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need help (Read 12586 times)

mic808

need help
« on: August 30, 2015, 09:57:45 PM »
hello fellow 2A,
 i need some info on how to purchase a rifle as a gift to someone.
my brother in-law have a long gun permit, so his wife is planning to purchase a rifle as a surprise gift to him for his birthday but the problem is she doesnt have a long gun permit. can i buy the rifle and gave it to him as present and he will register it under his name? how long do we need to register a rifle after purchase it from a gun shop? thanks. sorry for the last minute question.
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macsak

Re: need help
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2015, 10:10:49 PM »
Quote from: mic808 on August 30, 2015, 09:57:45 PM
hello fellow 2A,
 i need some info on how to purchase a rifle as a gift to someone.
my brother in-law have a long gun permit, so his wife is planning to purchase a rifle as a surprise gift to him for his birthday but the problem is she doesnt have a long gun permit. can i buy the rifle and gave it to him as present and he will register it under his name? how long do we need to register a rifle after purchase it from a gun shop? thanks. sorry for the last minute question.

you can loan a long gun to someone for two weeks as long as they are not a prohibited individual

you have 5 days to register a long gun after you pick it up from the gun store

the part i am not sure of is if you have to complete the registration before you transfer, but i would think that you do
but then you can immediately transfer it to your BIL

since no one on this forum does anything illegal. i would be very careful to not break any state laws
i am sure other people will chime in soon
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mic808

Re: need help
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2015, 10:15:35 PM »
thanks mac. yeah he have a current long gun permit. i also have a long gun permit. she decided to give me the money and im goin to purchase the rifle and give it to him. the only thing i dont know is gun shop can name the invoice to him instead of my name. maybe i can steal his long gun permit and bring it to the shop. what you think?
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macsak

Re: need help
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2015, 10:20:48 PM »
Quote from: mic808 on August 30, 2015, 10:15:35 PM
thanks mac. yeah he have a current long gun permit. i also have a long gun permit. she decided to give me the money and im goin to purchase the rifle and give it to him. the only thing i dont know is gun shop can name the invoice to him instead of my name. maybe i can steal his long gun permit and bring it to the shop. what you think?

NO
i would not even walk into a gun store and joke about doing something like that
the gun store will not likely do it, and might even call the authorities on you

please follow all state and local laws
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mauiboi9

Re: need help
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2015, 10:22:35 PM »
technically i think the most legit way to do it is pay for the firearm at the shop. Have them hold the firearm and then have him pick it up from the store. Cause if u wanna get technical when filling out the 4473 when you click the box stating yes this firearm is for me and then transferring to someone shortly after can be looked at as a straw purchase and you lied on a federal document. Seems like would work out because your going to go with him to hpd to do the transfer anyways. So just go to the gun shop then hpd. Just my 2 cents.
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mic808

Re: need help
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2015, 10:22:54 PM »
worse case is to buy the rifle and register it that day and transfer to him. sorry i didnt mean anything like that. i was just brainstorming and asking for suggestion to make sure i dont break any laws. its a last minute request. now she want to get the rifle by tomorrow or tuesday.
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mic808

Re: need help
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2015, 10:26:24 PM »
thanks mauiboi, i think that's a good idea.
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mauiboi9

Re: need help
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2015, 10:30:36 PM »
Quote from: mic808 on August 30, 2015, 10:26:24 PM
thanks mauiboi, i think that's a good idea.

no problem
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dogman

Re: need help
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2015, 10:33:07 PM »
Have the gun shop make a Gift Certificate for the rifle.
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mic808

Re: need help
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2015, 10:35:44 PM »
thanks for all the input guys. i havent purchase or transfer ownership of rifle before. and sorry for the trouble
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TastesLikeMetal

Re: need help
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2015, 10:43:58 PM »
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mauidog

Re: need help
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2015, 10:49:33 PM »
Quote
The ATF recommends that if you want to give someone a new firearm, rather than going to a gun store, buying it on your own and giving it to,
say your father, consider instead purchasing a gift certificate from that retailer and giving it to Dad as his present. That way he’ll get the
exact gun he wants, and there’s no question about who is “the actual buyer of the firearm,” which is a question any purchaser must certify
on the Federal Form 4473 at the time of purchase.

http://www.nssfblog.com/giving-a-firearm-as-a-gift-some-reminders-from-nssf/

I'm sure gun shops sell to customers all the time intending to give the gun as a gift.  I'd recommend you ask the shop you're buying from what they suggest you do to avoid extra HPD trips, ATF Form 4473 snafus, and any warranty coverage issues that only apply to the original buyer.
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An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper

mic808

Re: need help
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2015, 11:00:39 PM »
thanks for the info MD.
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hdu

Re: need help
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2015, 11:20:07 PM »
First off picking up a gun for someone else is consider a straw purchases and is illegal.  Any store that tell you other wise is setting you up. On the 4473 forum that is the first question I believe.

Here what you should do. Go in to any store and pick out a nice gun. Pay for it and have them invoice it to the person you plan on giving the rilfe to. Bring said person to the store and surprise them with it.

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mic808

Re: need help
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2015, 11:50:12 PM »
thanks. i think that is what im goin to do since i kinda hate to drive all the way to HPD for somebody else rifle. if its for me,
no problem
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justin1098

Re: need help
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2015, 08:09:51 AM »
Quote from: hdu on August 30, 2015, 11:20:07 PM
First off picking up a gun for someone else is consider a straw purchases and is illegal.  Any store that tell you other wise is setting you up. On the 4473 forum that is the first question I believe.

Here what you should do. Go in to any store and pick out a nice gun. Pay for it and have them invoice it to the person you plan on giving the rilfe to. Bring said person to the store and surprise them with it.

Buying a firearm to give to someone is a gift is not a straw purchase, as long as you believe that they aren't prohibited to own one.

You can, in all good conscience, check yes on question 11a on the 4473 because you are, in fact, the buyer.

If you were buying by proxy for someone else who is unwilling or unable, that is a straw purchase.

As for how to work it out here in HI, you should ask a dealer. They have done it before.
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Bota-CS1

Re: need help
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2015, 08:29:51 AM »
Quote from: justin1098 on August 31, 2015, 08:09:51 AM
Buying a firearm to give to someone is a gift is not a straw purchase, as long as you believe that they aren't prohibited to own one.

You can, in all good conscience, check yes on question 11a on the 4473 because you are, in fact, the buyer.

If you were buying by proxy for someone else who is unwilling or unable, that is a straw purchase.

As for how to work it out here in HI, you should ask a dealer. They have done it before.

That's not entirely correct.  The recent SCOTUS ruling from last year makes it clear that the status of the person receiving the firearm is immaterial.  In the case cited below both individuals were allowed to own the firearm in question. The federal form and identification procedure make clear that only the actual buyers are eligible to make the purchase. It features in boldface these words: "Warning: you are not the actual buyer if you are acquiring the firearm on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual buyer, the dealer cannot transfer the firearm to you."  Check out Abramski vs. Supreme Court.  This case was brought up to the Supreme Court last year and makes it crystal clearer as to what actually constitutes a straw purchase.

Just to summarize - In this case, Bruce Abramski Jr. offered to buy a Glock 19 handgun in Virginia for his uncle in Pennsylvania because Abramski thought he could get a law enforcement discount on the gun. Abramski had previously been a policeman....

At the gun dealership, Abramski filled out the federal forms, stating that he was the actual buyer of the gun. He even signed a separate form certifying his understanding that giving a false answer to that question is itself a federal crime.

After he was cleared by the federal database, Abramski gave the gun to his uncle, deposited the uncle's $400 check, and gave him a receipt.

Police later found the receipt after searching Abramski's home in connection with another crime. He was sentenced to five years of probation for lying on the federal form by representing himself as the actual buyer.

Abramski's uncle would have been able to purchase the Glock on his own.

I think the store invoice, or gift certificate is a good idea to avoid any legal problems.  If you want to make doubly sure, you can check with the store.   :thumbsup: 



P.S. would you like to adopt me into your family?  I like getting firearms as gifts.   :rofl:

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Legislation should never be about depriving law abiding citizens of something, but rather taking those things away from criminals.

hdu

Re: need help
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2015, 08:38:55 AM »
Just call hpd if you're not sure or the atf local office.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2015, 08:53:18 AM by hdu »
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mic808

Re: need help
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2015, 09:06:45 AM »
thanks all. i called OGC just now and guy who answered the phone told me i can pay for it and invoice it under my brother-in-laws name and he will just come to the store to pick it up and register.
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mauidog

Re: need help
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2015, 11:48:19 AM »
Quote from: mic808 on August 31, 2015, 09:06:45 AM
thanks all. i called OGC just now and guy who answered the phone told me i can pay for it and invoice it under my brother-in-laws name and he will just come to the store to pick it up and register.

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An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper
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