If I were hired to kill someone and planned on using a firearm I would look into using a supressor. Yes one can manufacture a silencer but the more commercially available the more likely, I think, that it will be used. But like I said there does not appear to be a significant amount of murders or attempted murders involving silencers (that I know of) so I think it a moot point for now.

Nobody on this board does anything illegal. 

What's a "silencer" ? 

If I were hired to kill someone and planned on using a firearm I would look into using a supressor. Yes one can manufacture a silencer but the more commercially available the more likely, I think, that it will be used. But like I said there does not appear to be a significant amount of murders or attempted murders involving silencers (that I know of) so I think it a moot point for now.

It's funny to me that people actually believe a murderer is going to follow gun laws.

Too bad murder isn't illegal, then we wouldn't have to make the tools murderers use illegal.

Scenario:  say suppressors are only available to law enforcement and the military.  A wanna-be hit man wants a suppressor.  How difficult do you think it will be to fake his credentials to buy one, to steal one, or to do use a straw purchaser -- a friend or family member -- to get that suppressor?

If you don't think that's likely, then I'd like to direct your attention to the current levels of illegal drug use in the US.  Making something illegal does not prevent it's availability.  It simply makes it less convenient and more expensive to obtain.

It's funny to me that people actually believe a murderer is going to follow gun laws.

Too bad murder isn't illegal, then we wouldn't have to make the tools murderers use illegal.

Scenario:  say suppressors are only available to law enforcement and the military.  A wanna-be hit man wants a suppressor.  How difficult do you think it will be to fake his credentials to buy one, to steal one, or to do use a straw purchaser -- a friend or family member -- to get that suppressor?

If you don't think that's likely, then I'd like to direct your attention to the current levels of illegal drug use in the US.  Making something illegal does not prevent it's availability.  It simply makes it less convenient and more expensive to obtain.

I am not suggesting that having suppressors being illegal will prevent a criminal from obtaining one, only that it will make it more difficult. Take gambling for example, since it is illegal here it makes it harder to do even though there are places you can go and gamble at. But being harder to do and being illegal deters some.

I think it is a fairly empty argument to say that people who commit crimes are not going to follow the laws anyway because it is a self fulfilling statement. By definition if someone commits a crime they are a criminal so it is silly to say criminals aren't going to follow the law.

I don't think that even liberals in california believe that a murderer is going to follow the gun laws. Rather I think their aim in enacting strict gun laws is to make it more difficult for someone to go out and murder another by making the tools more difficult to obtain. Now you can disagree on whether that is an effective method of course.

I am not suggesting that having suppressors being illegal will prevent a criminal from obtaining one, only that it will make it more difficult. Take gambling for example, since it is illegal here it makes it harder to do even though there are places you can go and gamble at. But being harder to do and being illegal deters some.

I think it is a fairly empty argument to say that people who commit crimes are not going to follow the laws anyway because it is a self fulfilling statement. By definition if someone commits a crime they are a criminal so it is silly to say criminals aren't going to follow the law.

I don't think that even liberals in california believe that a murderer is going to follow the gun laws. Rather I think their aim in enacting strict gun laws is to make it more difficult for someone to go out and murder another by making the tools more difficult to obtain. Now you can disagree on whether that is an effective method of course.

You haven't answered the question yet.

What problems do suppressors cause?

You haven't answered the question yet.

What problems do suppressors cause?

Do you mean what problems can they cause or are you talking about actual documented incidents of them being used? I don't personally know of any studies suggesting that suppressors are or are not a problem so i don't want to just guess whether they are used in a significant percentage of crimes. Their potential should be obvious because of what suppressors are able to do. Able to mask or conceal the sound of the gun being fired. Lets not kid ourselves by pretending that the only use for suppressors is saving our hearing.

Do you mean what problems can they cause or are you talking about actual documented incidents of them being used? I don't personally know of any studies suggesting that suppressors are or are not a problem so i don't want to just guess whether they are used in a significant percentage of crimes. Their potential should be obvious because of what suppressors are able to do. Able to mask or conceal the sound of the gun being fired. Lets not kid ourselves by pretending that the only use for suppressors is saving our hearing.

And in the absence of a suppressor, people never use guns in crimes for fear of alerting people.

And there are no other quieter alternatives than a suppressed gun for murdering someone, like bats, knives, suffocation, strangulation, a blunt object, scissors, poisons, drowning,  ....

As for "Lets not kid ourselves by pretending that the only use for suppressors is saving our hearing", the same can be said of cars, knives, bats, bathtubs, scissors, blunt objects like hammers, plastic bags, ....

I still haven't seen you say what problems suppressors cause.  If they make a gun less loud, is that a problem?

Sounds like you're using the same argument the anti's use to ban all guns.  The mere existence of a suppressor is bad because someone might use it to hurt someone.  that explains why there are no gun murders in the US now.  People are afraid the sound will give them away.

And, as I mentioned, there are alternatives to commercially available suppressors that don't require a really long wait for an NFA tax stamp to legally own one.  Empty a 2-liter soda bottle and tape it to the barrel.  From what I've seen, it's not a bad alternative.

As far as I know, suppressors only "silence" 22s.

Everything else is stil pretty loud just not as loud.
We pop 45 primers occassionally (empty case) and that shit is loud.

Friggin movies screwed us. (And uber-liberal politicians)
Fwup fwup fwup. Bullshit.

Suka would know more about this first hand.

As far as I know, suppressors only "silence" 22s.

Everything else is stil pretty loud just not as loud.
We pop 45 primers occassionally (empty case) and that shit is loud.

Friggin movies screwed us. (And uber-liberal politicians)
Fwup fwup fwup. Bullshit.

Suka would know more about this first hand.

With the right subsonic ammo and a well-made suppressor, you can pretty much reduce the noise from the exploding gases to almost nothing.  The remaining noise is from the slide or bolt cycling and ejecting the fired brass.

With the right subsonic ammo and a well-made suppressor, you can pretty much reduce the noise from the exploding gases to almost nothing.  The remaining noise is from the slide or bolt cycling and ejecting the fired brass.

Are there any videos that show this ?

All the stuff I've seen, center fire ammo still hits some serious decibels.

Like I said, popping primers ( no bullet so definitely sub sonic ) is still loud.

I agree noise is significantly reduced, but reducing the noise to almost nothing except the slide and bolt cycling might be a stretch.
Sounds like the movies.

Suka ? ( he has videos and experience)

Are there any videos that show this ?

All the stuff I've seen, center fire ammo still hits some serious decibels.

Like I said, popping primers ( no bullet so definitely sub sonic ) is still loud.

I agree noise is significantly reduced, but reducing the noise to almost nothing except the slide and bolt cycling might be a stretch.
Sounds like the movies.

Suka ? ( he has videos and experience)

CCI makes a Quiet-22 ammo the guy in the video demonstrates.  I think a better suppressor can be found over the one he's using, but the lack of sound is impressive.

Of course, you have to hand-cycle the next round due to the round's low pressure, but for those of us in the "murder for hire" racket, you will want to avoid leaving brass at the scene anyway!   

Yeah, Suka has impressive videos of suppressed .22s also.

But like I said, they're .22s.

Lawmakers gotta realize that center fire suppressors just reduce the sound enough to preserve hearing, especially when hunting so minimal ear pro.

WOW, nice twist of an off the rails thread.  Map of suppressor legal states to best method of taking someone out to the quietest suppressor shot.

And in the absence of a suppressor, people never use guns in crimes for fear of alerting people.

And there are no other quieter alternatives than a suppressed gun for murdering someone, like bats, knives, suffocation, strangulation, a blunt object, scissors, poisons, drowning,  ....

As for "Lets not kid ourselves by pretending that the only use for suppressors is saving our hearing", the same can be said of cars, knives, bats, bathtubs, scissors, blunt objects like hammers, plastic bags, ....

I still haven't seen you say what problems suppressors cause.  If they make a gun less loud, is that a problem?

Sounds like you're using the same argument the anti's use to ban all guns.  The mere existence of a suppressor is bad because someone might use it to hurt someone.  that explains why there are no gun murders in the US now.  People are afraid the sound will give them away.

And, as I mentioned, there are alternatives to commercially available suppressors that don't require a really long wait for an NFA tax stamp to legally own one.  Empty a 2-liter soda bottle and tape it to the barrel.  From what I've seen, it's not a bad alternative.

Of course there are alternatives, that is not the point. And no, I am not making their arguments, I am analyzing them. A suppressor can make it easier to kill someone with a gun and get away with it, bottom line. Will not having a suppressor stop murder? Of course not, but it might make the difference between catching the shooter. It might be possible that someone who would not normally shoot a person might feel more safe and willing to do so with a suppressor but I doubt such a thing has been measured at this point so who knows.

Eatingeye, you and MauiD should get a room. 

Lawmakers gotta realize that center fire suppressors just reduce the sound enough to preserve hearing, especially when hunting so minimal ear pro.

 

Eatingeye, you and MauiD should get a room. 

 

Hey!  I've successfully ignored him for over a month.  But when he makes comments that are 100% made up garbage from movies or, even worse, his imagination, then he needs to be called out for that!

You do notice he keeps typing his unsupported BS, but refuses to answer the question I asked several times, right?

What problems do suppressors cause?

Still waiting for an answer ....

"A suppressor can make it easier to kill someone with a gun and get away with it, bottom line"

Is that it?  That's your answer??

Haven't you guys realized that eyefisheater is just a plant in our forum, here to cause dissension and arguments amongst the 2a community.

I work real hard to not respond to his garbage.

I've been accused of being a little too honest when it comes to people like that.

Haven't you guys realized that eyefisheater is just a plant in our forum, here to cause dissension and arguments amongst the 2a community.

Noticed that a long time ago, and still swear he admitted to being a cop at one time.

Hey!  I've successfully ignored him for over a month.  But when he makes comments that are 100% made up garbage from movies or, even worse, his imagination, then he needs to be called out for that!

You do notice he keeps typing his unsupported BS, but refuses to answer the question I asked several times, right?

What problems do suppressors cause?

Still waiting for an answer ....

"A suppressor can make it easier to kill someone with a gun and get away with it, bottom line"

Is that it?  That's your answer??

I answered your question, you just ignored it or didn't like it.

Can you not see the difference between supporting the left and just analyzing their arguments? Pro 2A people will make these counter arguments that end up missing the basis of some of the arguments the left makes. We would be better off, I think, analyzing their arguments, finding the kernel of truth and defeating that argument instead of ignoring it. If you defeat that kernel of truth then you destroy their argument but instead I see arguments that always assume the wrong motives and just dismiss their reasoning.

We covered this before in the discussion about suicide and firearms. The argument was dismissed under the asinine argument that people who want to die will kill themselves either way but I pointed out the kernel of truth in that argument. With that knowledge we can form a better argument with someone who wishes to argue against firearms. They want to pass laws to restrict our firearms, I would think you would be more interested in developing sound arguments to defeat them. The better the case we can make the greater the chance we can get suppressors legalized here. Is that not your interest?

Haven't you guys realized that eyefisheater is just a plant in our forum, here to cause dissension and arguments amongst the 2a community.

I work real hard to not respond to his garbage.

I've been accused of being a little too honest when it comes to people like that.

Well sir, sorry to disappoint but you are wrong. I am here for my own interest in firearms and the keeping 2nd amendment. I do enjoy a healthy debate from time to time though. If I were here to cause dissension there are more better ways I could go about it.

Though it constantly amazes me that when someone tries to be objective they are thought to be really for the other side.

This post might not convince you of anything different, and if so then so be it but I won't stand by while people make false accusations against me.

With the right subsonic ammo and a well-made suppressor, you can pretty much reduce the noise from the exploding gases to almost nothing.  The remaining noise is from the slide or bolt cycling and ejecting the fired brass.

found this while cruising the web

http://gearscout.militarytimes.com/2015/03/03/art-science-and-fact-combine-to-explain-suppressors/