ATF plans to ban M855 again... (Read 41747 times)

mauidog

Re: ATF plans to ban M855 again...
« Reply #60 on: March 10, 2015, 08:30:46 PM »
NRA Forces Obama to Wave White Flag on Proposed Ammo Ban … For Now

Quote
Fairfax, Va. – The National Rifle Association (NRA) was instrumental in stalling the Obama Administration’s initial attempt to ban
commonly used ammunition for the most popular rifle in America, the AR-15. The announcement that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms
and Explosives (BATFE) will suspend its proposed framework to ban M855 ammunition validates the NRA’s assertion that this effort was nothing
more than a political maneuver to bypass Congress and impose gun control on the American people.

https://www.nraila.org/articles/20150310/nra-forces-obama-to-waive-white-flag-on-proposed-ammo-ban-for-now
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

justin1098

Re: ATF plans to ban M855 again...
« Reply #61 on: March 10, 2015, 09:05:47 PM »
The new M855A1 is exceptionally accurate. It is a bit hotter. I shot it at 600 and it seemed to be shooting like my 80s with a little more windage and about the same elevation.

I'll bet it costs two or three times what m855 costs and we will never get to have it.

SpeedTek

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Re: ATF plans to ban M855 again...
« Reply #62 on: March 11, 2015, 09:53:05 AM »
I can't wait for the DOJ to start a false flag situation involving M855 ammo. 

Surprising we didn't hear the media go back and say at Sandy Hook and the 2012 Colorado Theater shooters used M855.

So funny to see in the pajama media the words Temporary and On Hold, not using the words Stopped and reversed like conservative news.
Political Correctness is FOS
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punaperson

Re: ATF plans to ban M855 again...
« Reply #63 on: March 11, 2015, 01:12:16 PM »
Surprising we didn't hear the media go back and say at Sandy Hook and the 2012 Colorado Theater shooters used M855.
Well, the media (Fox News, no less) gave a platform for someone to do just that:

https://www.nraila.org/articles/20150306/anti-gunners-lie-to-promote-batfe-ammo-ban

Anti-Gunners Lie to Promote BATFE Ammo Ban

Friday, March 06, 2015

On Fox News' "America's Newsroom," former Obama campaigner Marjorie Clifton claimed that M855 ammunition "has been used in every mass shooting we've had in the country over past years." That is absolutely untrue. Most of these events have not involved firearms even capable of using that round.


So funny to see in the pajama media the words Temporary and On Hold, not using the words Stopped and reversed like conservative news.
Not all the "conservative" media is convinced the BATFE attempts to ban ammo, including M855 are over. For example, David Codrea:

http://www.examiner.com/article/atf-temporarily-shelves-proposed-ammo-ban-while-power-to-proceed-remains-intact

ATF temporarily shelves proposed ammo ban while power to proceed remains intact

Today's Gun Rights Examiner report notes it's OK to breathe a temporary sigh of relief -- just don't make the mistake of thinking it's over, or that it's safe to let our guard down, because they slipped another ban through less than a year ago without all the brouhaha, and they're willing to wait until the time is right to strike again.

What did the Terminator say?

"I'll be back."

Until it's crushed in a hydraulic press, I'd believe it.

Lockin

Re: ATF plans to ban M855 again...
« Reply #64 on: March 12, 2015, 08:26:05 AM »
Next time there probably wont be any warning either.


FEDERAL AGENCIES:

Public notice not required for revising interpretive rules -- Supreme Court

Jeremy P. Jacobs, E&E reporter
Greenwire: Monday, March 9, 2015
"The Supreme Court ruled unanimously today that an agency does not need to post a public notice and solicit comments when it revises one of its interpretive rules."

dafrtknocker

Re: ATF plans to ban M855 again...
« Reply #65 on: March 12, 2015, 08:29:06 AM »
White House says Barry still committed to Gun Control, Gun Lobby is just causing a delay.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/03/11/white-house-ammo-ban-delayed-but-obama-still-committed-to-gun-control/

robtmc

Re: ATF plans to ban M855 again...
« Reply #66 on: March 12, 2015, 08:48:21 AM »
White House says Barry still committed to Gun Control, Gun Lobby is just causing a delay.

Everybody be sure to thank the 2AHawaii members that voted for the turd.

Q

Re: ATF plans to ban M855 again...
« Reply #67 on: March 12, 2015, 09:17:57 AM »
.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2021, 10:26:28 PM by Q »

aieahound

Re: ATF plans to ban M855 again...
« Reply #68 on: March 12, 2015, 09:42:30 AM »
Seems like it all stems from AR pistols. If you can even call them a pistol.

No is walking around with an AR pistol stuck in their pants.  Which the police associations have confirmed.

Everybody be sure to thank the 2AHawaii members that voted for the turd.

In all fairness, we poor folks in Hawaii don't get to vote for the president. The election is decided before the polls close in Hawaii so voting for the Pres here is only symbolic.

punaperson

Re: ATF plans to ban M855 again...
« Reply #69 on: March 12, 2015, 11:11:53 AM »
Seems like it all stems from AR pistols. If you can even call them a pistol.

No is walking around with an AR pistol stuck in their pants.  Which the police associations have confirmed.

In all fairness, we poor folks in Hawaii don't get to vote for the president. The election is decided before the polls close in Hawaii so voting for the Pres here is only symbolic.
I believe a case can be made that it's only symbolic everywhere else as well.

mauidog

Re: ATF plans to ban M855 again...
« Reply #70 on: March 12, 2015, 11:26:03 AM »
Seems like it all stems from AR pistols. If you can even call them a pistol.

Actually, it stems from the ATF not following their own guidance.  Based on their own definitions of what constitutes an Armor Piercing round as it is referred to in the 1986 federal statute:

Quote
(17)
(A) The term ‘ammunition’ means ammunition or cartridge cases, primers, bullets, or propellent powder designed for use in any firearm.
(B) The term ‘armor piercing ammunition’ means—
      (i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or
      (ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.
(C) The term ‘armor piercing ammunition’ does not include shotgun shot required by Federal or State environmental or game regulations for hunting purposes, a frangible projectile designed for target shooting, a projectile which the Attorney General finds is primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes, or any other projectile or projectile core which the Attorney General finds is intended to be used for industrial purposes, including a charge used in an oil and gas well perforating device.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/921

The definition does not require that so-called armor-piercing ammunition actually be capable of piercing armor.

The first definition, from (B)(i) above, requires all of the following: a projectile (or bullet) must be
1) usable in a handgun, and
2) constructed entirely from “one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium.”

M855 ammo is made from a combination of steel and lead, and lead is not one of the materials listed in the statutory definition of “armor-piercing ammunition.”

The AR-15 pistol rhetoric was a shoehorn to get the ATF to have the exemption removed.  Based on the ATF's own guidance, M855 was misclassified, and it should have never required an exemption in the first place.
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

takeiteasy

Re: ATF plans to ban M855 again...
« Reply #71 on: March 12, 2015, 02:44:35 PM »
ATF ANNOUNCED THAT IT WILL NOT BAN M855 AMMO AT THIS TIME.

You can find this info on the ATF Website. :shaka:

robtmc

Re: ATF plans to ban M855 again...
« Reply #72 on: March 12, 2015, 03:11:31 PM »
I believe a case can be made that it's only symbolic everywhere else as well.
Know what you guys are saying. 

Still, voting for the POS is a statement that you support his agenda.  That enrages me.  It will take decades to clean up the mess being created.

mauidog

Re: ATF plans to ban M855 again...
« Reply #73 on: March 12, 2015, 04:05:45 PM »
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

Inspector

Re: ATF plans to ban M855 again...
« Reply #74 on: March 12, 2015, 05:01:03 PM »

I think very highly of Jerry. He is the best. However, the whole time I was watching that video I was thinking to myself, how the hell does he find anything in that mess???  :rofl:
SCIENCE THAT CAN’T BE QUESTIONED IS PROPAGANDA!!!

punaperson

Re: ATF plans to ban M855 again...
« Reply #75 on: March 13, 2015, 06:15:58 AM »
http://www.captainsjournal.com/2015/03/12/atf-wants-to-go-after-all-5-56-mm-ammunition-not-just-green-tip/

ATF Wants To Go After All 5.56 mm Ammunition, Not Just Green Tip

Excerpts:

Recall when we speculated about why the ATF had decided to hold its “green tip” ban in abatement?  Well, the questions are answered.

    The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives on Thursday raised new concerns about surplus military ammo used in popular AR-15 rifles and pistols just days after pulling back on a proposal to ban the ammo because it could threaten police safety.

    In a Senate Appropriations Committee hearing, ATF Director B. Todd Jones said all types of the 5.56 military-style ammo used by shooters pose a threat to police as more people buy the AR-15-style pistols.

    “Any 5.56 round” is “a challenge for officer safety,” he said. Jones asked lawmakers to help in a review of a 1986 bill written to protect police from so-called “cop killer” rounds that largely exempted rifle ammo like the 5.56 because it has been used by target shooters, not      criminals."
....

So speculation of course ran wild as to the exact intent of the ATF.  Are they stupid?  Do they not really understand the technical issues they are dealing with?  But today B. Todd Jones answered those questions.  They are concerned about all 5.56 mm cartridges.  Of course they are.  But that .270 pointed soft point, shot from a necked down 30-06 cartridge from my bolt action deer hunting rifle?  Yes, that’s the one.  It will penetrate soft body armor too – lead ball, soft point, all of it.  So will lead ball 30-06.  So will lead ball .308.  So will lead ball 7 mm.  Virtually all rifle rounds (except .22LR and .22 WMR) will penetrate soft body armor because kevlar is specified to 9 mm rounds (as regards mass and velocity).

Jones knows that.  The ATF at large knows that.  What Jones is telling the Congress is that he wants their help in banning rifle ammunition.  Rifle ammunition.  All of it.  They will start with 5.56 mm ammunition, green tip, lead ball, pointed soft point – all of it.  Then they will make it clear that all other rifle ammunition is as lethal as 5.56 mm ammunition, so they need a ban on that too.

mauidog

Re: ATF plans to ban M855 again...
« Reply #76 on: March 13, 2015, 06:35:45 AM »
If the ATF can ban ammo that was originally designed for and intended for use in rifles, not pistols, simply because a pistol version that accepts that rifle ammo now exists, then there is nothing stopping the government from having the ATF contract the manufacture of a pistol for each and every caliber of rifle round.  If the standard for banning the ammo is that stupid, then meeting that definition would be easy and effectively create a ban on all rifles.  No bullets, no guns.

next will be shotguns, because we have handguns now that can use those shells, too. 

Remember, nothing in the ATF guidance says an armor piercing round must be capable of piercing armor.

An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

macsak

Re: ATF plans to ban M855 again...
« Reply #77 on: March 13, 2015, 07:10:02 AM »
http://www.captainsjournal.com/2015/03/12/atf-wants-to-go-after-all-5-56-mm-ammunition-not-just-green-tip/

ATF Wants To Go After All 5.56 mm Ammunition, Not Just Green Tip

Excerpts:

Recall when we speculated about why the ATF had decided to hold its “green tip” ban in abatement?  Well, the questions are answered.

    The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives on Thursday raised new concerns about surplus military ammo used in popular AR-15 rifles and pistols just days after pulling back on a proposal to ban the ammo because it could threaten police safety.

    In a Senate Appropriations Committee hearing, ATF Director B. Todd Jones said all types of the 5.56 military-style ammo used by shooters pose a threat to police as more people buy the AR-15-style pistols.

    “Any 5.56 round” is “a challenge for officer safety,” he said. Jones asked lawmakers to help in a review of a 1986 bill written to protect police from so-called “cop killer” rounds that largely exempted rifle ammo like the 5.56 because it has been used by target shooters, not      criminals."
....

So speculation of course ran wild as to the exact intent of the ATF.  Are they stupid?  Do they not really understand the technical issues they are dealing with?  But today B. Todd Jones answered those questions.  They are concerned about all 5.56 mm cartridges.  Of course they are.  But that .270 pointed soft point, shot from a necked down 30-06 cartridge from my bolt action deer hunting rifle?  Yes, that’s the one.  It will penetrate soft body armor too – lead ball, soft point, all of it.  So will lead ball 30-06.  So will lead ball .308.  So will lead ball 7 mm.  Virtually all rifle rounds (except .22LR and .22 WMR) will penetrate soft body armor because kevlar is specified to 9 mm rounds (as regards mass and velocity).

Jones knows that.  The ATF at large knows that.  What Jones is telling the Congress is that he wants their help in banning rifle ammunition.  Rifle ammunition.  All of it.  They will start with 5.56 mm ammunition, green tip, lead ball, pointed soft point – all of it.  Then they will make it clear that all other rifle ammunition is as lethal as 5.56 mm ammunition, so they need a ban on that too.

"if you like your ammo, you can keep your ammo"

punaperson

Re: ATF plans to ban M855 again...
« Reply #78 on: March 13, 2015, 07:52:44 AM »
If the ATF can ban ammo that was originally designed for and intended for use in rifles, not pistols, simply because a pistol version that accepts that rifle ammo now exists, then there is nothing stopping the government from having the ATF contract the manufacture of a pistol for each and every caliber of rifle round.  If the standard for banning the ammo is that stupid, then meeting that definition would be easy and effectively create a ban on all rifles.  No bullets, no guns.
I'm sure Bloomberg/Gates/Allen et. al. have the funds available (and perhaps already allocated) for independent designers, engineers, and manufacturers to pop out those things in less than a year. With a 605 day pad before Obama leaves, that's more than enough time to get all ammo banned. For the cops! (Because we know criminals will never have any ammo after the bans.)