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HONOLULU POLICE CHIEF AND STATE OF HAWAII SUED FOR SECOND AMENDMENT VIOLATIONS (Read 376261 times)

Funtimes

Re: HONOLULU POLICE CHIEF AND STATE OF HAWAII SUED FOR SECOND AMENDMENT VIOLATIONS
« Reply #100 on: September 21, 2011, 07:32:27 AM »
The response is due today; Now... I know... I know everyone wants to see it, but you may have to wait one day.  It probably be near the end of the day, and then we have to wait for it to be uploaded to the server.  Once it is uploaded we will retrieve it and it will be available.

Pretty much -- you will know as soon as I know.
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2aHawaii

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Re: HONOLULU POLICE CHIEF AND STATE OF HAWAII SUED FOR SECOND AMENDMENT VIOLATIONS
« Reply #101 on: September 21, 2011, 01:34:38 PM »
I was really hoping to see it today. Oh well, I guess another day won't kill me :)
I am not a lawyer.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." - United States Constitution Amendment 2 & Hawaii State Constitution Article 1 Section 17

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Travboi

Re: HONOLULU POLICE CHIEF AND STATE OF HAWAII SUED FOR SECOND AMENDMENT VIOLATIONS
« Reply #102 on: September 21, 2011, 02:21:31 PM »
just looked on fb... is it up?

Travboi

Re: HONOLULU POLICE CHIEF AND STATE OF HAWAII SUED FOR SECOND AMENDMENT VIOLATIONS
« Reply #103 on: September 21, 2011, 02:54:04 PM »
nevermind... just read it

antoinebugleboy

Re: HONOLULU POLICE CHIEF AND STATE OF HAWAII SUED FOR SECOND AMENDMENT VIOLATIONS
« Reply #104 on: September 21, 2011, 03:03:44 PM »
Wow...zero IT budget...

http://www.hid.uscourts.gov/
There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. - Heinlein

I swear by my life, and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine. - Rand

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. - Hitchens

Cougar8045

Re: HONOLULU POLICE CHIEF AND STATE OF HAWAII SUED FOR SECOND AMENDMENT VIOLATIONS
« Reply #105 on: September 21, 2011, 03:34:18 PM »
I'm not a lawyer, but it reads as if their point is, "We don't know what he's even talking about, not that he could sue us anyways.  Dismiss the case and give us money."
I'm just a fluffy white bunny rabbit who lost his way. 

"If a thief be found breaking in, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him. ..."  -Exodus 22:2

Dregs

Re: HONOLULU POLICE CHIEF AND STATE OF HAWAII SUED FOR SECOND AMENDMENT VIOLATIONS
« Reply #106 on: September 21, 2011, 03:46:47 PM »
Where is it >.<

antoinebugleboy

Re: HONOLULU POLICE CHIEF AND STATE OF HAWAII SUED FOR SECOND AMENDMENT VIOLATIONS
« Reply #107 on: September 21, 2011, 03:53:07 PM »
There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. - Heinlein

I swear by my life, and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine. - Rand

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. - Hitchens

vooduchikn

Re: HONOLULU POLICE CHIEF AND STATE OF HAWAII SUED FOR SECOND AMENDMENT VIOLATIONS
« Reply #108 on: September 21, 2011, 03:56:46 PM »
I'm not a lawyer, but it reads as if their point is, "We don't know what he's even talking about, not that he could sue us anyways.  Dismiss the case and give us money."

This.

Sounds like "even if we knew what he was talking about, we are above the law, immunity dammit!"
Relax, I've banned myself..

Cougar8045

I'm just a fluffy white bunny rabbit who lost his way. 

"If a thief be found breaking in, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him. ..."  -Exodus 22:2

antoinebugleboy

Re: HONOLULU POLICE CHIEF AND STATE OF HAWAII SUED FOR SECOND AMENDMENT VIOLATIONS
« Reply #110 on: September 21, 2011, 04:05:34 PM »
I'm not a lawyer, but that reply sounds like a giant F-U. wow.
There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. - Heinlein

I swear by my life, and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine. - Rand

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. - Hitchens

Cougar8045

Re: HONOLULU POLICE CHIEF AND STATE OF HAWAII SUED FOR SECOND AMENDMENT VIOLATIONS
« Reply #111 on: September 21, 2011, 04:07:36 PM »
Here's the summary, although I'm not a lawyer, and enterpeting legalese according to your understanding of plain English is always tricky:

FIRST DEFENSE: The court can't order the defendants to give Baker a license to carry. 

SECOND DEFENSE: We don't know what Baker's talking about.  Literally, that's what it says.  "Defendants are without knowledge or information sufficient to form a belief as to the truth of the allegations..."

THIRD DEFENSE: Sovereign immunity.  You can't sue us.

FOURTH DEFENSE: Eleventh Amendment immunity.  You can't sue us.

FIFTH DEFENSE: Qualified immunity.  You can't sue the governor.

SIXTH DEFENSE: It's not fair!  Abercrombie didn't even DO anything!!!1 Y U R suing him 4?????????

SEVENTH DEFENSE: We can't be held liable for for acts or omissions, performance or failure to perform something that's discretionary.  (We don't have to give licenses to anyone, so you can't sue us for screwing up the process.)

EIGHTH DEFENSE: Since we don't know what Baker's talking about, we can't form all of our defenses right now.  We'll get back to you when we get our heads out of our asses.  Defenses subject to change.

Based on the above BS, request you dismiss the case immediately and make Baker pay us for our attorney's fees.  (Because, you know, the attorney general deputy attorney general are going to send a bill to Kealoha and the Guv'nah if Baker doesn't pay it.)
I'm just a fluffy white bunny rabbit who lost his way. 

"If a thief be found breaking in, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him. ..."  -Exodus 22:2

Cynt

Re: HONOLULU POLICE CHIEF AND STATE OF HAWAII SUED FOR SECOND AMENDMENT VIOLATIONS
« Reply #112 on: September 21, 2011, 04:24:23 PM »
Don't that just make you want to run through a few boxes of ammo...

Dry fire instead and send what you'd spend on ammo to the HDF.  :shaka:

Dregs

Re: HONOLULU POLICE CHIEF AND STATE OF HAWAII SUED FOR SECOND AMENDMENT VIOLATIONS
« Reply #113 on: September 21, 2011, 04:26:44 PM »
So where's Kealoha's and HPD's Answers?

Funtimes

Re: HONOLULU POLICE CHIEF AND STATE OF HAWAII SUED FOR SECOND AMENDMENT VIOLATIONS
« Reply #114 on: September 21, 2011, 04:45:04 PM »
Don't that just make you want to run through a few boxes of ammo...

Dry fire instead and send what you'd spend on ammo to the HDF.  :shaka:

Quoted for emphasis!


I don't know Dregs.  I'm not expecting the Chief's, but was expecting the cities / hpd response.
Check out the Hawaii Defense Foundation.
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Defender of the Accused in Arkansas Courts
Posts are not legal advice & are my own, unless said so.

Dregs

Re: HONOLULU POLICE CHIEF AND STATE OF HAWAII SUED FOR SECOND AMENDMENT VIOLATIONS
« Reply #115 on: September 21, 2011, 04:49:43 PM »
3rd defense: Plaintiff's claims are barred by the doctrine of sovereign immunity.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_immunity)
United StatesMain article: Sovereign immunity in the United StatesIn the United States, the federal government has sovereign immunity and may not be sued unless it has waived its immunity or consented to suit. The United States has waived sovereign immunity to a limited extent, mainly through the Federal Tort Claims Act, which waives the immunity if a tortious act of a federal employee causes damage, and the Tucker Act, which waives the immunity over claims arising out of contracts to which the federal government is a party.[edit] State sovereign immunityIn Hans v. Louisiana (1890), the Supreme Court of the United States held that the Eleventh Amendment (1795) re-affirms that states possess sovereign immunity and are therefore generally immune from being sued in federal court without their consent. In later cases, the Supreme Court has strengthened state sovereign immunity considerably. In Blatchford v. Native Village of Noatak (1991), the court explained that<blockquote>we have understood the Eleventh Amendment to stand not so much for what it says, but for the presupposition of our constitutional structure which it confirms: that the States entered the federal system with their sovereignty intact; that the judicial authority in Article III is limited by this sovereignty, and that a State will therefore not be subject to suit in federal court unless it has consented to suit, either expressly or in the "plan of the convention." [Citations omitted.]</blockquote>In Alden v. Maine (1999), the Court explained that while it has<blockquote>sometimes referred to the States’ immunity from suit as "Eleventh Amendment immunity[,]" [that] phrase is [a] convenient shorthand but something of a misnomer, [because] the sovereign immunity of the States neither derives from nor is limited by the terms of the Eleventh Amendment. Rather, as the Constitution's structure, and its history, and the authoritative interpretations by this Court make clear, the States’ immunity from suit is a fundamental aspect of the sovereignty which the States enjoyed before the ratification of the Constitution, and which they retain today (either literally or by virtue of their admission into the Union upon an equal footing with the other States) except as altered by the plan of the Convention or certain constitutional Amendments.</blockquote>Writing for the court in Alden, Justice Anthony Kennedy argued that in view of this, and given the limited nature of congressional power delegated by the original unamended Constitution, the court could not "conclude that the specific Article I powers delegated to Congress necessarily include, by virtue of the Necessary and Proper Clause or otherwise, the incidental authority to subject the States to private suits as a means of achieving objectives otherwise within the scope of the enumerated powers."
However, a "consequence of [the] Court's recognition of pre-ratification sovereignty as the source of immunity from suit is that only States and arms of the State possess immunity from suits authorized by federal law." Northern Insurance Company of New York v. Chatham County (2006 emphases added). Thus, cities and municipalities lack sovereign immunity, Jinks v. Richland County (2003), and counties are not generally considered to have sovereign immunity, even when they "exercise a 'slice of state power.'" Lake Country Estates, Inc. v. Tahoe Regional Planning Agency (1979).

4th defense: 11th amendment, the defendants are immune in federal court regarding plaintiff's claims.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleventh_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution)
The Judicial power of the United States shall not be construed to extend to any suit in law or equity, commenced or prosecuted against one of the United States by Citizens of another State, or by Citizens or Subjects of any Foreign State.

5th defense: Plaintiff's claims against the guvnah are barred by qualified immunity.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualified_immunity)Qualified immunity is a doctrine in U.S. federallaw that arises in cases brought against state officials under 42 U.S.CSection 1983 and against federal officials under Bivens v. Six Unknown Named Agents, 403 U.S. 388 (1971). Qualified immunity shields government officials from liability for the violation of an individual's federal constitutional rights. This grant of immunity is available to state or federal employees performing discretionary functions where their actions, even if later found to be unlawful, did not violate "clearly established law." The defense of qualified immunity was created by the U.S. Supreme Court, replacing a court's inquiry into a defendant's subjective state of mind with an inquiry into the objective reasonableness of the contested action. A government agent's liability in a federal civil rights lawsuit now no longer turns upon whether the defendant acted with "malice," but on whether a hypothetical reasonable person in the defendant's position would have known that his/her actions violated clearly established law.As outlined by the Supreme Court in Harlow v. Fitzgerald, 457 U.S. 800 (1982),[1] qualified immunity is designed to shield government officials from actions "insofar as their conduct does not violate clearly established statutory or constitutional rights of which a reasonable person would have known."In 2001, the Supreme Court in Saucier v. Katz established a rigid order in which courts must decide the merits of a defendant's qualified immunity defense. First, the court determines whether the complaint states a constitutional violation. If so, the next sequential step is to determine whether the right at issue was clearly established at the time of the official's conduct. The Court subsequently overruled Saucier in Pearson v. Callahan, holding that the two-step procedure was no longer mandatory.

Travboi

Re: HONOLULU POLICE CHIEF AND STATE OF HAWAII SUED FOR SECOND AMENDMENT VIOLATIONS
« Reply #116 on: September 21, 2011, 04:56:03 PM »
Idk. Its total bs. But what more did we expect? I mean they have no problem carrying but they feel like they are better than us in some way.

Heavies

Re: HONOLULU POLICE CHIEF AND STATE OF HAWAII SUED FOR SECOND AMENDMENT VIOLATIONS
« Reply #117 on: September 21, 2011, 05:33:00 PM »
 :o

I'd like to submit a new internet web cloud acronym,  IAGIANAL :crazy:

How long for the judge to make a decision on the prelim?
« Last Edit: September 21, 2011, 05:38:58 PM by Heavies »

2aHawaii

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Re: HONOLULU POLICE CHIEF AND STATE OF HAWAII SUED FOR SECOND AMENDMENT VIOLATIONS
« Reply #118 on: September 21, 2011, 05:42:48 PM »
Really?!?!

How can you ask for a dismissal if you don't even know what half of the complaint is.

I'm guessing this is the usual, but c'mon....
I am not a lawyer.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." - United States Constitution Amendment 2 & Hawaii State Constitution Article 1 Section 17

Buying from Amazon? Click through here

Cougar8045

Re: HONOLULU POLICE CHIEF AND STATE OF HAWAII SUED FOR SECOND AMENDMENT VIOLATIONS
« Reply #119 on: September 21, 2011, 06:03:16 PM »
I'll bite: what does IAGIANAL mean?
I'm just a fluffy white bunny rabbit who lost his way. 

"If a thief be found breaking in, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him. ..."  -Exodus 22:2