How to practice shooting on the move, using a treadmill.

Anyone want to guess what the KHSC range master would say?

24 Hour fitness get plenny treadmillz - just gotta bring gun
Modern day firearms training has gone full retard. There's no emphasis on fundamentals - more emphasis on Hollywood Operator training under the guise of "self defense".

24 Hour fitness get plenny treadmillz - just gotta bring gun
Modern day firearms training has gone full retard. There's no emphasis on fundamentals - more emphasis on Hollywood Operator training under the guise of "self defense".

...
You have to wonder if the modern training philosophies are the reason why cops seem to be more trigger happy.

Also, that guy looks winded after 40 seconds of walking.

Also why not just walk in your house and practice dry fire? Much safer than taking a spill off the treadmill with a loaded gun.

I use to jog in place for a minute or so before shooting to generate a high heart rate.  Quit doing that when I realized I was getting real  funny looks from the guys at the range.  Maybe it was my clown suit, though.

The point I'm trying to make is that I see a lot of classes that teach fundamentals as swift mag changes, shooting on the move, and some tactics from 7-8. Few go into depth about marksmanship fundamentals. My company went through quals at the pop up range last weekend. I had a former Marine teach PMI as I am too consumed with other admin stuff. I visit the range and walk the line with our BC. I gave out tips such as hard front sight focus, trigger finger placement, grip etc. A lot of the tips seem rudimentary and some are taught in basic but few understand the reason why. When I explained to a soldier how much focus he should be giving to the front sight, he tried it and he came back and said that his groups tightened up significantly. I could have easily directed our company to the easier, reduced course of fire as the rest of the companies to show qual metrics to my rater but our soldiers deserve better training than just checking the block.

In my opinion, learning to accurately place shots before shooting on the move is lost as marksmanship fundamentals are not that "dynamic". Drills such as mag changes, shooting from cover are key to survival in a gunfight but just part of the equation for surviving it. I'm not an operator by any means but if I find myself in a self-defense situation in my current environment, I won't be maneuvering towards the threat. In the civie world where most of us reside in, maneuvering towards the threat just changed a defensive situation to an offensive one - something the military is very adept in doing. Sure, its fun to cosplay as OD-D, DevGru, Jack Ryan-ish but in reality most of us don't operate in that environment. Imagine explaining how & why you killed the threat under those circumstances in court. Yes, you can argue "better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6" but going to prison for x years is not a life for me. Reading current national news our society is not keen on the righteous, law abiding citizen anymore. The scales of justice need re-balancing.

The point I'm trying to make is that I see a lot of classes that teach fundamentals as swift mag changes, shooting on the move, and some tactics from 7-8. Few go into depth about marksmanship fundamentals. My company went through quals at the pop up range last weekend. I had a former Marine teach PMI as I am too consumed with other admin stuff. I visit the range and walk the line with our BC. I gave out tips such as hard front sight focus, trigger finger placement, grip etc. A lot of the tips seem rudimentary and some are taught in basic but few understand the reason why. When I explained to a soldier how much focus he should be giving to the front sight, he tried it and he came back and said that his groups tightened up significantly. I could have easily directed our company to the easier, reduced course of fire as the rest of the companies to show qual metrics to my rater but our soldiers deserve better training than just checking the block.

In my opinion, learning to accurately place shots before shooting on the move is lost as marksmanship fundamentals are not that "dynamic". Drills such as mag changes, shooting from cover are key to survival in a gunfight but just part of the equation for surviving it. I'm not an operator by any means but if I find myself in a self-defense situation in my current environment, I won't be maneuvering towards the threat. In that video, the treadmill should be put in reverse to explain what I mean. Imagine explaining how & why you killed the threat under those circumstances in court. Yes, you can argue "better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6" but going to prison for x years is not a life for me. Reading current national news our society is not keen on the righteous, law abiding citizen anymore. The scales of justice need re-balancing.

I think you're taking the exercise in the video too literal.

From the video comments:

This was based on a match stage. Dave saw the value of the COF in that it forces the shooter to manage movement with shooting adding in the stress of staying on the treadmill.

He's not teaching defensive skills.  He's teaching moving and shooting from ...

wait for it ...

a FUNDAMENTAL perspective!  Just like Karate Kid.  Wax on - Wax off.  Sand the floor.  Paint the fence. 

Every exercise develops fundamental skills and physical abilities - stamina, coordination, breathing, and most importantly, not falling down -- aka balance!! 

I think you're taking the exercise in the video too literal.

From the video comments:
He's not teaching defensive skills.  He's teaching moving and shooting from ...

wait for it ...

a FUNDAMENTAL perspective!  Just like Karate Kid.  Wax on - Wax off.  Sand the floor.  Paint the fence. 

Every exercise develops fundamental skills and physical abilities - stamina, coordination, breathing, and most importantly, not falling down -- aka balance!!

Thanks for the clarification.
Now the next step is to get approval from Mike for a treadmill. I think we should have one at the far left in the prone spot. Now we have a better use for a "shaded parking spot"  .

Slick said, "Are you paking crazee?!. No no can dat kine treddmill."

Treadmill, Schmeadmill. The point is practicing  shooting while moving and evading and your adrenalin is pumping and your vision is tunneling and like that there.  You don't need a treadmill for that.

An opinion:
A handgun is a defensive weapon.
I can only think of a few scenarios where  anybody would be using a defensive weapon while advancing toward a threat.
1. Attain cover
2. Retrieve an injured person.
For most people including police, a better skill to practice would be sideways and rearward movement.
Consider that the post-shooting investigation will reveal that you were moving towards the target. How does that sound in court?
Sounds like assault to me.

He should turn the treadmill around. ...
But seriously, I don't think a treadmill belongs on the firing line.
Consider how many holes are blown in the roof and baffles with people JUST STANDING IN ONE PLACE!

Perhaps behind the line to promote better physical fitness... that dude needs it.

End of rant

1. Attain cover

That's what the  "moving and evading" is for.

I imagine it would be excusable to deliver suppressive fire while doing this.  Depends.

Here's an interesting video of a shootout in a bar in Toledo OH from security cameras, discounting the idea that maybe 1/2 of these folks were carrying illegally or were prohibited persons.

Apart from that, the person with the dark hair and white shirt starting at about 0:58 seemed to know what he was doing in terms of evasion.  Now maybe he was just covering the escape of his buddies who ran away (the smart move), but he exhibits a certain amount of expertise in tactical shooting.

One of the comments was, "Those are some talented fucking gunslingers right there."

Except apparently nobody was actually hurt in this engagement.

It was interesting to see the guy shooting from under the pool table.