Does anyone know of any Black Powder Shooting Clubs, groups or individuals that are into the Black Powder shooting of revolvers here on Maui? I know you're allowed to shoot black powder at the range, but wanted to see if any groups have certain days they might meet at the range. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Mauimort

The black powder rifle guys meet up on Sunday mornings at koko head at the tables on the east end of the rifle range. Not sure about pistols though, except maybe the sas folks. They meet up this Sunday morning at action bay 2 at koko head.

I'm trying to find a club or individual who is into black powder shooting here on MAUI. I just started to get interested in black powder, just bought an 1851 Navy .36 caliber revolver and have some questions about powder and loading. If there is any information that can be passed on, please let me know.
Thanks, Mort

I'm trying to find a club or individual who is into black powder shooting here on MAUI. I just started to get interested in black powder, just bought an 1851 Navy .36 caliber revolver and have some questions about powder and loading. If there is any information that can be passed on, please let me know.
Thanks, Mort

Hey Mort,

I shoot a lot of black powder. I am on Oahu but if I can answer any of your questions either post them here or you can PM/e-mail me.

Dave,
Thanks for answering me.
I just started to get into black powder guns. I purchased an Uberti 1851 Navy .36 caliber revolver. I need to load it correctly and don’t want to blow myself up. Uberti recommends  a 15 grain load. How to measure powder is confusing. This grain vs volume, etc., is so puzzling. The powder I have is Hodgdon Triple 7. I have a revolver powder measure. Do I just load the Triple 7 into the powder measure to 15 grains and drop into chamber, drop in a lubed wad, the bullet and I’m set? The confusion, is they say 15 grains, but of what?, BP substitutes like Triple 7, or Pyrodex-P or is it just for black powder like Goex? Videos just show dropping the black powder from the flask either to the chamber or to the powder measure, then to the chamber. No reference to powder type.
 
Thank you for your help.
Mort Krajec
mort@mauiadvertising.com

Dave,
Thanks for answering me.
I just started to get into black powder guns. I purchased an Uberti 1851 Navy .36 caliber revolver. I need to load it correctly and don’t want to blow myself up. Uberti recommends  a 15 grain load. How to measure powder is confusing. This grain vs volume, etc., is so puzzling. The powder I have is Hodgdon Triple 7. I have a revolver powder measure. Do I just load the Triple 7 into the powder measure to 15 grains and drop into chamber, drop in a lubed wad, the bullet and I’m set? The confusion, is they say 15 grains, but of what?, BP substitutes like Triple 7, or Pyrodex-P or is it just for black powder like Goex? Videos just show dropping the black powder from the flask either to the chamber or to the powder measure, then to the chamber. No reference to powder type.
 
Thank you for your help.
Mort Krajec
mort@mauiadvertising.com

There are grains as in weight and there are grains as in volume. They are not interchangeable nor comparable. It is similar to the measurement of ounces. You have ounces as in weight and you have fluid ounces which is in volume. Confusing? No worries. Just always make sure you use a volume measuring device when loading black powder (and substitutes) and you won't have any issues. Just set your black powder volume measure to 15 grains and load it. The BP substitutes are designed to substitute for BP on a one for one basis. So if you want to use a 15 grain load you measure out 15 grains of BP or 15 grains of Triple 7 or Pyrodex. You can buy a BP rifle measure and it is the same as the revolver measure only bigger with more volume. Fifteen grains measured in one BP volume measure is the same as 15 grains in another. The flask you saw in the video could be a combination measuring device as part of the flask. The flasks have a tube with a open/close valve at one end. The tube itself is exactly 15 grains (Or whatever size you purchase). Fill the tube by putting your finger over the end. Turn the flask upside down. Open the valve and drop the BP into the tube. Close the valve and turn the flask right side up. The tube is full of 15 grains (or whatever size it is) of BP or substitute. The tubes usually just screw onto the lid that has the built in valve. It is easy if you have only one caliber revolver. But get a 44 or 50 and you will need more powder and you will need to readjust your measure to say 20 or 25 grains.

Here is an example: http://www.cabelas.com/product/shooting/black-powder/loading-accessories%7C/pc/104792580/c/104701680/sc/104436180/pedersoli-powder-flask-spout-kit-150-set-of-6/734612.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Floading-accessories%2F_%2FN-1100209%2FNo-48%3FWTz_st%3DGuidedNav%26WTz_stype%3DGNP%26recordsPerPage%3D48

Here is how I load BP:

1. Before I do anything I run the poker tool through each nipple to clear the hole. If you don't have a poker tool you should consider getting one in a set with other tools like a ball puller, patch puller, etc.
2. Place a cap on each nipple and fire each one. Point the end of the barrel towards some grass or a piece of hanging clothe. If you see the grass or clothe move when you set off the cap you know the ignition hole is clear and the cap firing dries up excess oil in the chamber. Oil can foul the powder and prevent it from igniting. Repeat as many times as necessary to clear the hole and/or dry up excess oil.
3. Set the revolver with barrel straight up and load your 15 grain powder into one chamber. I have a loading stand I built or you can buy one. Makes loading more convenient.
4. Place lubed wad or lubed patch in chamber. You can use unlubed wad or patch. Or no wad/patch. You get the best accuracy with lubed wad/patch.
5. Place ball over chamber and rotate cylinder until it is directly under plunger.
6. Use plunger to force ball into chamber. This requires a lot of force. Also it should shear off a small ring of lead from ball.
7. If you are using unlubed wad/patch or no wad/patch get a big glob of lube and fill the remaining space in the chamber over the ball. Do this especially if you load all 6 chambers. This protects you and the gun from chain firing. This is where the fire from one chamber sets off an adjacent chamber. Some of us use use Crisco Shortening. It is cheap and works well.

One last point. You cannot load so much BP into the chamber to blow up the gun. So don't worry. If you fill it up too much you won't be able to set the ball all the way in. So try 12 grains or 20. It is up to you. It is okay to compress BP to some extent.

I hope I answered all your questions.

Dave

Dave,
Wow. Thanks. You're last name isn't Brilliant for nothing.
I went out and purchased everything I needed before shooting.I have the revolver powder measure that measures 5 to 50 grains, a cylinder flask field model with a 20 grain spout, a line capper, a nipple pick, lubbed wads, crisco and the loading/display stand. I even changed out the original nipples to Slix Shot nipples. Have you used plastic cap guards for the percussion caps? There are some tiny brushes used for teeth, like floss, sold in drug stores, but are great for getting into the nipple holes. I’ll probably go shooting this month and try out the 1851 Navy.
Thanks again for all your information. I also shoot other guns. You would’nt  happen to have a light load suggestion using Trail Boss for a 38 S&W, 145 gr. rn. that I’m going to shoot in a S&W Victoria Model? 1.5 grain? Not 38 Special. 38 S&W.
Mort

Dave,
Wow. Thanks. You're last name isn't Brilliant for nothing.
I went out and purchased everything I needed before shooting.I have the revolver powder measure that measures 5 to 50 grains, a cylinder flask field model with a 20 grain spout, a line capper, a nipple pick, lubbed wads, crisco and the loading/display stand. I even changed out the original nipples to Slix Shot nipples. Have you used plastic cap guards for the percussion caps? There are some tiny brushes used for teeth, like floss, sold in drug stores, but are great for getting into the nipple holes. I’ll probably go shooting this month and try out the 1851 Navy.
Thanks again for all your information. I also shoot other guns. You would’nt  happen to have a light load suggestion using Trail Boss for a 38 S&W, 145 gr. rn. that I’m going to shoot in a S&W Victoria Model? 1.5 grain? Not 38 Special. 38 S&W.
Mort

Sorry, I have never loaded for 38 S&W. However, I do think that Trail Boss is an excellent powder but maybe not for that application. But it could be only if you can get enough in the case. And it is probably too slow burning for this application. I would try a little experiment. Mark on the case where the bottom of the bullet would be seated. Fill the case with TB up to the bottom of the mark and weigh the charge. If you get around 1.75 to 2.0 grains of TB then I think you could start with around 1.75 grains up to 2.0 grains max. But my feeling is you may not be able to get that much in the case. You want to keep that load around 500-550 fps to start to about and about 650 fps max. Anything less and you risk not stabilizing the bullet and accuracy will suffer. I believe 1.5 grains is not enough to get you to that magic 500-550 fps. But you could try it. However, I would guess you will get approximately 1.75 grains in there as a max. You might try that if you can get that much without compressing the TB. That should get you close to the 500 fps mark. And whatever you do, do not compress Trail Boss. It is a warning from Hodgdons.

I would think a faster burning powder would do better in this application.

Being a maui member myself. As far as i know there are not any clubs that deal with black powder firearms only. There are only 2 trap/skeet clubs. One being at ukumehame on the far right, and the other ones located in haliimaile. They have ipsc at ukumehame at the middle range. And regular open days are on the far left, but they are limited to first sunday, second saturday, and third thursday. I work part time at a lgs here on maui. And one of my coworkers teach the black powder section for the dlnr hunting class. Feel free to pm me and i can try to help you out as best as i can if you are in need of stuff locally. I seen inspector did alot of great explaining already.

Dave, thanks for the input. It’s exactly what I’ve been finding online. I’ve been searching the web for different loads for that bullet size using Trail Boss and all I could find is 1.5, 1.7, 2.5 and 3.5 grains of Trail Boss for the 145 grain Round Nose. I have 38 S&W 146 grain bullets I got from Reeds Ammunition that I haven’t tried yet. I would normally reload that bullet with Winchester 231 for the 38 S&W. Actually, I use Winchester 231 for most of my 357 and 38 Specials, but I’ve been hearing a lot about the use of Trail Boss in a variety of bullet combinations. Seems to be quite popular. Mainly my  concern was for an Old 1909 Hopkins & Allen Safety Police top break I have. The original owner said he only shot black powder through it and recommended I shoot a light load in it because the new loads would be to severe. Hence, I haven’t shot it yet, want to make sure I have the right load. Going back to Trail Boss, the popularity of this powder is intriguing, especially in Cowboy shooting loads. That’s where my interests are, in Cowboy Action shooting, and of course my new found pleasure of cap and ball shooting.
I’ll keep researching the loads. And, thanks mauiboi9, I’ll probably be asking you some questions about the shotgun ranges and such, as my next direction is shotguns.
Thanks,
Mort

Dave, thanks for the input. It’s exactly what I’ve been finding online. I’ve been searching the web for different loads for that bullet size using Trail Boss and all I could find is 1.5, 1.7, 2.5 and 3.5 grains of Trail Boss for the 145 grain Round Nose. I have 38 S&W 146 grain bullets I got from Reeds Ammunition that I haven’t tried yet. I would normally reload that bullet with Winchester 231 for the 38 S&W. Actually, I use Winchester 231 for most of my 357 and 38 Specials, but I’ve been hearing a lot about the use of Trail Boss in a variety of bullet combinations. Seems to be quite popular. Mainly my  concern was for an Old 1909 Hopkins & Allen Safety Police top break I have. The original owner said he only shot black powder through it and recommended I shoot a light load in it because the new loads would be to severe. Hence, I haven’t shot it yet, want to make sure I have the right load. Going back to Trail Boss, the popularity of this powder is intriguing, especially in Cowboy shooting loads. That’s where my interests are, in Cowboy Action shooting, and of course my new found pleasure of cap and ball shooting.
I’ll keep researching the loads. And, thanks mauiboi9, I’ll probably be asking you some questions about the shotgun ranges and such, as my next direction is shotguns.
Thanks,
Mort

W231 is a good powder to work with. You might consider trying Titegroup. I use Titegroup a lot in some of my reduced loads. Mostly because it is known, and I have experienced, that it ignites easily even if the case is not very full. I shoot 5.0 grains in a 357 Magnum case and use a standard primer and over 1,000's of rounds every one ignited reliably. Also, it may be a good powder for you because you can get more than enough into the case. I believe this cartridge with a cast bullet is in my Lyman Cast Bullet Reloading Manual. I am at work and cannot research it at this moment. But I will be happy to look it up for you when I get home tonight. I'll let you know.

TB may still be a good choice for you if you can get enough of it in the case to get to ~500 fps. I would try it as it is an excellent choice for most applications.

Dave,
Thanks. I'll check out that Titegroup. I'm off on errands, will check back tonight.
Mort

Mort please read all of my post here and the page from my Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook BEFORE you do any reloading. This was eye opening for me for the following reason. This manual does not recommend any of these loads be used in a top break revolver. Please read the warning on the attached page. As low pressure as all of these loads are, since they recommend not using them in a top break revolver I would heed their warning. With that said, no reason you can't load black powder in this cartridge. I load black powder in a couple of cartridges myself. Just remember to use your brass volume measure. Whatever you do, do not use a smokeless powder measure to measure blackpowder. Unless all parts are made of brass. Measures made with steel and/or plastic can cause black powder to ignite. Steel against steel can create a spark and plastic has static electricity that can cause ignition. Also, you want to either fill the case to the bottom of the seated bullet with BP or if you don't want to do that then you need to use a filler material to fill the airspace in the cartridge. BP cannot be used to partially fill a case. It will cause pressure spikes. Us BP shooters commonly use corn meal, cream of wheat or grits as the inert filler material. This is for BP only. For loading with Hodgdon's BP substitutes please read the following data: https://www.hodgdon.com/loading.html and I recommend you purchase (Or borrow) the Lyman Black Powder Handbook. And if you load cast bullets in other cartridges then the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook is a must as well.

Dave,
Thanks for the update. I'm on hold until this loading issue is figured out. I'll read the material tonight.
Thanks again,
Mort

Dave,
First off, thanks for all your information, I really appreciate it. I haven’t reloaded these cartridges before, I’m used to 357 and 38 Special, and 32 ACP.  And I can use W231 and Unique and all the normal Lee powder measure, balance scales and electronic scales. The new stuff is quite frustrating, interesting and fun. I've read all your info.
The Smith & Wesson Victory Model I have is from the 1940’s and is the 38 S&W cartridge. Basically, the only load you can buy for this is a 145 gr. LRN ammo. For loading my own, I’ll probably use the 145 gr. LRN bullet with 2.3 grains of W231. If I was going to use Trail Boss, I’ll use your formula measuring the case, bullet, etc. The only 38 S&W black powder ammo I can find is from Buffalo Arms and it’s 38 S&W Black Powder Ammo .358, 150 gr. RN hollow base bullet, 650 fps., for $51.33 for 50.
For the 1907 H&A Safety Police Top Break, I’d use the same measuring formula and use Trail Boss, or BP. One formula suggests using 70% of the measured weight and use it as a starting load. I guess I could use Triple 7 also, but I think I should research Triple 7 more.
I’ve got the Richard Lee Second Edition Reloading Manual. I’ll check out the Lyman Handbook and compare.

mauiboi9
Have you attended the shotgun shoot on Sunday at Ukumehame? How is it? Also, you mention that a friend instructs a dnlr class for black powder hunting. Tell me more about that. Where do they hold it, are they hunting on Maui, both revolvers and rifles, etc. Do they have separate shooting dates at Ukumehame range for practice?
Thanks for the upcoming info.
Mort

Dave,
First off, thanks for all your information, I really appreciate it. I haven’t reloaded these cartridges before, I’m used to 357 and 38 Special, and 32 ACP.  And I can use W231 and Unique and all the normal Lee powder measure, balance scales and electronic scales. The new stuff is quite frustrating, interesting and fun. I've read all your info.
The Smith & Wesson Victory Model I have is from the 1940’s and is the 38 S&W cartridge. Basically, the only load you can buy for this is a 145 gr. LRN ammo. For loading my own, I’ll probably use the 145 gr. LRN bullet with 2.3 grains of W231. If I was going to use Trail Boss, I’ll use your formula measuring the case, bullet, etc. The only 38 S&W black powder ammo I can find is from Buffalo Arms and it’s 38 S&W Black Powder Ammo .358, 150 gr. RN hollow base bullet, 650 fps., for $51.33 for 50.
For the 1907 H&A Safety Police Top Break, I’d use the same measuring formula and use Trail Boss, or BP. One formula suggests using 70% of the measured weight and use it as a starting load. I guess I could use Triple 7 also, but I think I should research Triple 7 more.
I’ve got the Richard Lee Second Edition Reloading Manual. I’ll check out the Lyman Handbook and compare.

mauiboi9
Have you attended the shotgun shoot on Sunday at Ukumehame? How is it? Also, you mention that a friend instructs a dnlr class for black powder hunting. Tell me more about that. Where do they hold it, are they hunting on Maui, both revolvers and rifles, etc. Do they have separate shooting dates at Ukumehame range for practice?
Thanks for the upcoming info.
Mort

Watch out for that 70% formula. I think it is supposed to apply only to rifle cartridges. I could be wrong as I am at work and cannot verify it at this time. It is from my memory which sometimes is not that great.