Not JUST Israel.  You didn't read the long post I pasted with all the intel reports and state department assessments decade after decade, not to mention Russia providing technology and assistance in defiance of sanctions.  Iran is not "doing nothing."

The threat is real.  Why do million have to die from a nuclear blast for you to believe it?  Why are you willing to stand idly by while Iran works toward the creation of nuclear weapons?  Meanwhile Obama is REDUCING the inventory of US nukes to a pre-Cold War level.

When the Iranians pray publicly for the destruction of not just Israel, but every Jew on Earth, I consider that a "threat", not just "something I don't like to hear".

Why do the police need to have probable cause before getting a warrant? Were the actions of the US government justified in the Waco seige because a group of Christians were praying and preparing for the end of days to come? Is the US government justified in raiding the homes of people that purchase weapons to defend themselves from government tyranny?

If Iran truly hates Jews and wants to kill them all why haven't they purged them from within their own country? This is not an act of antisemitism as "bibi" would have you believe. The irrational belief that threatening attack another country before it attacks you is going to fix things is mind numbingly illogical. There are Jewish organizations that will and do protest the fear mongering of the Israel lobby and they condemn any preemptive action taken Iran in the name of Israel.

It is not an never will be the job of the US government to send young Americans to die involuntarily for the defense of another nation. if people want so badly to take part in such actions they can go to Israel themselves. Your list of accusations and US court trials performed absentia of Iran being there to defend themselves is not proof of anything and boils down to being nothing more than an echo chamber of war mongering set against nothing more than a strawman in the hopes of fooling the public into believing that Iran is the aggressor in this conflict.

How many US men and women are you willing to send to die in Iran for Israel?
How many men are you ready to call up through the draft to occupy Iran?
How many more broken men and women are you willing to see come home from yet another war that served no defense of American sovereignty?
How many more years of war do you want the War on Terror*  to last?
How many other countries do you want to drag into this war with the US government?

Don't feed the troll.

Don't feed the troll.

Is that what you can a rational objective argument with actual understandings of the tensions leading to the situation we currently have?

Is that what you call a person that actually questions your unwavering dedication to a foreign interest?

I could just as easily demand the US declare war on China to protect Taiwan and the Philippines from the threat of Chinese invasion, which actually has the Chinese setting up naval bases on the territorial waters of the Philippines and the fact that China already has nukes and they have thee capabilities to launch them to around the globe. With an actual history of invading both nations. BUT I DON'T, because war is the easiest answer with the highest price.

Everyone here has seen the claims of Israel being the civilized man, but the civilized man does not strike first.

Why do the police need to have probable cause before getting a warrant? Were the actions of the US government justified in the Waco seige because a group of Christians were praying and preparing for the end of days to come? Is the US government justified in raiding the homes of people that purchase weapons to defend themselves from government tyranny?

If Iran truly hates Jews and wants to kill them all why haven't they purged them from within their own country? This is not an act of antisemitism as "bibi" would have you believe. The irrational belief that threatening attack another country before it attacks you is going to fix things is mind numbingly illogical. There are Jewish organizations that will and do protest the fear mongering of the Israel lobby and they condemn any preemptive action taken Iran in the name of Israel.

It is not an never will be the job of the US government to send young Americans to die involuntarily for the defense of another nation. if people want so badly to take part in such actions they can go to Israel themselves. Your list of accusations and US court trials performed absentia of Iran being there to defend themselves is not proof of anything and boils down to being nothing more than an echo chamber of war mongering set against nothing more than a strawman in the hopes of fooling the public into believing that Iran is the aggressor in this conflict.

How many US men and women are you willing to send to die in Iran for Israel?
How many men are you ready to call up through the draft to occupy Iran?
How many more broken men and women are you willing to see come home from yet another war that served no defense of American sovereignty?
How many more years of war do you want the War on Terror*  to last?
How many other countries do you want to drag into this war with the US government?

If your objective is to never participate in another war, that's simple!!

1.  Change the Constitution so we don't have a legal responsibility to provide for our own defense,
2.  Scrap our military.
3.  Sell off or destroy every weapon, machine, piece of personal gear, and round of ammunition to foreign buyers (I bet Mexico has a few buyers that we already have their numbers)..
4.  Stop all foreign aid to every single non-US entity in all forms.
5.  Start requiring more foreign language classes in schools for all students, to include Chinese, Korean, Arabic, and Russian.

Now we just sit back all peaceful and non-interfering while we wait for the first attack.  No matter who it is, we'll be prepared to serve our new masters by having the language skills to understand their commands.

And don't say we should just keep enough weapons to defend the US.  Just because WE didn't start it doesn't mean we ought to participate in war -- offense or defense matters not! 

The objective is to avoid death and wars, so being able to defend our nation is off the table.

I intend to start a new thread:  "NOW THAT THE US IS UNDER MUSLIM CONTROL, DO YOU PREFER STONING OR BEHEADING FOR ALL INFIDELS?"

Aegis808

You are talking to people who are spoonfed propaganda bullshit all day and eat it up like hotcakes. There's no historical, lawful, or moral arguments that can touch their brainwashed consumer caveman logic. At least not until they finally wake up and realize that everything they believe is a lie.

Aegis808

You are talking to people who are spoonfed propaganda bullshit all day and eat it up like hotcakes. There's no historical, lawful, or moral arguments that can touch their brainwashed consumer caveman logic. At least not until they finally wake up and realize that everything they believe is a lie.

I'm on the same page with you hvy.

It is embarrassing to see that my words have not hit their intended mark. I only wish my concepts could be heard with better clarity.

I must have confused this forum to be a place filled with rational adults capable of making logical  thought patterns based on facts and evidence. Only to find I am rebutted by viritol and appeals to empathy. The blatantly xenophobic attitude toward free and open trade, save nothing to mention the amount of blind nationalism toward a government most here seem to be in agreement about being over reaching and completely unaccountable to their own actions when it comes to gun rights.

All logic and rational thinking seems to be thrown out the window at the mere hint that our "democratic" "ally" Israel is possibly in danger from a threat that has never attacked it.

When it comes time for the US government to work "together" with allies in the nation you don't ever see the IDF in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Lebannon, UAE, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Libya, or Egypt.

So hungry for war you all are. You want war you go there your own, and take your family with you.

Smedley Butler and Dwight Eisenhower saw the dangers that our military was becoming and how it no longer served the interests of the American public.

War is a racket and the fools advocating for it that get no benefit from it are the ones that drag us all along while waving the flag and hiding behind it at the same time.

If we go to war with Iran the US government will have to call for the draft.
Another generation of men will go off to die in a foreign land far from the land they swore to protect.
Another war will go down in history where the US gains no territory and withdraws in disgrace.
The national debt will only grow larger
Millions will die

while nationalist will say,
"we never lost because we killed more of them than they killed us, we spent more money than they did."
"we were there to build a democracy"
"we were to heavily invested to turn back"

The point is you tried, and are still trying. People who wake up to this level of betrayal tend to either drink themselves to death or lash out like wounded animals. It's better to introduce the concepts now and hope something sticks rather than scrape 'em off the sidewalk once empire runs it's inevitable course. At least you're not on the Mainland. God help those poor unfortunate souls.

For the record, no one has done that in this thread that I recall.

i didnt say anyone did that, but its happened before on this board in past times that israel was brought up (and whne it hasnt).  it was a warning not a response. 

i didnt say anyone did that, but its happened before on this board in past times that israel was brought up (and whne it hasnt).  it was a warning not a response.

Just fanning the flames again ....  as usual.

I believe the label for that is "trolling."

Just fanning the flames again ....  as usual.

I believe the label for that is "trolling."

i am not doing this to piss people off.  its not trolling.  i said it merely because i've topics like this get ugly, and we all know outside people read this. 

i am not doing this to piss people off.  its not trolling.  i said it merely because i've topics like this get ugly, and we all know outside people read this.

So, nobody in this thread mentioned "the wholesale generalization of muslims as extremists" until you brought it up.

Glad you prevented that embarrassment!!

So, nobody in this thread mentioned "the wholesale generalization of muslims as extremists" until you brought it up.

Glad you prevented that embarrassment!!

Jesus.  because i was profiling them right?  so embarrassing.

not everything has to be a petty argument.

Jesus.  because i was profiling them right?  so embarrassing.

not everything has to be a petty argument.

I'm not arguing, other than to call you out for making a troll-worthy comment.  I didn't appreciate you making accusatory comments about being bigoted when that wasn't happening in any way, shape or form.  I considered that rather insulting, actually.

Why not go ahead and warn of making disparaging remarks about
Gays,
Blacks,
The Handicapped,
Old People,
Any Religion, and
Any Nationality?

If you're truly worried about embarrassing remarks, then don't stop with Muslim Extremists.  We haven't posted any bigoted remarks about those other groups either, but you know that would be just as embarrassing!

 

just so long as everyone is discussing generalizations of who is a terrorist nation

I thought they were talking about trolls?

I prefer to not get involved in these emotion charged discussions. However, Aegis said a couple of things I want to address here. I have a few close friends that are refuges from Iran (Actually they consider themselves Persians). I also have some friends and family that are refuges from the former USSR and present day Russia. Not to mention I have close family members that are still alive that lived through the holocaust at Auschwitz and I have close family members that presently live in Israel. And for the most part they all tell me similar stories. I have no reason to doubt them nor do I doubt their stories.

If Iran truly hates Jews and wants to kill them all why haven't they purged them from within their own country? This is not an act of antisemitism as "bibi" would have you believe. The irrational belief that threatening attack another country before it attacks you is going to fix things is mind numbingly illogical. There are Jewish organizations that will and do protest the fear mongering of the Israel lobby and they condemn any preemptive action taken Iran in the name of Israel.

There are two parts to the leadership in Iran. Political and Spiritual/Religious. Unfortunately, the political portion is controlled and is a puppet to the Religious part. Iran as a government does not "hate" Jews. I am not sure how a political entity can "Hate" anything. But if you look at Iran's history you will see hundreds of years of Jewish persecution and Jewish Genocide. And at some times, Jewish support. Speaking in the present. The reality of the stories I am told are that most of the Jews have to stay within their neighborhoods. And it is common for any Jew who wanders outside their areas to be stoned to death. Also, it is not uncommon for Jews to just disappear or to be taken by the police when they are open about communicating with Jews in Israel. For the most part they cannot be seen as Jewish when they leave their neighborhoods. They have to hide their religious beliefs when not around other Jews. While the government outwardly does not condemn Jews they are treated as second class citizens. But the real persecution comes from the religious leaders. The ones that control the government and the country as a whole. So the official stand on Jews by the government is acceptable to the world. And specifically our politicians. But the religious leaders feel that they can get away with spewing their vitriol towards Jews and Israel. The religious leaders want to have Jews killed because they teach their Sharia Law that all Jews are filthy lower than dog shit scum. SInce the majority of the Iranian population is muslim they also believe that all Jews are filthy lower than dog shit scum. Persecution of Jews while not legal per the government, is accepted and encouraged by the religious leaders.

We are negotiating a nuclear treaty with Iran's supreme religious leader through a government puppet. The Ayatollah Khomeini is Iran's supreme religious leader and leader of the country. He himself has threatened Israel with total annihilation. He Tweeted it in English. How many people in Iran can read English? How many even have Internet access? And of those how many have access to Twitter?  He is threatening Israel directly by doing this. He teaches hate and persecution towards the lower than dog shit scum Jews. He encourages stoning and killing of Jews. He is playing our political leaders in the same way you state our scripted news agencies play us. Our politicians deal strictly with the Iranian government and ignores the religious aspects even though it is a well known fact they are one in the same. To do so could jeopardize the lives of innocent Jews in Israel. We all have to agree that the religious leaders want Israel wiped off the map. You cannot argue with that. Taking into consideration the radical and mind numbingly illogical behavior of radical muslims and radical muslim religious leaders such as Iran's leader you should take them at their word. They are evil people and evil people commit atrocities. Allow them to develop nuclear weapons and Iran will use them in the same way a radical muslim suicide bomber kills as many Jews as he can in Israel. Our goverment is making Iran's desire to wipe Israel and Jews off the map a reality.

I don't know about you, but I lost almost 100 relatives in the holocaust. I take all threats of genocide seriously. Obviously, Israel does as well. As should our government.

You state that it is irrational to think a preemptive strike won't solve the problem. And it is mind numbingly illogical to think it will. Actually the truth is you are right it won't solve the problem of Jewish persecution and hatred. But that is not the problem that Israel is trying to solve. They realize that there is going to be Jew hatred no matter what they say or do. History proves that. They are trying to solve the problem of Jewish Genocide. And as much as you would like to argue, the fact is a preemptive strike will at a minimum keep Jewish Genocide from occurring  for an extended period of time.

just so long as everyone is discussing generalizations of who is a terrorist nation

Well it can't be the US that is a terrorist nation in this case. A terrorist nation would not have agreed with the International Court of Justice and pay reparations to Iran for what happened. A terrorist nation does not recognize the International Court nor would they abide by the findings of the court. Just because we did not verbally apologize for what occurred. We did the right thing and paid reparations to Iran and the families of the dead. When you post these emotion jarring graphics without telling the whole story it is like lying. If you tell the whole truth it seems like the US is not a terrorist nation after all in this case. You lose a lot of credibility when you post crap like this.

Well it can't be the US that is a terrorist nation in this case. A terrorist nation would not have agreed with the International Court of Justice and pay reparations to Iran for what happened. A terrorist nation does not recognize the International Court nor would they abide by the findings of the court. Just because we did not verbally apologize for what occurred. We did the right thing and paid reparations to Iran and the families of the dead. When you post these emotion jarring graphics without telling the whole story it is like lying. If you tell the whole truth it seems like the US is not a terrorist nation after all in this case. You lose a lot of credibility when you post crap like this.

 

Why not go ahead and warn of making disparaging remarks about
Gays,
Blacks,
The Handicapped,
Old People,
Any Religion, and
Any Nationality?

Totally out of context but OK. I'll bite.

Please don't make disparaging remarks about the above. (Unless it's truly how you feel then we'll know how you roll...homophobe, racist, religious extremist (Muslim, Christian or otherwise), extreme Nationalist. I don't even know what to call a person who rips on the handicapped.

I appreciate the centrist, more liberal comments on this forum for discussion.

Also, Why would we pay reparations and not apologize ? How is that the right thing ?

Yeah. We killed your parents, your kids, your brother and sister....but We're not sorry. Here's a few bucks.  Now we feel better. 

Yeah we struck numerous civilians in multiple countries with mistaken drone, missile and artillery strikes but we are not terrorists. We're just trying to do the right thing.

Anything can be spun and the whole story is hard to tell if no one has the whole story. Try to view it from the other people's shoes.

Damn. Got to go put on my tinfoil hat.