I'm Kaiser and I just applied for a permit to acquire a pistol last week, should i go down to hpd and ask if i need this clearance form? Or chance it and go try pick it up next week?

Play it safe, spare yourself the trouble/wasted gas and schedule an appointment with kaiser to get this letter.



I went in with exactly what I needed, per the instructions provided by HPDFD administration; no example was provided, but they told me what my documents needed to say. I went above and beyond to make sure it included everything outlined in HRS 134-7, to ensure there was no reasonable doubt that there was any reason I should be denied according to my doctor.

I came in with the documents, and they told me that I needed to use the letterhead format that they now have on hand, even though the documents I provided are worded essentially exactly the same.

When an officer said that my documents basically say the same thing that the letterhead does, the other officer said he isn't going to accept something unless it's exactly worded the way the letter is.

Hooray for HPD making up more bullshit rules as they go along.

Play it safe, spare yourself the trouble/wasted gas and schedule an appointment with kaiser to get this letter.



I went in with exactly what I needed, per the instructions provided by HPDFD administration; no example was provided, but they told me what my documents needed to say. I went above and beyond to make sure it included everything outlined in HRS 134-7, to ensure there was no reasonable doubt that there was any reason I should be denied according to my doctor.

I came in with the documents, and they told me that I needed to use the letterhead format that they now have on hand, even though the documents I provided are worded essentially exactly the same.

When an officer said that my documents basically say the same thing that the letterhead does, the other officer said he isn't going to accept something unless it's exactly worded the way the letter is.

Hooray for HPD making up more bullshit rules as they go along.

Got an example of what exactly it should say and look like? My primary physician retired a few years ago so I just picked the closest docter to me. Never actually had an appointment with him before. Hopefully he'll write the letter. Might just change insurance because of this.

Example is in 1st page

This will NOT work with kaiser's policy
Their policy is their doctors will not write a clearance letter
And this is written by kaiser
You have to see an outside doctor and pay out of pocket
I smell big big bullshit!

For the people that are concerned, if you applied prior to yesterday, the new changes do not affect you.

this is kaiser's letter:

Our Policy On Requests for Medical Clearance for Firearms Permits
Dear Member:
We have received your request or inquiry regarding a medical clearance in relation to an application for a firearms permit.
We are sorry to inform you that Kaiser Permanente physicians are unable to provide this type of evaluation. Typically these requests ask our doctors to state that a person “shall own, possess or control any firearm or ammunition” and that they are free of any issues that would preclude gun ownership. Our independent physicians in the Hawaii Permanente Medical Group do not feel that it is appropriate for physicians to give opinions on whether or not someone should own or possess a weapon or ammunition. In addition, Kaiser Permanente’s current benefit structure does not provide coverage for such types of evaluations.
You may choose to see an independent practitioner in the community, at your own expense, to provide an assessment regarding your capacity to obtain or operate a firearm. We will provide that practitioner with copies of your past medical and/or mental health records upon presentation of a properly executed authorization form.
We regret any inconvenience this may cause you.

from this letter, kaiser isn't making a decision one way or the other
so who's making that decision for denial based on medical or psychological basis, hpd?

This is what I have to do bc I got red flagged
I saw an outside psychologist and got the same letter done
Is this now for everyone even if they're not flagged?
Sounds like bs
Hopefully my letter will be honored by hpd, I just got it earlier this year and supposed to be good for a year

I was not red flagged.  The officer at the window took care to explain that to me.  FWIW the two officers at the window did seem sympathetic, but their hands are tied by the higher ups.

This being said I have to deal with it.  My PCP is with a Straub center, but I'm a HMSA member...........so yeah don't think for an instance that whoever pushed this policy through is not thinking about extending this to everyone.  Also as stated above the way the certification is phrased it is basically saying that you at some time in the past (even if you never have) were nuts.

In addition to this it will shift more of this onto the doctors.  So now HPD is trying to clog up your doctor's office.  I also have no doubt in my mind that they are also thinking that this would also mean more potential fees for you to have to make an appointment for your doctor to get this note.

For the people that are concerned, if you applied prior to yesterday, the new changes do not affect you.

True, however keep in mind that when you apply in the future regardless of it being for a pistol permit or a long rifle/shotgun, it may now apply to you. 

It is my firm belief that the person(s) pushing this agenda want to expand it to cover everyone.  If I was you and if I didn't have Straub/Kaiser I wouldn't be so sure that you won't get pulled into this in the future.

True, however keep in mind that when you apply in the future regardless of it being for a pistol permit or a long rifle/shotgun, it may now apply to you. 

It is my firm belief that the person(s) pushing this agenda want to expand it to cover everyone.  If I was you and if I didn't have Straub/Kaiser I wouldn't be so sure that you won't get pulled into this in the future.

This.  I think this exactly the plan

when you do go to a doctor to get the letter, also have him send an original to you as well as HPD
if HPD loses the original it is your responsability to go get another letter
if you also have an original, its good backup.

when you do go to a doctor to get the letter, also have him send an original to you as well as HPD
if HPD loses the original it is your responsability to go get another letter
if you also have an original, its good backup.

I bring the original & a copy.Show original(if asked) submit copy with application.Most likely HPD will NOT check records for your clearance letter from your doctor & tell you to come back with one

I went down this am and I am a Kaiser member. Here's the skinny.
In the past Kaiser sent the whole medical record to HPD. HPD says "we are not doctors can't read or understand what it says". True
"Our corporation attorney worded the document so that theres no doubt to the mental and drug related issues, not now not ever".
Kaiser's internal policy prohibits them from writing this type of letter. They will release medical info but not write a letter with the verbage required.
That leaves one option only. Find a doctor that has never seen you as a patient, doesn't know you from a hole in the ground, to give you a medical clearance letter. Really... how legal is that and what real doctor would want to stick their neck out.
It is very obvious that this letter is specifically meant to prevent one from acquiring as it presents hurdles that are insurmountable. Contact your politicians right away. Don't be a woose.

HPD has medical records of persons applying for a permit? Is that legal?

I went down this am and I am a Kaiser member. Here's the skinny.
In the past Kaiser sent the whole medical record to HPD. HPD says "we are not doctors can't read or understand what it says". True
"Our corporation attorney worded the document so that theres no doubt to the mental and drug related issues, not now not ever".
Kaiser's internal policy prohibits them from writing this type of letter. They will release medical info but not write a letter with the verbage required.
That leaves one option only. Find a doctor that has never seen you as a patient, doesn't know you from a hole in the ground, to give you a medical clearance letter. Really... how legal is that and what real doctor would want to stick their neck out.
It is very obvious that this letter is specifically meant to prevent one from acquiring as it presents hurdles that are insurmountable. Contact your politicians right away. Don't be a woose.

there's a post on the first page of this thread that has a thread started by "wolfwood", who is a 2a lawyer here in HNL that is pursuing these cases
please contact him

I am REALLY PISSED about this. While I have never been seen for any type of issue that would preclude me from obtaining a firearm, Kaiser is saying they won't deal with this issue so I am paying them and they are screwing me. I am supposed to pick up a permit to acquire a handgun this Friday. And my long gun permit expires next month. I guess this is the last gun I am ever going to get unless I pay to go to another doctor.

I am curious how this is going to work with my C&R? In the past I buy the gun and it is delivered to my front door. Then I take it down to HPD and register it. The request to the doctor is sent AFTER I register the gun and it is sitting in my safe. What are they going to do if it comes back negative? Come to my house and confiscate my gun(s)? would they confiscate just the one or all of them?

All this does is encourage law abiding citizens to make end runs around the law. Let's face it, in a long gun sale you have the gun and take it in to HPD to register it. I understand the consequences of not registering but what prevents someone from not registering the long gun? Same goes if one has a C&R FFL. Once someone obtains the gun (Pistol, revolver or long gun), HPD never knows you don't have it. I am not saying I am encouraging anyone to do this. I have never done it. But what is stopping someone from not registering their guns? 

When I go down to pick up my permit I will also try and renew my Long Gun Permit. I will get all the paperwork necessary and then call the lawyer.

But what is stopping someone from not registering their guns?

because no one on this forum does anything illegal...

this is kaiser's letter:

from this letter, kaiser isn't making a decision one way or the other
so who's making that decision for denial based on medical or psychological basis, hpd?

THIS is what concerns me and was something I had planned to ask about. Depression runs in my family and a suicide attempt several years back has been documented in my records.

It's also not uncommon for women to experience depression after having children due to hormone changes.

(With that said, after having my own kids it forced me to realize it's not just about me and I have a responsibility to be there for them. Period. I worked my okole off to make sure I never let myself get to that point again.)

I also believe that there is a HUGE difference between experiencing depression versus issues with aggression or psychosis.

I realize doctors don't want to stick their necks out, so then who makes the decision when they do that background check? Is HPD basically going to take a glance at my background check and automatically deny my PTA without context? (I know they'll deny me on the CC, but I am also worried about the PTA.)

I have medicare and tricare for insurance. Is it only Kaiser that people are having issues with now?

If this is the trend, we should also require everyone wanting to vote to pass a psych eval, as well as a current events test.  Surely we don't want the mentally ill and the uninformed to vote in our elections, do we?

Otherwise voters might be reduced to simply voting for a political party or gender, simply because they aren't capable of voting responsibly!

 

Is this confirmed that this is now happening to everyone with Straub and Kaiser ?

Might be a dumb question as it sounds confirmed, but I can't believe it as it sounds too far out of bounds.