The Hawaii Administrative Procedure Act (Read 20129 times)

spacegoat

Re: The Hawaii Administrative Procedure Act
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2015, 12:33:37 PM »
Thank you Suka for assistance.
It is my pistol that has been held for months with no response except for today.
I have been informed by an assistant to the LT. that it will not be returned nor registered and I was "supposed" to have received a letter...
I will wait until I receive that notice to act further but would appreciated guidance. 

Not like I did not expect resistance...knowing that no one I knew registered one here before...but now stuff got real.

suka

Re: The Hawaii Administrative Procedure Act
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2015, 12:47:47 PM »
your next step before you get the letter would be to file a stolen firearms report and a motion to sue since the PD  did not offer a receipt for custody of your firearm.

This would at least keep it in evidence and your firearm from getting destroyed.

It will be a civil suit to recover property.
Can't help you on the lawyer part.

asinapple8805

Re: The Hawaii Administrative Procedure Act
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2015, 01:51:18 PM »
Although the procedure is less than desirable now, it could be a lot worse.

Instead of confiscating, what could happen is the police department decides not to allow you to register your receiver.  The entire time the police department could be calling the district court and attempting to secure a search warrant.

After they secure the warrant, they would let you walk out of the station.  The moment you step foot onto the sidewalk, the police could execute the warrant, and find the receiver.

At that point, they could arrest you on the spot for having an illegal firearm, in which case you'd be arrested and charged with a crime.

mauidog

Re: The Hawaii Administrative Procedure Act
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2015, 05:11:53 PM »
Although the procedure is less than desirable now, it could be a lot worse.

Instead of confiscating, what could happen is the police department decides not to allow you to register your receiver.  The entire time the police department could be calling the district court and attempting to secure a search warrant.

After they secure the warrant, they would let you walk out of the station.  The moment you step foot onto the sidewalk, the police could execute the warrant, and find the receiver.

At that point, they could arrest you on the spot for having an illegal firearm, in which case you'd be arrested and charged with a crime.

I don't understand why a warrant is needed.  The owner already incriminated himself when he produced the receiver trying to register it.  Plain sight, and all that.
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

asinapple8805

Re: The Hawaii Administrative Procedure Act
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2015, 06:54:10 PM »
I don't understand why a warrant is needed.  The owner already incriminated himself when he produced the receiver trying to register it.  Plain sight, and all that.

A warrant probably isn't needed, but I'm assuming that the arresting officer would be different from the person at the firearms registration.  Also, i'm assuming that the arrestee will put their firearm into a sealed container before leaving the police department.

If that's the case, then an officer might need a warrant to open the bag, discover that there's an illegal firearm, and subsequently arrest the person.  The Constitution limits an officer's power to use a Terry stop, and without more facts, i don't think that one could be justified in this case.

The worst part about all of this is, even if the officer has no real reason to arrest you, but does, and even if your case gets thrown out, you'll still have to retain counsel.  Assuming that you don't qualify for a public defender, which you probably won't, a lawyer might still cost you a grand or more.

mauidog

Re: The Hawaii Administrative Procedure Act
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2015, 10:06:18 PM »
A warrant probably isn't needed, but I'm assuming that the arresting officer would be different from the person at the firearms registration.  Also, i'm assuming that the arrestee will put their firearm into a sealed container before leaving the police department.

If that's the case, then an officer might need a warrant to open the bag, discover that there's an illegal firearm, and subsequently arrest the person.  The Constitution limits an officer's power to use a Terry stop, and without more facts, i don't think that one could be justified in this case.

The worst part about all of this is, even if the officer has no real reason to arrest you, but does, and even if your case gets thrown out, you'll still have to retain counsel.  Assuming that you don't qualify for a public defender, which you probably won't, a lawyer might still cost you a grand or more.

I think a more realistic scenario is, the firearms div officer confiscates the receiver and bags it as evidence  The report is forwarded to the AG's office, and they decide whether the case needs punishment.  If so, they will ask for an arrest warrant, and the owner will get a knock at his door.

By attempting to register, it's obvious the intent was to follow the law.  Depending on the rest of the facts and the owner's arrest record, if any, the mistake will likely be overlooked.

If I were the owner, I would welcome the chance to have the police explain to a judge why they are unable to properly register a receiver which is not illegal according to the law as written.  If that doesn't make them clean up their registration rules and processes, maybe a civil suit will.
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

Jdelacruz

Re: The Hawaii Administrative Procedure Act
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2015, 05:06:37 AM »
I emailed the firearms division last month concerning AR pistols. Here's the conversation.

Me:
Per HRS 91 State law requires documents used by an agency (county include) in discharging its functions must be made available to the public. I have heard about discrepancies in registering a purchased pistol lower receiver with a non-detachable magazine. Before spending money on a project like this I'd like to know where I can get the rules the Firearms division uses to determine what can be registered. Thank you.

HPD Firearms Section
Quote
Please look under the Hawaii Revised Statues 134-1 Definition, Assault Pistol.

This type of pistol is only legal now because of the wording "detachable magazine".  When the loophole is written out of future laws the pistols will become illegal.

Me
Per HRS 91 I would like to be pointed to clear and officially published document that department employees use to make the determination of what is or is not a detachable magazine.

HPD Firearms Section
Quote
All technical questions referring to firearms make, model, and detachable magazines are referred to the BATF.

I was thinking of taking this email conversation in case I have any issues.

suka

Re: The Hawaii Administrative Procedure Act
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2015, 06:38:18 AM »
 :thumbsup:
loophole

seems they want to bring the definition up for a revision in the future.

Jdelacruz

Re: The Hawaii Administrative Procedure Act
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2015, 06:47:29 AM »
I sent an email to BATF asking for the official definition of detachable magazine. As soon as I get that I will post the response. So AR pistols are legal and looks like they will go by ATF's definition of detachable. Any shenanigans done by the firearms division to not let you register them is illegal on their part. They are enforcers of written law, they do not make the law or operate on what they think what "future laws" will be. Frankly I was surprised they put that in writing.

suka

Re: The Hawaii Administrative Procedure Act
« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2015, 07:04:23 AM »
I already have a official letterhead ATF letter from tech branch in VA;  which they do not determine detachable magazines, they referred it over the the local authority.  As quoted ,it is not mandated nor mentioned by federal laws. They ATF has no jurisdiction on that matter.

HPD is blowing it up there ass again!


They will take a few years to hatch out a new law and definition. but it will take me only 30 min to review understand and order new parts for a legal firearm.

Q

Re: The Hawaii Administrative Procedure Act
« Reply #30 on: May 13, 2015, 07:27:17 AM »
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« Last Edit: March 02, 2021, 05:52:36 PM by Q »

Jdelacruz

Re: The Hawaii Administrative Procedure Act
« Reply #31 on: May 13, 2015, 07:38:11 AM »
Good luck with the local BATF; they are just as bad as the firearms section with regards to making their own laws up.

I sent it to their NFA@atf.com. I'm assuming that's the national office.

Jdelacruz

Re: The Hawaii Administrative Procedure Act
« Reply #32 on: May 13, 2015, 07:40:05 AM »
I already have a official letterhead ATF letter from tech branch in VA;  which they do not determine detachable magazines, they referred it over the the local authority.  As quoted ,it is not mandated nor mentioned by federal laws. They ATF has no jurisdiction on that matter.

HPD is blowing it up there ass again!


They will take a few years to hatch out a new law and definition. but it will take me only 30 min to review understand and order new parts for a legal firearm.

Thanks for that info. I can now respond that ATF passes the back to them and they need to define it in their own procedural documents.

Q

Re: The Hawaii Administrative Procedure Act
« Reply #33 on: May 13, 2015, 07:42:25 AM »
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« Last Edit: March 02, 2021, 05:52:54 PM by Q »

asinapple8805

Re: The Hawaii Administrative Procedure Act
« Reply #34 on: May 13, 2015, 09:03:03 AM »
I think that bringing a HAPA claim will be pretty trivial.  I doubt that the courts will agree with the theoretical arguments made in this thread.  I'll point you to the case In Interest of Doe, 844 P.2d 679, 9 Haw.App.  (Haw. App. 1992).  In this case, it seems pretty clear that the court will not allow HAPA claims arguing a lack of promulgation of the regulations.  The case cites several other decisions as well, so I decided that this case might be the most persuasive.

here's the language of the opinion.

Opinion

PER CURIAM.

The Family Court of the Third Circuit entered a decree adjudging that Doe, a minor, was a law violator within the purview of Hawaii Revised Statutes (HRS) § 571–11(1) (1985) *407 for, inter alia, driving under the influence of intoxicating liquor (DUI) in violation of HRS § 291–4(a)(1) (1985).1 On appeal, Doe contends that the family court erred in denying Doe's motion to suppress evidence of the results of the field sobriety tests administered to him because the procedures regarding those tests had not been adopted pursuant to rule-making directives of HRS Chapter 91, the Hawaii Administrative Procedure Act (HAPA), by the Hawaii County Police Department (HCPD). We affirm.

FACTS

In the early morning hours of July 20, 1991, Doe was arrested and thereafter charged with (1) DUI; (2) driving through a red light in violation of HRS § 291C–32(a)(3A) (1985); and (3) driving with an expired safety sticker in violation of HRS § 286–25 (1985). Doe filed a motion to suppress “any and all evidence relating to the field sobriety tests and evidence derived as a result thereof[.]” Record at 15. On January 8, 1992, the family court held an evidentiary hearing on Doe's motion. The testimony of HCPD *408 Officer Martin Ellazar (Officer Ellazar) established the following facts.

At about 12:15 a.m. on July 20, 1991, Officer Ellazar observed Doe drive his vehicle through the intersection of Route 19 and Pukihae Street in South Hilo against a red traffic light. Officer Ellazar activated his blue light and stopped Doe. As Officer Ellazar approached Doe's vehicle from the rear, Doe got out of his vehicle to meet the officer. Officer Ellazar observed that the safety sticker on Doe's vehicle had expired and advised Doe of this violation. As Doe stood a foot away from him, Officer Ellazar detected “a very strong odor of an alcoholic beverage on his breath.” Trial Transcript at 9. The officer then advised Doe that he would administer field sobriety tests on Doe.

Prior to administering the field sobriety tests, Officer Ellazar asked Doe if he had any physical impairments. Upon receiving a negative reply, Officer Ellazar proceeded to administer to Doe five different field sobriety tests: (1) Horizontal Gaze Nystagmus test; (2) Walk-and-Turn test; (3) One–Leg Stand test; (4) Finger-to-Nose test; **681 and (5) Modified Rhomberg test (with heels together and hands down at his side, subject closes his eyes, tilts his head back, and counts backward). Officer Ellazar testified that Doe failed all five tests, so he arrested Doe for DUI.

Officer Ellazar also testified that he had been a police officer since 1985, he had a minimum of eight hours of classroom training and another eight hours of classroom training later relating to administering field sobriety tests. HCPD personnel conducted these training sessions. Officer Ellazar has administered field sobriety tests since becoming a police officer in 1985. He stated that field sobriety tests are routinely administered to a driver suspected of DUI, unless the driver is physically unable or refuses to undergo such tests. The HCPD has printed “Standardized Field Sobriety Tests Work Sheet” forms used by its police officers. State's Exhibit 1. These forms contain instructions to be given *409 to the driver being administered the tests and spaces to score the results for each of the five field sobriety tests. According to Officer Ellazar, based on his knowledge, “there were no administrative rules or regulations governing the administration of the field sobriety tests.” Record at 58.

At the close of the hearing, the family court denied Doe's motion to suppress. Thereafter, the jury-waived trial of the case commenced. The parties stipulated that the testimony and other evidence in the suppression hearing be made a part of the trial on the merits. The parties further stipulated that (1) after Doe's arrest, he was transported to the police station where he consented to take a breath test; and (2) the intoxilyzer breath test administered to Doe at 1:45 a.m. indicated a blood alcohol concentration of 0.091 percent. The family court adjudged that Doe was a law violator with respect to DUI,2 driving through a red light, and driving with an expired safety sticker.

After the denial of his motion for reconsideration, Doe timely appealed.3

*410 DISCUSSION

A state agency “must conform to the requirements of HAPA when acting in ... a rule making capacity (quasi-legislative)[.]” Town v. Land Use Comm'n, 55 Haw. 538, 545, 524 P.2d 84, 89 (1974); see also Sharma v. State, 66 Haw. 632, 637, 673 P.2d 1030, 1033 (1983). HAPA defines “agency” and “rule” as follows:

(1) “Agency” means each state or county board, commission, department, or officer authorized by law to make rules or to adjudicate contested cases, except those in the legislative or judicial branches.
* * * * * *
(4) “Rule” means each agency statement of general or particular applicability and future effect that implements, interprets, or prescribes law or policy, or describes the organization, procedure, or practice requirements of any agency. The term does not include regulations concerning only the internal management of an agency and not affecting private rights of or procedures available to the public, nor does the term include declaratory rulings issued **682 pursuant to section 91–8, nor intra-agency memoranda.
* * * * * *
HRS § 91–1 (1985).

Doe argues that (1) HCPD is an “agency” as defined in HAPA; (2) HCPD's field sobriety testing procedures are “rules” pursuant to HAPA; (3) because HCPD failed to conform to HAPA's rule-making requirements in adopting the field sobriety testing procedures, the procedures are invalid and unenforceable; (4) consequently, the family court should have suppressed the field sobriety test results which led to Doe's arrest for DUI; (5) without *411 the field sobriety test results, there was insufficient evidence that Doe was guilty of DUI beyond a reasonable doubt; and (6) therefore the family court's adjudication that Doe was a law violator for DUI must be reversed.

The HCPD is a county department authorized by law to make rules. Charter of the County of Hawaii sec. 7–2.3 (1980) (the police commission is authorized to adopt rules). We therefore agree that the HCPD is an “agency” required to conform to HAPA's rule-making requirements. However, we do not agree that the HCPD's field sobriety testing procedures constitute “rules” subject to HAPA's rule-making requirements.
HAPA itself excludes “regulations concerning only the internal management of an agency and not affecting private rights of or procedures available to the public” from its rule-making restraints. See Holdman v. Olim, 59 Haw. 346, 355, 581 P.2d 1164, 1170 (1978) (a directive controlling the dress of visitors to the Oahu State Prison). We conclude that the HCPD's field sobriety testing procedures fall within such exclusion and are not subject to HAPA's rule-making requirements.

In Doe v. Chang, 58 Haw. 94, 564 P.2d 1271 (1977), three welfare recipient plaintiffs sought injunctive relief from investigations and prosecutions of welfare fraud on the ground that the State welfare fraud procedures were invalid because the manual of instructions concerning welfare fraud investigations was not adopted in accordance with HAPA's rule-making requirements. The Hawaii Supreme Court disagreed with the plaintiffs, holding that the manual of instructions in question constituted “internal regulation contemplated by HRS § 91–1(4).” 58 Haw. at 96, 564 P.2d at 1273.

In State v. Fedak, 9 Haw.App. 98, 825 P.2d 1068 (1992), the Honolulu Police Department's (HPD) regulation that established the department's drunk driving prevention program, which included the authorization of sobriety roadblocks, was at issue. A DUI defendant, who had been stopped at a sobriety roadblock, *412 challenged the HPD regulation in question on the ground that it had not been promulgated in accordance with HAPA. This court held that the HPD regulation was an internal regulation within the definition of HRS § 91–1(4), stating:

[A]lthough HPD sobriety roadblocks unquestionably impinge on a driver's freedom of movement, [the HPD regulation's] procedures are aimed at prescribing and controlling the police officer's activities in order to minimize the intrusion on the driver's rights.
9 Haw.App. at 101, 825 P.2d at 1070.

The record in this case discloses that, like in Doe v. Chang, supra, the field sobriety testing procedures established by the HCPD were instructional in nature directed only to HCPD police officers. The procedures instructed the officers how to administer field sobriety tests to drivers reasonably believed to have been DUI, after they were properly stopped and ordered out of their cars.4 Also, although field sobriety tests intrude on drivers' rights as do sobriety roadblocks, HCPD's field sobriety testing procedures are aimed at assuring the proper and correct methods of administering the tests to drivers.

Consequently, those testing procedures concern only the “internal management” of the HCPD and do not affect “private rights **683 of or procedures available to the public” within the meaning of HAPA.

CONCLUSION

Accordingly, we hold that the HCPD's field sobriety testing procedures are not “rules” subject to the rule-making requirements of HAPA. Therefore, the family court did not err in denying Doe's motion to suppress evidence.
Affirmed.
Parallel Citations

844 P.2d 679

suka

Re: The Hawaii Administrative Procedure Act
« Reply #35 on: May 13, 2015, 03:28:55 PM »
Thanks for that info. I can now respond that ATF passes the back to them and they need to define it in their own procedural documents.

for muzzle devices , ATF requires silver solder, a non removable permanent pin or at least 2 clearly defined tack weld points . HPD should follow in this direction.

having to weld completely around is just overkill.

Don't push it to far or they may require it to completely weld over. Currently they require only that it doesn't wobble, and not just held by the mag catch.


spacegoat

Re: The Hawaii Administrative Procedure Act
« Reply #36 on: May 13, 2015, 04:25:53 PM »
Follow up... Wow got some action. I have been polite and explained the emphasis of non-detachable=none of the "assault pistol" features apply... I have received  4 phone calls from 2 separate clerks.  Well I can only speculate at this point, but no letter has gone out, but an explanation has been given.

I have been now inforrmed that my attachment ( clerk would not elaborate how) of the magazine has not passed the Majors inspection and although removal would destroy the receiver-, there is no mag catch to depress( I cut this off n after completely bottoming it out and attached a blind galvanized plate over it)

When I asked about the 80%...I was informed the LT n Kona Clerk were in error...training will take place. 80% and self manufacture is OK.

As to my firearm...I asked if I could address the Majors concerns regarding the attachment-fix it? Nope. Deemed illegal. My weld not good enough. I am being given the chance to transfer out of state. Details to follow, but I need to speak with an FFL who would cooperate.
I'm done I think.

Jdelacruz

Re: The Hawaii Administrative Procedure Act
« Reply #37 on: May 13, 2015, 07:47:15 PM »
Did you ask the major the written department rules and regulation that he used to make this determination? Such rules are required to be made public by law. Unless he is following a publicly available written rule he is violating your constitutional right to bear arms that are legal to own.

suka

Re: The Hawaii Administrative Procedure Act
« Reply #38 on: May 13, 2015, 10:21:53 PM »
Spacegoat, PM me your email. I'll give you my FFL and have it sent to me.

We can figure out what you want done to the receiver, send it back to you with welds, or make it into a rifle.

Heavies

Re: The Hawaii Administrative Procedure Act
« Reply #39 on: May 13, 2015, 10:50:19 PM »
Spacegoat, PM me your email. I'll give you my FFL and have it sent to me.

We can figure out what you want done to the receiver, send it back to you with welds, or make it into a rifle.

Suka. Great looking out!  You are an officer and a gentleman.  :worship: :thumbsup: