"armor piercing" ammo ban BACK!!! (Read 11096 times)

Veurs1911

"armor piercing" ammo ban BACK!!!
« on: March 16, 2015, 04:04:07 PM »
Mods, I put this in general discussion instead of legal section is because I think everyone needs to see this, but feel free to move it if you wish.

Anyways...


Just when ATF claimed to have withdrew the BAN on M855/SS109 .62gr "green tip" now the ban is officially introduced into legislation... supply and demand will rise as well, we need to have everything readily affordable, aside from the ban, the effects means higher cost on all other ammo, to the point where people can't afford it is exactly what "they" want, its another de facto gun control tactic

heres the article:

ARMOR PIERCING AMMO ACT

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/03/16/the-atfs-ammo-ban-is-backin-the-form-of-a-new-bill-from-democrats/
"rather be judged by 12, then carried by 6"

"better to have one and not need it, than to need one and not have it"

"know guns, no crime, no guns, know crime"

beekeeping1341

Re: "armor piercing" ammo ban BACK!!!
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2015, 05:09:23 PM »
It'll get shot down, the house and senate are filled with enough republicans to stop any shenanigans they might try to pull for the next couple years. Thank God
I sure as hell don't need a permit to choose my religion, so why the hell do I need a permit to acquire a firearm?

ren

Re: "armor piercing" ammo ban BACK!!!
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2015, 05:40:13 PM »
MUDDABIOTCH!
The voice of da people ain't loud enuff!
Deeds Not Words

suka

Re: "armor piercing" ammo ban BACK!!!
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2015, 06:04:06 PM »
A different bill introduced by GOP members , will lift all ban towards rifle ammunition , thus allowing imports off chinese and Russian ammunition .

Veurs1911

Re: "armor piercing" ammo ban BACK!!!
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2015, 06:12:31 PM »
yeah too much people feel "hopeless" and think its pointless to use the 1st when they already decided to ban it regardless, while i feel the same and however true to a certain extent, we should put up a fight anyways, i will fight along side and remain vigilant. complacency will cost us our freedoms. i hope the republicans in office will keep them in check, however i won't underestimate them, i give it to the anti-gun libtards for their persistence, however they still won't beat us when it comes to it. if there's any links of more petitions and what not, post the link, everyone should sign it.
"rather be judged by 12, then carried by 6"

"better to have one and not need it, than to need one and not have it"

"know guns, no crime, no guns, know crime"

paka808

Re: "armor piercing" ammo ban BACK!!!
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2015, 06:13:52 PM »
A different bill introduced by GOP members , will lift all ban towards rifle ammunition , thus allowing imports off chinese and Russian ammunition .
That's what I'm talking about!! :shaka:

Veurs1911

Re: "armor piercing" ammo ban BACK!!!
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2015, 06:17:20 PM »
i hope they pass that bill that lifts all the ammo ban, so that way we can get cheap chinese surplus 7.62x39mm, and the 7n6 5.45x39mm can come back, how about any actual armor piercing or incendiary ammunition?
"rather be judged by 12, then carried by 6"

"better to have one and not need it, than to need one and not have it"

"know guns, no crime, no guns, know crime"

mauidog

Re: "armor piercing" ammo ban BACK!!!
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2015, 08:56:18 PM »
Quote
In a Senate Appropriations Committee hearing, ATF Director B. Todd Jones said
all types of the 5.56 military-style ammo used by shooters
pose a threat to police
as more people buy the AR-15-style pistols.

“Any 5.56 round” is “a challenge for officer safety,” he said. Jones asked lawmakers to
help in a review of a 1986 bill written to protect police from so-called “cop killer” rounds
that largely exempted rifle ammo like the 5.56 because it has been used by target shooters,
not criminals.

http://bearingarms.com/atf-chief-suggests-5-56-ammo-threat-law-enforcement/?utm_source=bafbp&utm_medium=fbpage&utm_campaign=baupdate
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

Veurs1911

Re: "armor piercing" ammo ban BACK!!!
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2015, 02:04:05 AM »
the anti's are using cops to justify banning the ammo, but didn't just recently the largest american police fraternity discredited all the claims they were making that m855 is a cop killer, they said that while any type of ammo is bad in criminal hands, the m855 specifically doesn't pose a threat to law enforcement. i'm just going off of memory here, but i believe they said something like this
"rather be judged by 12, then carried by 6"

"better to have one and not need it, than to need one and not have it"

"know guns, no crime, no guns, know crime"

mauidog

Re: "armor piercing" ammo ban BACK!!!
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2015, 02:15:32 AM »
the anti's are using cops to justify banning the ammo, but didn't just recently the largest american police fraternity discredited all the claims they were making that m855 is a cop killer, they said that while any type of ammo is bad in criminal hands, the m855 specifically doesn't pose a threat to law enforcement. i'm just going off of memory here, but i believe they said something like this

Something like that ...

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2015/03/04/Police-union-556mm-ammo-ban-unnecessary/3551425517494/
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

edster48

Re: "armor piercing" ammo ban BACK!!!
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2015, 05:24:31 AM »
The anti's are just trying a different tack.

If they can get this through, they are on their way to being able to control the entire ammunition supply in the country. Virtually ALL centerfire rifle cartridges are capable of defeating level III body armor. How long before they figure out that a .308 round from an AR-10 is even worse than a 5.56 round? Even if we were to believe they don't already know this, we can see this as an obvious end around. If they can't ban the gun, they'll ban the ammo. This is just a "foot in the door", if they get this passed expect it to expand to virtually all rifle calibers.

I'd like to think that this would be stopped by the Republican controlled Congress, but after they caved so quickly on the immigration deal my confidence isn't so high.
I think Boner will sell us out for whatever will put some money or power in his pockets.

Just my opinion.
Always be yourself.
Unless you can be a pirate.
Then always be a pirate.

mauidog

Re: "armor piercing" ammo ban BACK!!!
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2015, 09:04:43 AM »
Trying to control the ammo supply is not a solution.

The problem is not the ammo.  It's the armor.

They should pass a law that Cops have to wear Level 4 armor and a trauma pad.  That's a better solution. 
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

xer 21

Re: "armor piercing" ammo ban BACK!!!
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2015, 05:40:09 PM »
Trying to control the ammo supply is not a solution.

The problem is not the ammo.  It's the armor.

They should pass a law that Cops have to wear Level 4 armor and a trauma pad.  That's a better solution.
the best solution is to enter reality and realize that criminals rarely use rifles

edster48

Re: "armor piercing" ammo ban BACK!!!
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2015, 05:49:45 PM »
Trying to control the ammo supply is not a solution.

The problem is not the ammo.  It's the armor.

They should pass a law that Cops have to wear Level 4 armor and a trauma pad.  That's a better solution. 

Great idea!

Too bad they aren't looking for solutions. If they were we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Always be yourself.
Unless you can be a pirate.
Then always be a pirate.

macsak

Re: "armor piercing" ammo ban BACK!!!
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2015, 05:58:44 PM »
the best solution is to enter reality and realize that criminals rarely use rifles

actually, their reasoning is that AR pistols use this ammo
and so it should be banned because all the criminals are going to be running around with ar pistols shooting through LE body armor

xer 21

Re: "armor piercing" ammo ban BACK!!!
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2015, 11:22:05 PM »
actually, their reasoning is that AR pistols use this ammo
and so it should be banned because all the criminals are going to be running around with ar pistols shooting through LE body armor
i know their reasoning, but realistically, AR pistols are really just SBRs...i mean, lets just be honest.  all it is is thumbing our noses at the ATF for assuming that people couldnt get the weight of these guns under the limit. 

edster48

Re: "armor piercing" ammo ban BACK!!!
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2015, 05:06:53 AM »
i know their reasoning, but realistically, AR pistols are really just SBRs...i mean, lets just be honest.  all it is is thumbing our noses at the ATF for assuming that people couldnt get the weight of these guns under the limit. 

Agreed. Spending $600 - $800 to produce what is one of the most awkward to use and least concealable "pistols" ever conceived hardly represents a realistic threat to LE.  I've never seen the point, except as a way around the SBR rules or a conversation piece.
Always be yourself.
Unless you can be a pirate.
Then always be a pirate.

mauidog

Re: "armor piercing" ammo ban BACK!!!
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2015, 08:16:36 AM »
Agreed. Spending $600 - $800 to produce what is one of the most awkward to use and least concealable "pistols" ever conceived hardly represents a realistic threat to LE.  I've never seen the point, except as a way around the SBR rules or a conversation piece.

Not only that, but how many criminals PLAN to run into the Cops while committing a crime?  When they carry, they anticipate confronting their victim, a drug dealer or some rival gang member as their target.  Those people I would bet are NOT wearing body armor.  The crooks are going to carry the gun they bought from a pawn shop, stole from a home, or bought on the black market.  Something tells me the selection of those will be common, conventional handguns and NOT rifle receivers converted into pistols.
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

punaperson

Re: "armor piercing" ammo ban BACK!!!
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2015, 08:43:12 AM »
A different bill introduced by GOP members , will lift all ban towards rifle ammunition , thus allowing imports off chinese and Russian ammunition .
It's H.R. 1365, email our reps and let them know you support it and ask them to support it (as if).

McHenry Acts To Thwart Obama Admin Attempts To Ban Common Rifle Ammo

http://bearingarms.com/mchenry-acts-thwart-obama-admin-attempts-ban-common-rifle-ammo/

Excerpt:

Congress and the NRA are not taking the Obama Administration’s threats to the nation’s ammunition supply lying down, and are instead firing back to protect all rifle ammunition for ATF overreach and abuse.
.....
You’ll note that the bill would affect “any ban on the sale and manufacture of ammunition that is intended, marketed, and sold for rifle use,” meaning it would not just protect against future attempts to ban M855, but would presumably roll back existing bans on other kinds of rifle ammunition.

This would ensure that any existing surplus of non-Russian 7N6 ammunition could be imported. It’s less clear if the dwindling surplus of Russian 7N6 would be affected, as the ban on Russian 7N6 was part of economic sanctions placed on Russia by the White House in response to Russia’s support of rebel forces in Ukraine.

The act would also presumably allow the re-importation of the Chinese M43 cartridge. The M43 is the original cartridge for the 7.62×39 AK series of rifles. Featuring a steel core, the M43 was a failure as a military bullet because it was incredible stable, and “ice-picked” through the bodies of enemy soldiers with relatively little damage, mimicking the wounding behavior of a low-powered, non-expanding handgun round. This is irrelevant to American shooters, who merely desire an inexpensive round to shoot at targets.

suka

Re: "armor piercing" ammo ban BACK!!!
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2015, 08:45:25 AM »
Did  anyone know that turning your own .224 brass bullets on your lathe at home is a AP bullet. and ILLEGAL.

Well story goes that I wanted to try and load some brass bullets into the FN 5.7 pistol. Thinking of making of a lite, high velocity round to penetrate soft armor.  I was advised not to which is in violation of federal laws.

Federal laws prohibits manufacturing of AP projectiles. Reloading is not manufacturing and is ok, but turning a brass bullet on a lathe is manufacturing a AP bullet.

Thus, one may have possession, sale or reload AP ammunition. However, may not manufacture the projectile for any handgun caliber.