the extra MOA i get vs the really cheap stuff is irrelevant.


i'll wait til i can start getting consistent groupings first before i think about spending more than 35 cents a round.  took me damn near three trips to the range to get my sight sighted in  (and its technically not even sighted in well, tbh.  its off to the right by about 4 inches at 100 yards, but i havent had a chance to sit down and move it yet) as it is, i need practice, not expensive ammo.

nah.

if im going to shoot a bunch of "cheap" ammo, im going to shoot actually cheap ammo.  even before the panic it was like 50 cents a round.  might as well buy cases of .223 or 5.56 55 grain for 350 a case or less.  im no good of a shot yet, anyways, so im not going to bother shooting high quality stuff, and everything i've seen on the M855, well, if im going to shoot angle of pie plate as it is, the extra MOA i get vs the really cheap stuff is irrelevant.

For some reason, green tip ammo here is really expensive compared to mainland/online prices. Also m855 is one of the worst 5.56 variants. Bad accuracy, bad effect on soft targets too. 

nah.

if im going to shoot a bunch of "cheap" ammo, im going to shoot actually cheap ammo.

What he said.

There is some good cheap ammo out there. Well, there was. American eagle was good and prvi partisan mach was outstanding. I haven't seen it for a long time though.

The new M855A1 is exceptionally accurate. It is a bit hotter. I shot it at 600 and it seemed to be shooting like my 80s with a little more windage and about the same elevation.
Apparently it's already proven itself at Perry
http://www.army.mil/article/86321/