some interesting info re: tulsi gabbard (Read 21473 times)

xer 21

Re: some interesting info re: tulsi gabbard
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2015, 07:57:37 PM »


no one wants to accept that so they invent demons.

Q

Re: some interesting info re: tulsi gabbard
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2015, 11:56:19 PM »
Funny, some democrats consider her to lean republican. That aside, why do you assume that not having made up her mind equates her to being a socialist? Heaven forbid she actually consider the pros and cons of both sides of the issue before voicing an opinion.

SOCIALIST

Q

Re: some interesting info re: tulsi gabbard
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2015, 12:02:27 AM »
"As a Soldier and Military Police Officer, I have received extensive training and have significant experience in handling a variety of firearms."

As a former soldier and former Military Police officer, I say Tulsi is full of shit.

Her receiving extensive training and significant experience through her less than impressive military career is like a cook attached to 1st group claiming he is Special Forces just because he cooks food for the unit.

hvybarrels

Re: some interesting info re: tulsi gabbard
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2015, 12:17:48 AM »
Politicians are at best incompetent and greedy or at worst power hungry and destructive. There's no saviour coming, or at least they won't be running for office because that's the worst place to be if your true desire is to make the world a better place.  I'd be a socialist if I thought it would do any good, but now it seems like we are just heading back to caveman days with the 400 richest delusional inbred psychopaths driving Western Civilization off a cliff.
I’m becoming clinically undepressed and thinking about beginning it all.

eyeeatingfish

Re: some interesting info re: tulsi gabbard
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2015, 06:09:58 PM »
Socialists believe in a "Rainbows, Unicorns and everyone living and working together for the common good." 

To believe Iran is in any way going to cooperate and live up to the expectations of the deal is naive.  They have stated their ideologies and obsessions for decades.  The US and Israel are the Big Satan and Little Satan.  Israel must be pushed into the sea, and all Jews everywhere must convert to Islam or die.

The reality of the Middle East is not one of mutual respect and cooperation, particularly when they are harboring a vile hatred of our country almost since birth.  Iran sees this deal as a victory -- a way to finally remove the sanctions without really giving up their quest to obtain nuclear weapons.

If you truly believe Iran will just stop what they have been developing and convert it all into peaceful nuclear energy plants, then you may also have Socialist tendencies!

The thing is she didn't say she supported the Iran deal so why attack her as if she did? She said she was undecided. This is a responsible reply by anyone who has not yet been able to consider all the sides on it. It is certainly a complicated issue and I would rather a thought out response than a party lines response.

I personally have not made up my mind I lean more against it than before it right now but there is one news piece I read recently which made some good points for it as well. Not necessarily that Iran will follow the deal but that it better deals with the reality that Iran will probably make a nuke either way. If I can find the article again I can post it if you are interested in reading it.

She may be no friend of the 2nd amendment but she has crossed the aisle before on other issues.

eyeeatingfish

Re: some interesting info re: tulsi gabbard
« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2015, 06:50:05 PM »
I don't know who's been whispering sweet nothings in your ear, but  IF  there's a difference between Socialism of the 20th Century and the 21st Century, maybe you'd be so kind as to enlighten us all?  That is, unless you're just BS-ing with a bunch a Democrat Party hogwash.

I think what he is trying to say is that perhaps there is a different between the tenants of socialism and what some people did under a socialist government. Sure we can find horrible things done under the banner of socialism but that doesn't mean socialism itself supports those things. We have our own soiled history, does that mean all democratic republics are bad or that the idea of democracy is bad? Of course not.

mauidog

Re: some interesting info re: tulsi gabbard
« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2015, 11:11:45 PM »
I think what he is trying to say is that perhaps there is a different between the tenants of socialism and what some people did under a socialist government. Sure we can find horrible things done under the banner of socialism but that doesn't mean socialism itself supports those things. We have our own soiled history, does that mean all democratic republics are bad or that the idea of democracy is bad? Of course not.

Capitalism is not a form of government.  It is a type of economic system.

Socialism is a form of government.  It requires that the public share equally what is produced, and that the government owns and controls the businesses to enforce that equality.  That much power in the hands of the government will necessarily lead to oppression and massive corruption. 

If you choose to believe otherwise, give an example where a socialized nation has flourished.  Not one with just socialized medicine or other individual programs, but where socialism is their way of life.
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

aieahound

Re: some interesting info re: tulsi gabbard
« Reply #27 on: August 26, 2015, 09:11:35 AM »
If you choose to believe otherwise, give an example where a socialized nation has flourished.  Not one with just socialized medicine or other individual programs, but where socialism is their way of life.

Why you gotta be so extremist ?
We're calling Bernie Sanders a Socialist and he doesn't prescribe to the whole salami you're talking about.

There are plenty of flourishing Nations labeled Socialist.
Sweden, Denmark, Finland, the Netherlands, Norway.......

And a lot of them have great 2a rights. Maybe they're privileges in those countries but they got a lot of gun owners.

And I'm not saying I support Socialism. Just that there's more than one opinion.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2015, 09:18:06 AM by aieahound »

mauidog

Re: some interesting info re: tulsi gabbard
« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2015, 12:53:04 PM »
Why you gotta be so extremist ?
We're calling Bernie Sanders a Socialist and he doesn't prescribe to the whole salami you're talking about.

There are plenty of flourishing Nations labeled Socialist.
Sweden, Denmark, Finland, the Netherlands, Norway.......

And a lot of them have great 2a rights. Maybe they're privileges in those countries but they got a lot of gun owners.

And I'm not saying I support Socialism. Just that there's more than one opinion.

Just because you have a right to your own opinion doesn't mean that opinion is right!!!!!    >:D
« Last Edit: August 26, 2015, 01:34:46 PM by mauidog »
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

Q

Re: some interesting info re: tulsi gabbard
« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2015, 01:17:26 PM »
Why you gotta be so extremist ?
We're calling Bernie Sanders a Socialist and he doesn't prescribe to the whole salami you're talking about.

There are plenty of flourishing Nations labeled Socialist.
Sweden, Denmark, Finland, the Netherlands, Norway.......

And a lot of them have great 2a rights. Maybe they're privileges in those countries but they got a lot of gun owners.

And I'm not saying I support Socialism. Just that there's more than one opinion.

You might want to fact check on 'great 2a rights', hound; all of them listed are restricted with regards to 2a, and based in hunting and sport rather than what 2a really stands for.

Also, might want to watch this piece on what Bernie Sanders really stands for:



mauidog

Re: some interesting info re: tulsi gabbard
« Reply #30 on: August 26, 2015, 01:58:12 PM »
Why you gotta be so extremist ?

There are plenty of flourishing Nations labeled Socialist.
Sweden, Denmark, Finland, the Netherlands, Norway.......

Why you gotta be so wrong all the time?

Sweden:  Constitutional Monarchy

Denmark: Unitary parliamentary constitutional monarchy

Finland: Unitary parliamentary constitutional republic
"Like other Nordic countries, Finland has decentralised its economy since the late 1980s. Financial and product market regulation were loosened. Some state enterprises have been privatized and there have been some modest tax cuts. Finland joined the European Union in 1995, and the Eurozone in 1999."

Netherlands:  Unitary parliamentary constitutional republic 

Norway:  Unitary parliamentary constitutional republic

I don't know what you mean by countries "labeled Socialist".  Is this what they teach in school now?  Because Socialism is a form of government.  These counties clearly are not Socialist.  They may have some centralized aspects just like the US (welfare), but if they allow private ownership of the companies which contribute to the GDP, then they are not Socialist.
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

aieahound

Re: some interesting info re: tulsi gabbard
« Reply #31 on: August 26, 2015, 02:33:42 PM »
Good point MauiD.

Added: based on your own arguments...

You Shoulda just supported eatingfisheye's original statement and just said they shouldn't call Tulsi a Socialist because she's not close by the classic definition.

Maybe I shoulda just said these countries have socialist tendencies. ( which I kinda did )

You might want to fact check on 'great 2a rights', hound; all of them listed are restricted with regards to 2a, and based in hunting and sport rather than what 2a really stands for.

Most those countries made guns and ammo top ten for countries to own a gun in but I definitely could be
wrong.

I don't support Bernie Sanders but MauiD proved he's not a socialist.

Rand Paul for President.
((Anyone but Hillary)
« Last Edit: August 26, 2015, 06:16:06 PM by aieahound »

Drakiir84

Re: some interesting info re: tulsi gabbard
« Reply #32 on: August 26, 2015, 02:39:54 PM »
Good point MauiD.

You Shoulda just supported eatingfisheye's original statement and just said they shouldn't call Tulsi a Socialist because she's not close by the classic definition.

Maybe I shoulda just said these countries have socialist tendencies. ( which I kinda did )

Most those countries made guns and ammo top ten for countries to own a gun in but I definitely could be
wrong.

I don't support Bernie Sanders but MauiD proved he's not a socialist.

Rand Paul for President.
((Anyone but Hillary)

Bernie Sanders is a self-described democratic socialist and his policy proposals support that statement.

In an unrelated note I do enjoy watching you two canines shit all over each other.  :popcorn:
"The rifle is a weapon. Let there be no mistake about that. It is a tool of power, and thus dependent completely upon the moral stature of its user. It is equally useful in securing meat for the table, destroying group enemies on the battlefield, and resisting tyranny. In fact, it is the only means of resisting tyranny, since a citizenry armed with rifles simply cannot be tyrannized."
-Jeff Cooper

mauidog

Re: some interesting info re: tulsi gabbard
« Reply #33 on: August 26, 2015, 02:50:11 PM »
Good point MauiD.

You Shoulda just supported eatingfisheye's original statement and just said they shouldn't call Tulsi a Socialist because she's not close by the classic definition.

Maybe I shoulda just said these countries have socialist tendencies. ( which I kinda did )

Most those countries made guns and ammo top ten for countries to own a gun in but I definitely could be
wrong.

I don't support Bernie Sanders but MauiD proved he's not a socialist.

Rand Paul for President.
((Anyone but Hillary)

Maybe I should PM you all my responses from now own so you can tell me what I should say?  You seem to have a tendency to latch onto my posts more than others comments.  If you're that concerned with what I have to say, we should collaborate so I don't say anything you disagree with!!
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

aieahound

Re: some interesting info re: tulsi gabbard
« Reply #34 on: August 26, 2015, 03:02:05 PM »
Bernie Sanders is a self-described democratic socialist and his policy proposals support that statement.

No such thing as a democratic socialist.
Just ask MauiD !
(As supported by his prior posts)


Maybe I should PM you all my responses from now own so you can tell me what I should say?  You seem to have a tendency to latch onto my posts more than others comments.  If you're that concerned with what I have to say, we should collaborate so I don't say anything you disagree with!!

What ?
You don't like a good debate.

Just because you have a right to your own opinion doesn't mean that opinion is right!!!!!    >:D

Right back at ya chief !
Words to live by.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2015, 06:18:36 PM by aieahound »

eyeeatingfish

Re: some interesting info re: tulsi gabbard
« Reply #35 on: August 26, 2015, 06:01:55 PM »
Capitalism is not a form of government.  It is a type of economic system.

Socialism is a form of government.  It requires that the public share equally what is produced, and that the government owns and controls the businesses to enforce that equality.  That much power in the hands of the government will necessarily lead to oppression and massive corruption. 

If you choose to believe otherwise, give an example where a socialized nation has flourished.  Not one with just socialized medicine or other individual programs, but where socialism is their way of life.

I didn't use the word capitalism but thanks for clarification.

What you defined as socialism seems more like the definition of communism than socialism.

There seems to rarely exist any pure type of government. There is no pure democracy, no pure socialism, no pure monarchy if you really want to split hairs. We have socialism type programs in this country but we also have democratic republic type systems as well. If you are going to nit pick and disqualify hound's examples then we could do the same about the USA being a certain type of system. Being socialist isn't the worst thing in the world, there are far worse things one can bring to the party. I am not a socialist by any definition even though I support some socialist programs (like free public K-12 education)

Either way, Tulsi Gabbard's undecided position on the Iran deal is in no way grounds for claiming she is a socialist.

mauidog

Re: some interesting info re: tulsi gabbard
« Reply #36 on: August 26, 2015, 06:20:01 PM »
No such thing as a democratic socialist.
Just ask MauiD !
(As supported by his prior posts)

Most others are respectful or at least humorous.
Just stop being rude and attacking other members for their views (and I'm not talking about me) and I'll be as happy as a clam and quiet as a mouse.

Of course you've made it clear repeatedly that you don't care if you're not courteous and that it's everyone else's problem if they can't handle your uncensored brain/comments and you've even tried to take your ball and go home a couple times.

Plus I prefer to disagree in public.
It's more fun.  :D

Right back at ya chief !
Words to live by.

Drop the mic.
Over and out.

How many times are you going to jack this thread?  You seem to think you have some moral high ground, trying to police the forum of people you don't like. 

You have nothing to actually add to the real topic other than your "opinion" and insults. You're just commenting because you had an emotional reaction to something I posted.   :'(       :-[

Thread-jacking is also rude and disrespectful -- to the entire forum, yet you don't seem to care about that.

You might be amusing yourself IN PUBLIC by taking over threads with your little attacks, but it's still poor behavior, especially for a hypocrite trying to preach how others ought to behave.

Pathetic!!

 :stopjack:
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

aieahound

Re: some interesting info re: tulsi gabbard
« Reply #37 on: August 26, 2015, 06:34:07 PM »
Note: edited my last post before the post above was posted.

Do you ever read what you write or listen to yourself ?
It takes 2 to tango.
You have as many off topic posts as I do.
I tried to get the thread back on topic on page 1.
was kind of a good debate though.

Pathetic !!? ( using your 2 exclamation points )
Pathetic is being on your third forum name.
Moosed. DarmokandJalad. Mauidog.
What's the next one gonna be ?

 :stopjack:

I was amazed when we visited Washington D.C. We were there on the 4th of July and the last float in the parade along the Mall wasn't a color guard or band it was the Hare Krishnas.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2015, 06:57:09 PM by aieahound »

mauidog

Re: some interesting info re: tulsi gabbard
« Reply #38 on: August 26, 2015, 06:37:23 PM »
I didn't use the word capitalism but thanks for clarification.

What you defined as socialism seems more like the definition of communism than socialism.

There seems to rarely exist any pure type of government. There is no pure democracy, no pure socialism, no pure monarchy if you really want to split hairs. We have socialism type programs in this country but we also have democratic republic type systems as well. If you are going to nit pick and disqualify hound's examples then we could do the same about the USA being a certain type of system. Being socialist isn't the worst thing in the world, there are far worse things one can bring to the party. I am not a socialist by any definition even though I support some socialist programs (like free public K-12 education)

Either way, Tulsi Gabbard's undecided position on the Iran deal is in no way grounds for claiming she is a socialist.

I've studied Socialism and Communism in school as well as the military.  The Cold War was still going on then.  Not all of us were born after Reagan left office.  :)

Communism and Socialism are the same thing.  The only real difference is Communism is the "end game" of Socialists.  Think of the game Othello.  The goal is to turn all the pieces to whatever color is yours.  Ideally, you want them all to be Black or White, whichever color you need to win.

Each country that becomes Socialist is another playing piece changed to your color.  Once all the pieces are changed, you have Communism.

Communism can not be attained as long as there is opposition to it/Socialism.  think about it.  If 80% of the world is converted to Socialism, but 20% are still capitalists, those 20% are not donating to the "good of the state".  They are accumulating wealth and capital goods to make profits, not to share with everyone.  The other 80% want that wealth so everyone gets a little more of the wealth instead of a few having it.

Now, think about how easy it would be to blame all your country's woes on the capitalists of the world.  Their greedy capitalist ways are preventing your Socialist nation from attaining true Communism, that utopian state where everyone shares equally, and nobody goes without.  Where it's "from each according to his abilities, and to each according to his needs."  Perfect scapegoat, huh?

it sounds so good until you realize Communism can never be attained unless the US totally abandons our foundation of freedom and individual liberty, those things which make our country so great.
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

Sodie

Re: some interesting info re: tulsi gabbard
« Reply #39 on: August 26, 2015, 07:18:55 PM »


And a lot of them have great 2a rights. Maybe they're privileges in those countries but they got a lot of gun owners.

I don't want to dive into the deep end of this discussion, but just have to say...

Privileges =/= rights.