Anything worthwhile checking out in Phoenix? (Read 13231 times)

Kingkeoni

Re: Anything worthwhile checking out in Phoenix?
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2015, 08:32:06 PM »
Just want to make sure I understand what you're saying...  Hawaii law applies to an FFL holder that lives in a different state?

FFL holders are bound by the laws in the state of residence of the buyer.

For example, if a california resident attempts to buy a firearm in Arizona, the Arizona FFL will adhere to the California gun laws.

If a Hawaii resident attempts to buy a firearm in Arizona, the Arizona FFL will adhere to the Hawaii gun laws.

So to answer your question, yes.
Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

Colt808

Re: Anything worthwhile checking out in Phoenix?
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2015, 05:22:06 AM »
NO

You can not buy firearms in Arizona (hand guns or long guns) without them sending them to a Hawaii FFL.

Partially correct...with regards to handguns. With shipping and transfer fees, I've yet to find a deal making the hassle worthwhile.

For a rifle or shotgun, you may purchase in any State as long as it is in person from a licensed dealer. Just present your ID(s) and long gun permit to acquire. I've done this many times in several States and the only issues I've ever had was with a national chain store with a policy of only dealing with contiguous states, a few LGS that erred on the side of caution because they weren't 100% positive on what is legal here and a place in Ohio that was confused about Hawaii being a State.
Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it. ~Thomas Paine


And I still see stupid people.

Mr. Farknocker

Re: Anything worthwhile checking out in Phoenix?
« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2015, 09:38:04 AM »
Well, I'm back! I had a blast in Prescott! Literally!

I visited Cabela's and Bass Pro Shops in Phoenix. The stores are mind-boggling. two floors with each floor having the same area as Sports Authority on Ward. Lots of neat stuff. I found the prices to be a little higher than what I'm used to seeing locally but the fact that they had products in stock was amazing.

I visited J&G Sales and a few other gun stores like Mazy's, High Country Guns, Tombstone Tactical and Prescott Valley Guns.  All of the vendors were nice and easily approachable.  I was surprised at how small the operation over at J&G Sales is. The salesman at J&G was the most friendliest and approachable guy in the gun business I've ever met. He was quite the conversationalist and was keen on observing the firearms I stopped to look at. He didn't wait to be asked and reached in the glass case and pulled out firearms and placed them in my hand. I must have held 5 or 6 pieces before I left that place. J&G also had the C&R pieces listed on their website in their display cases. I was so tempted to pick up the Polish P64 or Romania Tokarev 7.62x25 but ultimately decided not to because it would require spending money to buy reloading equipment for a new caliber  versus buying accessories or better equipment than what I have. I saved my money and visited Harbor Freight Tools and picked up a handful of stuff I wanted instead.

It was quite the experience to see guys walking around with holstered firearms in AZ. You don't need a permit to acquire and you don't need to register your firearms. You can open carry, conceal carry, and carry loaded on your person or in your vehicle.

A buddy of mine threw his gun gear in the back of his truck and kept his AR in the cab next to the floor shifter and drove me out of the city limits to one of several shooting sites where I sampled his handguns and long guns until we lost the sunlight and were forced to quit. No one was there and we had the place all to ourselves. Shooting out in the open like that made me realize why there were so many gun accessories, sites, grips, holsters, etc. In Honolulu, you shoot standing or at a bench and have more need for an ass pad for the seat than a tactical sling or other accessories so many of the accessories available on the market made little sense to me until now.

On the question of buying guns out of state, I spent a lot of time scouring the internet in hurry to determine whether I could legally buy firearms in Arizona and came across a few good articles on the subject. With regard to ATF rules, I am of the understanding that if you are permitted to possess firearms (i.e., no felony convictions, etc.), you can buy long guns and shotguns and walk out of the store with them. Airlines don't care whether you purchased them legally just so long as you ship them in accordance with ATF and airline rules so bringing long guns, shotguns, and handguns, irrespective of whether you acquired them legally, will not, in and of itself, get you in trouble.  Having said that, all handguns must be purchased through an FFL and, other than C&R handguns, must be shipped to an FFL in the non-resident's state.  An non-licensed resident (meaning someone who is not an FFL) may not transfer a hand gun to a resident of another state.

The applicable ATF rules are as follows and can be found here:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b1

B. UNLICENSED PERSONS

(B1) To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the Gun Control Act ("GCA")?

A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

(B2) From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA? [Back]

A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

(B3) May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s own State? [Back]

A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser's State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3)]

Shipping Methods:

B7) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?[Back]

A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]

(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier? [Back]

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

(B9) May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity? [Back]

Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2015, 09:43:05 AM by Mr. Farknocker »

pudgster

Re: Anything worthwhile checking out in Phoenix?
« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2015, 10:03:30 AM »
... a place in Ohio that was confused about Hawaii being a State.

 :wtf:

Kingkeoni

Re: Anything worthwhile checking out in Phoenix?
« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2015, 09:21:19 PM »
Partially correct...with regards to handguns. With shipping and transfer fees, I've yet to find a deal making the hassle worthwhile.

For a rifle or shotgun, you may purchase in any State as long as it is in person from a licensed dealer. Just present your ID(s) and long gun permit to acquire. I've done this many times in several States and the only issues I've ever had was with a national chain store with a policy of only dealing with contiguous states, a few LGS that erred on the side of caution because they weren't 100% positive on what is legal here and a place in Ohio that was confused about Hawaii being a State.

Actually completely correct from a legal perspective.


[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

(B2) From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA? [Back]

A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.


A Hawaii FFL is required to fax (or otherwise provide) the paperwork to HPD reporting the sale and delivery of a purchased firearm.
Does the mainland FFL know how to comply with this provision?
Not likely.

Therefore legally they have not complied with the applicable laws necessary to effect a firearm sale.
Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

Colt808

Re: Anything worthwhile checking out in Phoenix?
« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2015, 11:40:47 PM »
:wtf:
Shocking but it happens more often than one would expect, especially in more rural areas. And it doesn't help that our DL's are missing the word "State" or a State seal like most others. Having "USA" on the current version of our license helps, but rather than debate the issue or have them look it up, I've found it easier to provide a second form of identification.

Actually completely correct from a legal perspective.


[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

(B2) From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA? [Back]

A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.


A Hawaii FFL is required to fax (or otherwise provide) the paperwork to HPD reporting the sale and delivery of a purchased firearm.
Does the mainland FFL know how to comply with this provision?
Not likely.

Therefore legally they have not complied with the applicable laws necessary to effect a firearm sale.

Uh no...apples and oranges here, you're thinking of requirements for notification when there is a change of ownership under §134-2.  That applies to in State transfers. What you're calling "reporting of sale and delivery", is actually a dealer providing notification of transfer for a firearm they were required to register when brought in.

As far as legalities of out of State purchase from an licensed dealer (and compliance with Hawaii law), all one needs is the permit to acquire and then register within 72 hours of the firearms arrival.
Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it. ~Thomas Paine


And I still see stupid people.

Bigkahuna808

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Re: Anything worthwhile checking out in Phoenix?
« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2015, 09:35:07 AM »
Odd question.  Lets say i buy a stripped ar lower up there.   I assume  i have to lock it up like a regular firearm in hard transport case.

mauidog

Re: Anything worthwhile checking out in Phoenix?
« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2015, 10:18:00 AM »
Odd question.  Lets say i buy a stripped ar lower up there.   I assume  i have to lock it up like a regular firearm in hard transport case.

TSA site says firearm parts must be packed in checked baggage and declared.  Unloaded magazines must be either in a box or in a locked container with a declared firearm.  Scopes are allowed in carry-on. 

Nothing beyond that for parts that I can find.  Airlines can have their own rules, but TSA rules are usually incorporated.

If it were me, I'd treat it like a firearm if it is required to be registered as a firearm.  I'd lock it in an airline-approved firearm case and declare it.  That way it has less chance of walking away during transport.
An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.   -- Jeff Cooper